What does "the coming of the Lord" in the NT refer to?
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Paul is teaching the same exact event in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:4 and
2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.
Both of these passages contextually pertain to the coming of the Lord. The coming of the Lord is the Day of the Lord; the Day of Christ.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
JPT
I apologise to everyone. They are indeed the same event.
I ought to have learned by now not to quote by memory which in my case has always been faulty.
The different events I am alluding to is the coming of the Lord for His saints and the end of the world, the loud bangs, fervent heat to the melting of the elements etc. The final resurrection and last judgement. These are two different events.
I ought to have learned by now not to quote by memory which in my case has always been faulty.
The different events I am alluding to is the coming of the Lord for His saints and the end of the world, the loud bangs, fervent heat to the melting of the elements etc. The final resurrection and last judgement. These are two different events.
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FreeGrace2 said:
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs at the moment of faith. It is not described as the "coming of the Lord".
The Holy Spirit is never called "Lord".
You are not excused. The word "Lord" is never used to describe the Spirit.
Are you saying the Holy Spirit IS the Lord then?
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs at the moment of faith. It is not described as the "coming of the Lord".
The Holy Spirit is never called "Lord".
You are not excused. The word "Lord" is never used to describe the Spirit.
Are you saying the Holy Spirit IS the Lord then?
Only Paul taught the Rapture.
Jesus and Paul of course. They both speak about the coming again of the Lord and the signs of His coming in terms of childbirth and birth pangs, It's not the end of the world but a new beginning, a new age.
The other apostle's understanding was quite difference, they speak of loud bangs and fervent heat to the melting away of the elements while Paul speaks of the creation being SET FREE from it bondage to decay. It is not a discrepancy or a contradiction, both are right, only the timing is different.
The other apostles thought they WERE the reign of Christ with His saints, the new age was begun and they were the kings and priests of it, just waiting for the Lord to come back and take over.
Paul had a revelation different, he knew that the Jews were to be diminished and set aside in the things of God until the Gentiles be brought in. Paul knew that the church was to planted among the heathen nations ... something unthinkable to the Jews. Talking direct reference to the Day of the Lord Peter writes that our beloved Paul writes in all his letters about it things that be very difficult to understand.
Amillennialism follows the Jewish understanding ... Amills almost never speak about the Rapture or outright deny it.
It's the church being planted among the nations that necessitates the Rapture, because God cannot deal with the unrepentant nations while the church is here among them. This is the great mystery Paul says was revealed to him "Christ IN YOU [the church] the hope of glory" among the nations.
"the hope of glory" is synonymous with the 1, 000 year reign.
Jesus and Paul of course. They both speak about the coming again of the Lord and the signs of His coming in terms of childbirth and birth pangs, It's not the end of the world but a new beginning, a new age.
The other apostle's understanding was quite difference, they speak of loud bangs and fervent heat to the melting away of the elements while Paul speaks of the creation being SET FREE from it bondage to decay. It is not a discrepancy or a contradiction, both are right, only the timing is different.
The other apostles thought they WERE the reign of Christ with His saints, the new age was begun and they were the kings and priests of it, just waiting for the Lord to come back and take over.
Paul had a revelation different, he knew that the Jews were to be diminished and set aside in the things of God until the Gentiles be brought in. Paul knew that the church was to planted among the heathen nations ... something unthinkable to the Jews. Talking direct reference to the Day of the Lord Peter writes that our beloved Paul writes in all his letters about it things that be very difficult to understand.
Amillennialism follows the Jewish understanding ... Amills almost never speak about the Rapture or outright deny it.
It's the church being planted among the nations that necessitates the Rapture, because God cannot deal with the unrepentant nations while the church is here among them. This is the great mystery Paul says was revealed to him "Christ IN YOU [the church] the hope of glory" among the nations.
"the hope of glory" is synonymous with the 1, 000 year reign.
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You're foolish but professing to be wise. Jesus said it repeatedly to His disciples that he must leave FOR THEIR BENEFITS, and he is in heaven with God, witnessed by Stephen the Martyr. What He left for the church and what he promised to come was the Holy Spirit, and wherever the Holy Spirit dwells in, God is present.
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Thank you for your opinion.
Of course. The Bible says so. Do you think I don't believe that?
Sure. So, what is your point again?
Do you really not know or understand what Peter said in 1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
He didn't say to revere/sanctify the Holy Spirit as Lord. In fact, NO verse says that or addresses the Holy Spirit as Lord.
You are barking up a very wrong tree.
Of course. The Bible says so. Do you think I don't believe that?
Sure. So, what is your point again?
Do you really not know or understand what Peter said in 1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
He didn't say to revere/sanctify the Holy Spirit as Lord. In fact, NO verse says that or addresses the Holy Spirit as Lord.
You are barking up a very wrong tree.
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No, apparently you don’t, otherwise you wouldn’t deny the Holy Spirit’s lordship. The holy trinity is ONE. Holy Spirit exercises all of Christ’s power and authority in lieu of Christ.
Mark 3:28-29 - Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation
Mark 3:28-29 - Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation
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