What is the point in being a prophet?

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Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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It does matter if someone is using this verse as though it is talking about a sickness that they assume God wanted Paul to be left with and the gifts of the Spirit given to the church have expired, as you were claiming.
The Bible does not tell us exactly what Paul's thorn in the flesh was. ..
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Personally, I don't think you have it right regarding grace, since you believe grace is offered when it is earned rather than that it is always being offered to all to be simply received by faith without works.
Grace is earned????? I have no idea what you think I said would indicate that.
Grace is earned?????
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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Grace is earned????? I have no idea what you think I said would indicate that.
Grace is earned?????
Note! God does not tell Paul that grace is "unmerited favor."

"Unmerited favor" is a term that feels good to the emotions of those who want to settle for a simple answer.


Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:8-9

That tells us? Grace is God's power.

Power given to the believer, so that the believer can begin to function in a manner in God's power, in a way
that will merit favor with God!

When grace does its work in us? We become transformed into what merits God's favor!!!
Favour and grace are the same Greek word. (Charis) You denied that grace/favour is unmerited. That makes it merited. Merited means earned. Hence, I understood you as claiming that God's grace/favour is earned/merited.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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So what were you referring to as God snapping His fingers and taking away Paul's ability to heal?
The gift was given to heal others... as his sign of God's approval when he ventured out to evangelize and teach.
He had a bad reputation after having persecuting the church...
Have you not read of all the healings Paul was involved with when he was on the road?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Favour and grace are the same Greek word. (Charis) You denied that grace/favour is unmerited. That makes it merited. Merited means earned. Hence, I understood you as claiming that God's grace/favour is earned/merited.
But, you must look and see how Paul defined the grace that God empowered him with.
Paul plainly calls it " power." An, enabling power!

Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power
is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses,
so that Christ’s power may rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:8-9​

Weakness? Power to over come? Grace!


But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me
was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—
yet not I, but the grace (power) of God that was with me." 1 Corinthians 15:10​

You can't see that?

How was Paul able to work harder than the rest?
That takes enabling power!

Some of the exegesis you do is definitely enabled by grace! It takes mental power!

grace and peace ............
 

Ballaurena

Well-known member
May 27, 2024
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Matthew 7:22-23 is staring you right in the eye.

It says there will be those who will cast out demons and prophesy... and perform miracles!
But, it will be by the power of Satan - NOT GOD!
I'm just going to put this here:

Matthew 12:22-28 NASB1995
[22] Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. [23] All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?” [24] But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

[25] And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. [26] If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? [27] If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. [28] But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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But, you must look and see how Paul defined the grace that God empowered him with.
Paul plainly calls it " power." An, enabling power!

Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power
is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses,
so that Christ’s power may rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:8-9​

Weakness? Power to over come? Grace!


But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me
was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—
yet not I, but the grace (power) of God that was with me." 1 Corinthians 15:10​

You can't see that?

How was Paul able to work harder than the rest?
That takes enabling power!

Some of the exegesis you do is definitely enabled by grace! It takes mental power!

grace and peace ............
Yes. God's power is imparted to the believer by grace. I'm not sure how that is supposed to negate your assertion that -

"Note! God does not tell Paul that grace is "unmerited favor."

"Unmerited favor" is a term that feels good to the emotions of those who want to settle for a simple answer.


Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:8-9

That tells us? Grace is God's power.

Power given to the believer, so that the believer can begin to function in a manner in God's power, in a way
that will merit favor with God!

When grace does its work in us? We become transformed into what merits God's favor!!!"
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
Matthew 7:22-23 is staring you right in the eye.

It says there will be those who will cast out demons and prophesy... and perform miracles!
But, it will be by the power of Satan - NOT GOD!
WADR, Jesus does not say the miracles they did in His name were by the power of Satan. It's possible that Jesus still did the miracles even though the miracle workers were walking according to the flesh.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,412
532
113
I'm just going to put this here:

Matthew 12:22-28 NASB1995
[22] Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. [23] All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?” [24] But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

[25] And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. [26] If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? [27] If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. [28] But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
And knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste;
and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided
against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?


Jesus was speaking those words to Satan! For, surely Satan was watching in like a hawk!

