"What must I do to be saved?"

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studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,697
592
113
Was Demas a true Christian? Paul called him a fellow laborer.
No I do not believe Demas was a True Christian ------and I am not alone in this thought ---

Demas would have never left Paul who was a devout True Christian in his Time of Need -----if he was a true Christian ------

Like I said Many ---Many --Many people Call themselves Christians -----but Few are really True Christians

Many workers in the Church today are Not Born Again people -----they go to Church --they sing in the quire --they serve in the soup kitchens ----they read the scriptures on Sunday in Church ---but they have Not Received Jesus in their hearts and therefore are NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS -------

Many ---Many ---Many ----Priests ---Ministers --Pastors ----are preaching in Churches today who are definitely NOT Born Again People ----deceiving their Flock in the pews -----leaving then in the lurch to experience their eternal death ------and not caring about that -----

A true Christian will not want to go back to the life they had in the world once they have tasted and experienced the Blessings ---love ---mercy and grace of God ------that is my view ------


From Got Questions

Who was Demas in the Bible?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Demas-in-the-Bible.html

Demas had at one time been one of Paul’s “fellow workers” in the gospel ministry along with Mark, Luke, and others
(Philemon 1:24). During Paul’s first imprisonment in Rome, Demas was also in Rome (Colossians 4:14).

There is also biblical evidence that Demas was with Paul during Paul’s second imprisonment in Rome, at least for a while. Then something happened. Demas forsook Paul, abandoned the ministry, and left town. Paul wrote about the sad situation: “Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thessalonica” (2 Timothy 4:10).

The Greek verb used in the original implies that Demas had not merely left Paul but had left him “in the lurch”; that is, Demas had abandoned Paul in a time of need. The apostle was in prison, facing a death sentence, and that’s when Demas chose to set sail. Undoubtedly, Paul was deeply let down by Demas. It’s never easy to see a friend and associate in whom you’ve placed your trust forsake you in the midst of hardship.

The separation caused by Demas’ desertion of Paul was not merely spatial but spiritual. Demas left Rome because he fell in love with the world. In other words, Demas chose the corrupt value system of the unsaved world over what heaven values. As the NLT translates it, Demas “loves the things of this life” (2 Timothy 4:10). We don’t know the details of Demas’ situation, but it is evident that Demas decided that what Satan has to offer in this life is better than what God has to offer in the next.

Much can be said in support of the view that Demas, in love with the present world, was never a born-again believer in Jesus Christ. Paul makes a sharp contrast in 2 Timothy 4:8 and 10. In verse 8, Paul speaks of those who love the Lord: “There is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award . . . to all who have loved his appearing” (ESV). Demas, in contrast to those who love Jesus’ return, loved the present world (verse 10). First John 2:15 is clear about the spiritual state of those who love the world: “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.” Nowhere in the Bible do we read of the restoration of Demas.

The tragedy of Demas is still being lived out today by those who choose the temporary benefits of this world over the eternal riches of heaven.

Today there are still those who seem to receive the Word but then “the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful” (Matthew 13:22). Past service is no guarantee of future faithfulness; we must depend on the Lord, our Strength (Psalm 28:8). We must be born again (John 3:3); otherwise, we have no foundation of faith. “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us” (1 John 2:19; cf. Matthew 7:22–23).
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
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Sure. But we still have a tendency to return to old ways. Jesus found the disciples fishing after his resurrection. I think it's more than just backsliding. I think they have turned away altogether.
yet we are told he will never leave us nor forsake us.

we can't leave him..because wherever we go. there he is. and if we are his children, he will discipline us..
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
This one caught my eye. Bold statement. For me I just see texted to then judge base on some posts made its like taking a book and just reading this page jump to that page done I know what the books about. Silly I know haha. Its what you said "they are the lost sheep teaching false doctrines". Lost sheep and false doctrines. Would you care to share? Heard a prophet what 1950 something say "many different doctrines here but that does not touch salvation." Do you see?

Paul says to preach no other doctrine, than the doctrine that he taught, which is the doctrine of Christ.

Spiritual Israel, which is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9).

God blinded the eyes of most of spiritual Israel for turning away from him and worshiping idols (the lost sheep of the house of Israel), however, he left in the midst of them an poor and afflicted people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.

The remnant of Israel shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth, for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid. (Zeph 3:11-13).

