What does "the coming of the Lord" in the NT refer to?

[Runningman]

He didn't say to revere/sanctify the Holy Spirit as Lord. In fact, NO verse says that or addresses the Holy Spirit as Lord.

You are barking up a very wrong tree.

Now you’re saying there’s no Biblical support to obey God’s Holy Spirit?

Romans 8:14
14For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

John 14:26
26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Galatians 5:16
16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

You’re barking up a very wrong tree by denying the authority of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Evmur]

Could you direct me to the verses where he taught this?


This isn't a rapture. This is the Second Advent.

The 2nd advent, quite so ... the Lord coming in the clouds and our going to meet Him. [my little heart will be raptured.] Only Paul and Jesus talk about the gathering.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No, apparently you don’t, otherwise you wouldn’t deny the Holy Spirit’s lordship.

WHEN you show me a verse that describes the Holy Spirit as Lord, then I'll believe your opinion.

The holy trinity is ONE. Holy Spirit exercises all of Christ’s power and authority in lieu of Christ.

"in lieu of"??? Huh? When do you think the Spirit takes over? When Jesus goes on vacation or something???

There is NO "in lieu of" here. You are just very very confused. And the Trinity is ONE in essence, not in Person.

Mark 3:28-29 - Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation

This doesn't support your opinion in any way.

Apparently you didn't read the context very well or at all. This verse is part of a text.

Here is the whole context:

While Jesus was performing great miracles, the Pharisees were observing all that and claiming that Jesus was performing the miracles by the power of Satan. iow, they were claiming that the power of the miracles were from Satan, and not God the Spirit.

These Pharisees were so hardened in their souls they simply REFUSED TO BELIEVE Jesus as Deity. So Jesus said that those who claim the power of the Spirit is really Satan have blasphemed the Spirit. And they will never be forgiven.

Anyone who refuses to believe WILL NEVER BE forgiven. That is the point.

btw, this verse is NOT in effect today. It specifically applied to those in Jesus' day who claimed Jesus was performing miracles by the hand of satan.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

2 Cor 3:17 describes the Holy Spirit as the Lord.

"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."

The Nicene Constantinopolitan Creed also declares the Holy Spirit is the Lord.

"We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father and and Son. Who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and Glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets".

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
He didn't say to revere/sanctify the Holy Spirit as Lord. In fact, NO verse says that or addresses the Holy Spirit as Lord.

You are barking up a very wrong tree.

Now you’re saying there’s no Biblical support to obey God’s Holy Spirit?

I've never even insinuated that.

However, show me where the Holy Spirit commands believers. Or as you say, "biblical support". Do you have any?

Romans 8:14
14For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

This isn't commanding. It is GUIDING. Do you know the difference? And Jesus referring to the Spirit as a Guide.

John 14:26
26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Again, this isn't about commanding, but rather TEACHING. Haven't you ever been in school and been taught by a teacher?

Galatians 5:16
16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Nope. This isn't being "commanded" either. It is about being LED by the Spirit. Rom 8:14.

You’re barking up a very wrong tree by denying the authority of the Holy Spirit.

I've never ever denied the authority of the Spirit. Your conclusions are ALWAYS phony.

I will wait for the verse that shows the Spirit commanding believers. You haven't shown one yet. As I've just shown.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Totally agreed. God’s Holy Spirit guides us and tells us what to do. We should always obey God’s Holy Spirit who will lead us in the right direction; that’s Lordship. I can’t believe He’s denying the Holy Spirit now.

I recommend that you read through the NT and count the times Jesus is called "the Lord Jesus". And count the times the Holy Spirit is addressed as Lord.

Then get back to me.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The 2nd advent, quite so ... the Lord coming in the clouds and our going to meet Him. [my little heart will be raptured.] Only Paul and Jesus talk about the gathering.

Do you believe there will be a trip to heaven in glorified bodies?

If so, what verse or passage makes that clear?

Thanks.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
He didn't say to revere/sanctify the Holy Spirit as Lord. In fact, NO verse says that or addresses the Holy Spirit as Lord.

You are barking up a very wrong tree.

I've never even insinuated that.

However, show me where the Holy Spirit commands believers. Or as you say, "biblical support". Do you have any?


This isn't commanding. It is GUIDING. Do you know the difference? And Jesus referring to the Spirit as a Guide.