Jesus was indirectly telling Satan and demons.. ... "When you start doing those things? You know your end is coming!"

For Satan is now with some, casting out his demons in the name of a deceptive counterfeit of Christianity.
Look at the crazy faith healers! The world mocks Christians because of them.


It's not complicated once you are shown how things are working....
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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For Satan is now with some, casting out his demons in the name of a deceptive counterfeit of Christianity. Look at the crazy faith healers! The world mocks Christians because of them.
Except they're not really casting out demons, it's all a show.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Except they're not really casting out demons, it's all a show.
The demons are coming out as a deception....
As we saw in the book of Job, Satan can inflict diseases when allowed to...

God is now giving Satan permission to work with people God has allowed to Satan.

Even the demons had to ask permission to enter the swine after leaving the demon possessed man called Legion.

What many have yet to realize that we are all part of a gigantic court case before the Supreme court of Heaven.

Satan asked for Job for a reason. Evidence 'A.'

Here! Satan had to get permission from God for Job!


Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job?
There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright,
a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.


“Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has?
You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread
throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has,
and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power,
but on the man himself, do not lay a finger.”

Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord."
(Job 1:8-12)

Every evil we see has been allowed by God.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,422
3,679
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The demons are coming out as a deception....
As we saw in the book of Job, Satan can inflict diseases when allowed to...

God is now giving Satan permission to work with people God has allowed to Satan.

Even the demons had to ask permission to enter the swine after leaving the demon possessed man called Legion.

What many have yet to realize that we are all part of a gigantic court case before the Supreme court of Heaven.

Satan asked for Job for a reason. Evidence 'A.'

Here! Satan had to get permission from God for Job!


Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job?
There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright,
a man who fears God and shuns evil.”


“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.

“Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has?
You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread
throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has,
and he will surely curse you to your face.”


The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power,
but on the man himself, do not lay a finger.”


Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord." (Job 1:8-12)

Every evil we see has been allowed by God.
Or it could just be a big show. Seems obvious to me.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Or it could just be a big show. Seems obvious to me.
Not according to how they will express them selves when facing the Lord.

They knew it was supernatural what was going on. So much so, they became delusional to imagine themselves to be great believers!

Look again...

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will
say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in
your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


If it was all a big fake? And, they knew it? They would have known their game was up when facing the Lord
who will confront them with His presence. You can't lie to the Lord.

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name
drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

If they knew it was all faked? And, not understood at least as some power and supernatural phenomena?
They would be ashamed to try to tell Him that! They would stand in silence knowing they had been exposed.

They were deceived dupes like those who followed these false leaders.

2 Timothy 3:12-13

In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

It's in the Word, awaiting to be uncovered and to be understood.

grace and peace ............
 

Brasspen

Active member
Sep 14, 2024
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There was so many posts I did not read them. But I still want to tell you, that when you have a prophecy, you talk about with the other church members, the church elders. They can through prophecy and other gifts, verfy if it's true from God. This is how your supposed to work with it.
 

Brasspen

Active member
Sep 14, 2024
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Scrolling up I seen some posts, but didn't read everything... The devil cannot have nothing from you, unless you give it to him. He is like a roarying lion, who has no teeth. Looking for people he can devour.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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its by beezlibub that he casts out demons


Some are big shows.... Imitating the counterfeits.
Amazingly, you use a term to describe Christians who believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today, that the Pharisees said about Jesus, who cast out a devil. Jesus said that was Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said the devil does Cast devil, or his house would not stand.

Your hate for others who are Believers in the Lord is very telling. You should be ashamed. I am leaving this discussion because it has crossed the line, and so have you.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Amazingly, you use a term to describe Christians who believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today, that the Pharisees said about Jesus, who cast out a devil. Jesus said that was Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said the devil doesn't Cast devil, or his house would not stand.

Your hate for others who are Believers in the Lord is very telling. You should be ashamed. I am leaving this discussion because it has crossed the line, and so have you.
 

sawdust

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Feb 12, 2024
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Amazingly, you use a term to describe Christians who believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today
No, he was describing unbelievers who think they are believers because they manage to "pull off" supernatural feats but are deceived.

What's amazing is you cannot comprehend what he is saying and constantly get it wrong then make your false accusations based on your erroneous perceptions.
 
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