Spiritual Israel is still God's people, although disobedient until they repent, and have the promise of eternal inheritance

The two gates, described in Matthew 7, harmonizes, the wide gate being the lost sheep of the household of Israel, and the straight gate being the remnant of the household of Israel, that leads to a bountiful, and joyful life as they sojourn here on earth.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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I submitted this reply on a similar topic but believe it's applicable here as well:
The Bible teaches that salvation is not a one time event, but a process. Salvation requires our action (Mk 1:15, 2 Cor 7:10 and many others teach/confirm this) - saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” Repentance is a prerequisite for salvation. We must repent of our worldly/sinful ways and commit to God's ways. To repent requires that we know what we are repenting of, our sins, which requires us to know what sin is - what God defines as sin. As 1 Jn 3:4 tells us, sin is the transgression of the law. Ez 18:21 (Acts 17:30) provides us this perspective, “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die". Paul tells us in Phil 2:12 to work out our salvation - "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling", The Messiah confirms all this in Rev 14:12, "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".

With all due respect, I think your whole mode of thought is thrown off by not recognizing that salvation=deliverance, saved=delivered, and save=deliver.

Eternal deliverance was a one time event that took place for all of those that God gave to his Son to redeem them from their sins on the cross. (John 6:39).

Those that were delivered on the cross, have many deliverances as they sojourn here on earth, by following God's commandments, and enjoying a good and peaceful life on earth.

When one of those that were delivered on the cross, commits a sin, they (die=separate) themselves from God's fellowship, temporary, until they repent. This is the salvation (deliverance) that Phil 2:12 is telling you to work out, not your eternal deliverance, because this deliverance is brought about by your good works.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,752
8,262
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Sure. But we still have a tendency to return to old ways. Jesus found the disciples fishing after his resurrection. I think it's more than just backsliding. I think they have turned away altogether.
Agree. The difference being that the Disciples truly loved Jesus and never "changed gods".
The Hebrew 6 apostates ("those, they, them") DID completely abandon Jesus and His Lordship.

The key to understanding Hebrews 6 is parsing the verses by the terms "ye, you", "we, us" and "they, them".
If you do that it all comes together very sensibly.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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If salvation is a process. We are prety much under law not under grace.

If it is a process. we will all fall short. Because Gods requirement is perfection.

Only Christ fulfilled that requirement

Salvation, according to Strong's concordance, means deliverance, in which "seeking-the-truth" fails to understand.

Eternal deliverance is a one time event that took place on the cross for all of those that God, by his grace, gave to Jesus (John 6:39

Those that he died for experience many deliverances as they sojourn here on earth by repenting, believing, confessing, which is all received by good works.

There is a deliverance (eternally) given by God's sovereign grace on the cross, and there many deliverances gaine to those he delivered eternally, by their good works, as we sojourn here on earth.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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Salvation is immediate but sanctification is a process until death or the rapture. The sanctification process does not mean we are not saved, just becoming more like Christ until we leave the sinful flesh body we are still in.

All of those that God gave to his Son, to redeem them from their sins by Christ's death on the cross (John 6:39) were, also, sanctified by his death (Heb 10:10).
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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yes,

we are justified or positionally sanctified in christ - a completed action

we are being sanctified conditionally every day we are alive.. - a work in process

not everyone will reach sup[er maturity, even the babe will be in heaven.

Sanctified, is being made holy, and that was accomplished on the cross, for all of those that God gave to his Son (John 6:39).
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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I could use some clarification as to how you set out to live your life after your repentance? Scripture clearly states that if we return to a life of unrepentant sin there is no hope. (Hebrews 6).

I believe that Hebrews 6 is referencing those that had once been revealed, and preached, the true doctrine of Christ, and had turned to preaching a false doctrine due to the love of money, can never be renewed to the true church that preaches the doctrine of Christ. They do, however, not lose their eternal inheritance, although they are a disobedient child of God. I have seen this happen.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
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Sanctified, is being made holy, and that was accomplished on the cross, for all of those that God gave to his Son (John 6:39).
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Sanctification is an ongoing process to those who were perfected forever (positional sanctification)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,891
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Shouldn't we leave "the Judgment of the heart, believing or not," to
The Righteous Judge? - Since:

ONLY God Knows the heart of Every man! (Acts 15:8; Romans 8:27)
In fairness, he was asked a direct question and gave his understanding. And while it is wise to leave final judgment to God, making functional judgments is helpful and necessary to all of life.
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
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No I do not believe Demas was a True Christian ------

................................

A true Christian will not want to go back to the life they had in the world once they have tasted and experienced the Blessings ---love ---mercy and grace of God ------that is my view ------
Disagree.

"True Christians" can get deceived into going back to the world. It does not mean they were never a "true Christian."

My bet is that Demas will be in the rapture. He may have lost rewards, but he'll be saved (1 Cor 3:10-15).

I do not believe that "a true Christian will not want to go back to the life they had in the world" is true.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,197
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Midwest
while it is wise to leave final judgment to God, making functional judgments is helpful and necessary to all of life.
"Functional judgments" of others' status of God's Salvation of/for them? OR:

"Functional judgments" of testing 'the doctrine(s)' that they 'are presenting to others'?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,798
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Disagree.