Again, this isn't about commanding, but rather TEACHING. Haven't you ever been in school and been taught by a teacher?


Nope. This isn't being "commanded" either. It is about being LED by the Spirit. Rom 8:14.


I've never ever denied the authority of the Spirit. Your conclusions are ALWAYS phony.

I will wait for the verse that shows the Spirit commanding believers. You haven't shown one yet. As I've just shown.

You’re using dishonest tactics now to try to reframe what we’re talking about. You said that there are no verses that refer to the Holy Spirit as Lord.

Lord means someone or something having power, authority, or influence; a master or ruler.

As I have already showed you and you apparently rejected, the Holy Spirit leads us and teaches us as a source of authority, power, and influence. That makes the Holy Spirit our Lord. This isn’t supposed to be difficult to understand for people with the Spirit of God within them.

In fact, you’re probably one of the few people on this message board who would disagree with the status of Lord being assigned to the Holy Spirit of God. I would be surprised if anyone else rejected this fact.

 

[Runningman]

I recommend that you read through the NT and count the times Jesus is called "the Lord Jesus". And count the times the Holy Spirit is addressed as Lord.

Then get back to me.

You don’t understand. Yes Jesus is Lord. Again that means someone is your master or someone with power and authority over you. God the Father and the Holy Spirit are also your Lord. Is this true? The Bible doesn’t have to use the word “Lord” when the status of Lord is clearly implied, described, or demonstrated.

How long have you identified yourself as a Christian and didn’t know this?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

btw, this verse is NOT in effect today. It specifically applied to those in Jesus' day who claimed Jesus was performing miracles by the hand of satan.

Uh, so that's your angle ... bible's only partially relevant today, you can slice and dice it into different sections and pick your favorite? And Jesus is up in heaven preparing that mansion for his disciples, and you call that "vacation"? You're the one who's very confused, not me.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You’re using dishonest tactics now to try to reframe what we’re talking about.

Why don't you just leave all your ad hominem nastiness home and focus on what the Bible says? And you know that you can't prove your extremely FALSE charges.

You said that there are no verses that refer to the Holy Spirit as Lord.

I also asked you to prove that there are. And you didn't.

Lord means someone or something having power, authority, or influence; a master or ruler.

All the discussion was about the Spirit commanding people.

As I have already showed you and you apparently rejected, the Holy Spirit leads us and teaches us as a source of authority, power, and influence.

What you fail to understand is that leading and commanding are not the same.

That makes the Holy Spirit our Lord.

No, your opinion doesn't make anything true. Clear statements from the Bible are TRUE.

This isn’t supposed to be difficult to understand for people with the Spirit of God within them.

You can keep your nasty ad hominem to yourself.

In fact, you’re probably one of the few people on this message board who would disagree with the status of Lord being assigned to the Holy Spirit of God. I would be surprised if anyone else rejected this fact.

You are so confused and unhappy you simply cannot comprehend any of my posts. iow, you can't see straight when you read my posts.

You should calm down a lot, confess your hatred or whatever it is and focus on what the Bible says.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
btw, this verse is NOT in effect today. It specifically applied to those in Jesus' day who claimed Jesus was performing miracles by the hand of satan.

Uh, so that's your angle

OK, explain what my "angle" is.

... bible's only partially relevant today, you can slice and dice it into different sections and pick your favorite?

Sure, twist my words until they say something totally different than what I did say. Are you a democrat or something? That's what they do.

I explained WHY "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" cannot be committed today. Since you disagree, then prove how and why I am wrong.

That would mean proving that there are people alive on earth today who were alive and on earth in the day of Jesus and they SAW the miracles and claimed they were from the power of satan.

And Jesus is up in heaven preparing that mansion for his disciples, and you call that "vacation"?

Two things here: one, you have no sense of humor and fail to grasp sarcasm. Two, Jesus already went to heaven and His disciples are ALREADY in that mansion. Apparently you haven' read John 14:1-3 or simply accepted what some pastor might have said about it.

You're the one who's very confused, not me.

You have just proved the opposite.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

FreeGrace2 said:
btw, this verse is NOT in effect today. It specifically applied to those in Jesus' day who claimed Jesus was performing miracles by the hand of satan.

OK, explain what my "angle" is.


Sure, twist my words until they say something totally different than what I did say. Are you a democrat or something? That's what they do.

I explained WHY "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" cannot be committed today. Since you disagree, then prove how and why I am wrong.

