When are we saved ?
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Its ' God does not change ' in the sense of his being and nature. Not in hes dealings with people and what he has had written down for us . It would be extra revelation . God spoke at those times for specific purposes . Through prophets and then apostles. The foundation is laid .There is no more written revelation. There is no reason to think God is audibly speaking to people today . Surely we would see this mentioned as an expectation. Paul would have mentioned it in at least one of his epistles?
Yes he wasn't wearing makeup lol .
God has always had a spokesperson to carry the message . Prophets ect . Then finally through his Son Jesus . And finally its Paul as the apostle to the gentiles . I don't see from the scriptures that God is still speaking ( or the Holy Spirt ) audibly today. Everything is now written.
God has always had a spokesperson to carry the message . Prophets ect . Then finally through his Son Jesus . And finally its Paul as the apostle to the gentiles . I don't see from the scriptures that God is still speaking ( or the Holy Spirt ) audibly today. Everything is now written.
His reason for speaking is always purposeful.
You may have no reason to think God still speaks to people.
I happen to differ
Please show me where Paul said God no longer speaks.
You may have no reason to think God still speaks to people.
I happen to differ
Please show me where Paul said God no longer speaks.
You are making the claim that God does not still speak to people. You cannot prove it, and in fact, have no way of proving it. It is simply something you choose to believe because God has not spoken to you. I have given the Scriptural basis for my belief, yet you reject it. You insist I give Scriptural proof of God still speaking, but then turn around and affirm, there are many things the Bible does not say.
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BenjaminN said:
Just sit back enjoy the God-given faith you have, and realise that it was a gift, you had nothing to do with receiving the gift.
Ephesians 2 (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
What is the gift referred to, according to you?
Just sit back enjoy the God-given faith you have, and realise that it was a gift, you had nothing to do with receiving the gift.
Ephesians 2 (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
What is the gift referred to, according to you?
Christ did not die for the whole world of mankind, but only the world of those that his Father gave him, and he says that he would not lose any of them, but raise them up at the last day. That sounds like eternal salvation for all that he died for, even saying, there would be no more sacrifice for sin, and that it is finished.
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L
I have told "throughfaith" many times that I have never read any of Calvin's writings, and consult only the scriptures in gleaning the truth, because scriptures prove scripture.
Christ's death on the cross was a sacrifice to God, for God's acceptance, and not for man's acceptance. After the sacrifice of Christ, God looks upon those that he died for, which consists of those that God gave him, and not the whole world of mankind, as holy, and without blame, as far as our eternal inheritance is concerned, even calling them kings and priests. and saying that there would be no more sacrifice for sin, and also saying it is finished.
What is your explanation, with scripture, in saying that man has to receive Christ's work on the cross, before our sins are forgiven?
You will never accept my interpretation of the scriptures, until you understand what salvation means according to the Greek interpretation, which means "a deliverance". There is an eternal deliverance, and there is a deliverance that the regenerated man receives as he sojourns here in this world.
There are more salvation scriptures that have reference to our deliverances that we receive here in this world, than there are that pertain to our eternal deliverance.
Most of God's well intended regenerated children fail to make the distinction between the different deliverances, and group them all as eternal deliverances, which tends to make them think that they have to do something in order to receive eternal deliverance.
Believing, accepting, and such other actions on man's part has to be categorized as "eternal salvation (deliverance) by good works."
2 Tim 2:13, If we believe not, yet he (Jesus) abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
Christ's death on the cross was a sacrifice to God, for God's acceptance, and not for man's acceptance. After the sacrifice of Christ, God looks upon those that he died for, which consists of those that God gave him, and not the whole world of mankind, as holy, and without blame, as far as our eternal inheritance is concerned, even calling them kings and priests. and saying that there would be no more sacrifice for sin, and also saying it is finished.
What is your explanation, with scripture, in saying that man has to receive Christ's work on the cross, before our sins are forgiven?
You will never accept my interpretation of the scriptures, until you understand what salvation means according to the Greek interpretation, which means "a deliverance". There is an eternal deliverance, and there is a deliverance that the regenerated man receives as he sojourns here in this world.
There are more salvation scriptures that have reference to our deliverances that we receive here in this world, than there are that pertain to our eternal deliverance.
Most of God's well intended regenerated children fail to make the distinction between the different deliverances, and group them all as eternal deliverances, which tends to make them think that they have to do something in order to receive eternal deliverance.
Believing, accepting, and such other actions on man's part has to be categorized as "eternal salvation (deliverance) by good works."
2 Tim 2:13, If we believe not, yet he (Jesus) abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
If you are referring to John 3:16, The world in this verse has to be "the world of believers"
Heb 12:6, For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. You have been taught, I presume, that God loves all mankind, and wants to save all mankind to eternal heaven, and this is the loving God that you want to serve, but the truth is that if he loved everyone, then he would chasten everyone.
Psalms 73, David was envious of the wicked because he saw the prosperity of the wicked, saying that there are no bands in their death; but their strength is firm. They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they "PLAGUED" (Greek=divinely punished) as other men.
verse 13, Verily I have cleansed my heart in vain, and washed my hands in innocency. 14, For all the day long have I been plagued, and chastened every morning.
God does not love all of mankind, and Jesus did not die for all mankind. Had he died for all mankind, then all mankind will be in heaven.
Heb 12:6, For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. You have been taught, I presume, that God loves all mankind, and wants to save all mankind to eternal heaven, and this is the loving God that you want to serve, but the truth is that if he loved everyone, then he would chasten everyone.
Psalms 73, David was envious of the wicked because he saw the prosperity of the wicked, saying that there are no bands in their death; but their strength is firm. They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they "PLAGUED" (Greek=divinely punished) as other men.
verse 13, Verily I have cleansed my heart in vain, and washed my hands in innocency. 14, For all the day long have I been plagued, and chastened every morning.
God does not love all of mankind, and Jesus did not die for all mankind. Had he died for all mankind, then all mankind will be in heaven.
The reason I say that we are not forgiven before we believe is because the Bible clearly states that justification is by faith. If justification is by faith, it follows that faith precedes forgiveness/justification.
I hold the view of Paul in Romans 8:28-30. Foreknown, predestined, called, justified, glorified.
I disagree with through faith because he puts predestination and calling after justification.
I disagree with you if you put forgiveness/justification before calling.
It’s God foreknew, predestined, called, justified, glorified in that order.
We are called, we believe, we are justified. In that order.
I hold the view of Paul in Romans 8:28-30. Foreknown, predestined, called, justified, glorified.
I disagree with through faith because he puts predestination and calling after justification.
I disagree with you if you put forgiveness/justification before calling.
It’s God foreknew, predestined, called, justified, glorified in that order.
We are called, we believe, we are justified. In that order.