"True Christians" can get deceived into going back to the world. It does not mean they were never a "true Christian."

My bet is that Demas will be in the rapture. He may have lost rewards, but he'll be saved (1 Cor 3:10-15).

I do not believe that "a true Christian will not want to go back to the life they had in the world" is true.
Agree, except for the rapture part.:);)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,891
6,483
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"Functional judgments" of others' status of God's Salvation of/for them? OR:

"Functional judgments" of testing 'the doctrine(s)' that they 'are presenting to others'?
Both. The latter because we would want to help people to a fuller understanding of truth as well as a cessation of false belief. I don't believe those in error, for the most part, are intentionally twisting truth to cause harm, but are trying to help.
The former because we are called to give an answer for the hope that undergirds our faith. But we need to do it in a way that will meet people where they are.
When students change school districts in the old days they were given tests to assess their level of scholarship. Once known, it served as a level from which to continue their education. In like manner, if we are to assist individuals in furthering a relationship with God, we need to have some basis from which to begin.
Any evaluation on our part will be flawed for the reason you gave...we cannot see into the heart. Also, because our body of knowledge is limited. So we ought humbly and in recognition of our limitations proceed. But we should proceed.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,098
959
113
No I do not believe Demas was a True Christian ------and I am not alone in this thought ---

Demas would have never left Paul who was a devout True Christian in his Time of Need -----if he was a true Christian ------

Like I said Many ---Many --Many people Call themselves Christians -----but Few are really True Christians

Many workers in the Church today are Not Born Again people -----they go to Church --they sing in the quire --they serve in the soup kitchens ----they read the scriptures on Sunday in Church ---but they have Not Received Jesus in their hearts and therefore are NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS -------

Many ---Many ---Many ----Priests ---Ministers --Pastors ----are preaching in Churches today who are definitely NOT Born Again People ----deceiving their Flock in the pews -----leaving then in the lurch to experience their eternal death ------and not caring about that -----

A true Christian will not want to go back to the life they had in the world once they have tasted and experienced the Blessings ---love ---mercy and grace of God ------that is my view ------


From Got Questions

Who was Demas in the Bible?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Demas-in-the-Bible.html

Demas had at one time been one of Paul’s “fellow workers” in the gospel ministry along with Mark, Luke, and others
(Philemon 1:24). During Paul’s first imprisonment in Rome, Demas was also in Rome (Colossians 4:14).

There is also biblical evidence that Demas was with Paul during Paul’s second imprisonment in Rome, at least for a while. Then something happened. Demas forsook Paul, abandoned the ministry, and left town. Paul wrote about the sad situation: “Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thessalonica” (2 Timothy 4:10).

The Greek verb used in the original implies that Demas had not merely left Paul but had left him “in the lurch”; that is, Demas had abandoned Paul in a time of need. The apostle was in prison, facing a death sentence, and that’s when Demas chose to set sail. Undoubtedly, Paul was deeply let down by Demas. It’s never easy to see a friend and associate in whom you’ve placed your trust forsake you in the midst of hardship.

The separation caused by Demas’ desertion of Paul was not merely spatial but spiritual. Demas left Rome because he fell in love with the world. In other words, Demas chose the corrupt value system of the unsaved world over what heaven values. As the NLT translates it, Demas “loves the things of this life” (2 Timothy 4:10). We don’t know the details of Demas’ situation, but it is evident that Demas decided that what Satan has to offer in this life is better than what God has to offer in the next.

Much can be said in support of the view that Demas, in love with the present world, was never a born-again believer in Jesus Christ. Paul makes a sharp contrast in 2 Timothy 4:8 and 10. In verse 8, Paul speaks of those who love the Lord: “There is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award . . . to all who have loved his appearing” (ESV). Demas, in contrast to those who love Jesus’ return, loved the present world (verse 10). First John 2:15 is clear about the spiritual state of those who love the world: “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.” Nowhere in the Bible do we read of the restoration of Demas.

The tragedy of Demas is still being lived out today by those who choose the temporary benefits of this world over the eternal riches of heaven.

Today there are still those who seem to receive the Word but then “the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful” (Matthew 13:22). Past service is no guarantee of future faithfulness; we must depend on the Lord, our Strength (Psalm 28:8). We must be born again (John 3:3); otherwise, we have no foundation of faith. “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us” (1 John 2:19; cf. Matthew 7:22–23).
Demas who at one time a fellow labourer now loves this present world system does not undermined to lose his salvation but rather his reward. He certainly loses his reward but not his salvation.