That would mean proving that there are people alive on earth today who were alive and on earth in the day of Jesus and they SAW the miracles and claimed they were from the power of satan.


Two things here: one, you have no sense of humor and fail to grasp sarcasm. Two, Jesus already went to heaven and His disciples are ALREADY in that mansion. Apparently you haven' read John 14:1-3 or simply accepted what some pastor might have said about it.


You have just proved the opposite.

Your angle is exactly what I said, "slice and dice", taking the portions you deem applicable only and reject the other books because as you said, that's only for the Jews at Jesus's time! Well, actually, there were other examples such as Ananias and Simon the sorcerer who got punished by death for disobeying the Holy Spirit in Acts (5:1-11, 8:14-25), there's officially the "church age", and you're just in a state of denial just because it's against your false doctrine.

 

[Beckie]

The rapture comes after the resurrection. The resurrection occurs at His coming.

• we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

The Resurrection and Rapture are one event, in which the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain will be caught up together to be gathered unto the Lord in the air high above the earth in the clouds, safely in His presence and to remain with Him from now on.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Once the Lord has all His people together with Him safely above the earth, He will pour out the wrath of God upon the wicked who remain on earth, in which none of them will escape His wrath.



But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-3

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:4





JPT

Jesus said :
Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What comes after the last day?

 

[Runningman]

Runningman said:That makes the Holy Spirit our Lord.

No, your opinion doesn't make anything true. Clear statements from the Bible are TRUE.

Here you point-blank open your response with a blatant “No” to the Holy Spirit Being our Lord and I already proved that. The Holy Spirit is my Lord, but clearly He isn’t yours.

This is serious. You can’t be a Christian if you won’t submit to the authority of God’s Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your angle is exactly what I said, "slice and dice",

You have no clue.

taking the portions you deem applicable only and reject the other books because as you said, that's only for the Jews at Jesus's time!

I really really wish you'd at least read my whole post.

I pointed out what the Pharisees were doing about Jesus' miracles. Have you witnessed Jesus in the flesh performing miracles?

Well, actually, there were other examples such as Ananias and Simon the sorcerer who got punished by death for disobeying the Holy Spirit in Acts (5:1-11, 8:14-25),

Again, you seem to miss a lot. Simon the sorcerer didn't die. And there is no mention of him being punished. Please read Acts 8 thoroughly.

there's officially the "church age", and you're just in a state of denial just because it's against your false doctrine.

You are the denial one. Everything I pointed out is in the Bible. You just don't want to accept it.

Or, your reading skills have kept you from even reading the truth. Simon dying. That's a good one!!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Runningman said:That makes the Holy Spirit our Lord.


Here you point-blank open your response with a blatant “No” to the Holy Spirit Being our Lord and I already proved that.

Actually, you didn't prove your claim. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Peter commands believers to make Christ LORD. 1 Pet 3:21.

The Holy Spirit is my Lord, but clearly He isn’t yours.

I follow what Peter wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You may do your own thing.

This is serious.

I do believe that. Everything about the Bible is serious. We need to KNOW the truth.

You can’t be a Christian if you won’t submit to the authority of God’s Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God.

This demonstrates your utter confusion. Show me where salvation is dependent upon "submitting to the authority of God's Holy Spirit.

You can't be a Christian if you don't believe in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross in paying your sin debt and trusting in Him alone for salvation.

If one believes anything other than that, they are not saved.

When a jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved, Paul told him to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved.

What you opine isn't in the Bible. That should be a wake up call for you.

 

[Runningman]

Actually, you didn't prove your claim. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Peter commands believers to make Christ LORD. 1 Pet 3:21.


I follow what Peter wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You may do your own thing.


I do believe that. Everything about the Bible is serious. We need to KNOW the truth.


This demonstrates your utter confusion. Show me where salvation is dependent upon "submitting to the authority of God's Holy Spirit.

You can't be a Christian if you don't believe in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross in paying your sin debt and trusting in Him alone for salvation.

If one believes anything other than that, they are not saved.

When a jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved, Paul told him to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved.

What you opine isn't in the Bible. That should be a wake up call for you.

Now you’re telling people to not believe the Holy Spirit is our Lord. Again, Lord just means master or someone with authority. This is very simple: the Holy Spirit is God and God has authority over His people or do you reject that too?

