When are we saved ?
- Thread starter throughfaith
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Where is it written that God does not speak to people???
Hint: nowhere is such a thing written.
I gave many Scriptural instances of Him doing so.
God does not change.
You are like an agnostic in that, since they do not know whether God exists, they claim nobody can know.
You know you said that calvinists don't say they were saved before they believed. Read# 1181
if you mean that Jesus went rouge and did his own thing ,then no . Three co equal, co eternal persons in one being = God
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EleventhHour
Guest
I don’t think he said saved before believed. I think he means in the sense that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. The work of reconciliation was accomplished at the cross, the message of reconciliation is preached, and those who believe receive the benefits of the work that Christ accomplished at the cross.
In the same way, the sin debt of ours was paid at the cross. Remission of sins is preached. Those who believe receive the benefits of the work that Christ did at the cross
But no. I don’t believe we are justified before we believe. That is not what Calvinism teaches.
If Jesus draws, or the Father draws, there is no scriptural basis to the claim that they do so independantly of the Spirit.
Jesus accomplished the full work of redemption. That redemption is preached in the world. Those who believe receive the benefits of that work that Christ accomplished about 2,000 years ago.
Ask him to clarify. But Calvinism does not teach saved before time, which is what you claimed and I disputed.
Our disagreement was regarding the premise “saved before time”. I said Calvinists do not teach this and you said some do. They don’t.
Posts 365 and 367
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EleventhHour
Guest
Since they are in fact chosen by God for salvation before time began they are in fact saved before time, because God has made the decision to save whomever He wants to save.
"In time" God forces regeneration and salvation.
AND the demonstration of the Spirit and power. 1 Corinthians 2:4