So far we’ve firmly established you don’t believe the Holy Spirit is your master and therefore you seem to reject the Holy Spirit as being God too yet you claim to be a Christian.

Let me ask you some questions. Do you think Jesus would reject the Holy Spirit as God or His Lord when the Bible actually calls God Lord in many places?

Now I’m taking you back to Sunday school to learn something:

Matthew 22:43,44
43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Luke 24:49
49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 1:8
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 4:7,8
7And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? 8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost…

As you can see here, power and authority comes from the Holy Spirit because God’s Holy Spirit is a source of authority. That makes the Holy Spirit Lord of us Christians. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is also our Lord and so is His Father. They’re all our Lord, but One at Godhead at the same time.

Now I just have to know and would love to see you confirm or deny one way or another: Do you reject the Trinity too?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Now you’re telling people to not believe the Holy Spirit is our Lord.

Are you offended with what Peter commands believers to do?

Again, Lord just means master or someone with authority.

I don't find any commands coming from the Holy Spirit in the Bible.

This is very simple: the Holy Spirit is God and God has authority over His people or do you reject that too?

Don't be ridiculous. My position has been clear all along. All 3 members of the Trinity have the same essence. Do you understand that?

So far we’ve firmly established you don’t believe the Holy Spirit is your master and therefore you seem to reject the Holy Spirit as being God too yet you claim to be a Christian.

Your conclusions are beyond ridiculous.

Let me ask you some questions. Do you think Jesus would reject the Holy Spirit as God or His Lord when the Bible actually calls God Lord in many places?

Actually, the Bible is clear that Jesus considers His Father as His Lord.

Now I’m taking you back to Sunday school to learn something:

Matthew 22:43,44
43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

OK, so you don't understand what David meant then. In v.44, The first "LORD" refers to the Father, and the second "Lord" refers to Jesus.

So, no wonder you are so confused.

Luke 24:49
49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 1:8
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 4:7,8
7And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? 8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost…

As you can see here, power and authority comes from the Holy Spirit

None of these verses even mention 'authority'. So read them again. Power, yes, but no mention of authority.

because God’s Holy Spirit is a source of authority.

You still haven't shown that. And it seems you strongly disagree with Peter's command in 1 Pet 3:15.

That makes the Holy Spirit Lord of us Christians.

The Bible says that Jesus is Lord.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is also our Lord and so is His Father. They’re all our Lord, but One at Godhead at the same time.

Yes, the Bible describes both Father and Son as Lord.

Now I just have to know and would love to see you confirm or deny one way or another: Do you reject the Trinity too?

If you don't know by now that I have told you that the Father Son and Holy Spirit, the Trinity, all have the same essence, then there is no reason to have any kind of conversation with you. Because you are just not really paying attention.

Your goofy questions reveal your agenda of ad hominem towards others.

 

[Runningman]

Are you offended with what Peter commands believers to do?


I don't find any commands coming from the Holy Spirit in the Bible.


Don't be ridiculous. My position has been clear all along. All 3 members of the Trinity have the same essence. Do you understand that?


Your conclusions are beyond ridiculous.


Actually, the Bible is clear that Jesus considers His Father as His Lord.


OK, so you don't understand what David meant then. In v.44, The first "LORD" refers to the Father, and the second "Lord" refers to Jesus.

So, no wonder you are so confused.


None of these verses even mention 'authority'. So read them again. Power, yes, but no mention of authority.


You still haven't shown that. And it seems you strongly disagree with Peter's command in 1 Pet 3:15.


The Bible says that Jesus is Lord.


Yes, the Bible describes both Father and Son as Lord.


If you don't know by now that I have told you that the Father Son and Holy Spirit, the Trinity, all have the same essence, then there is no reason to have any kind of conversation with you. Because you are just not really paying attention.

Your goofy questions reveal your agenda of ad hominem towards others.

You said the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are “of the same essence” totally dodging the question. You boast about only believing in Biblical things, but you strain and gnat and swallow a camel. Nothing you’re arguing for is Biblical. The Holy Spirit is a Lord and the Holy Spirit is God.

There’s no verse that says they are “of the same essence.” Clearly you aren’t eager to refer to the Holy Spirit as God.

You seem to really have no idea who the God of the Bible is or why you believe what you do. You certainly didn’t get this from the Bible. That’s some home-brewed new age religion material you’re displaying.