What does Matthew 5:28-30 mean If we are truly saved by faith?

[JesusIsAll]

As to the self mutilation comments, Jesus was not telling us to literally self mutilate, do violence to ourselves, rather using strong examples to point out the dire seriousness of the sin problem and our need for a solution.

Or one could say, obviously, some work of the flesh, plucking out an eye or chopping off a hand, could never save, and a blind man could be unsaved, who can actually see nothing, visually, to lust after. Otherwise, the gospel would be commands to mutilate ourselves, and our Lord would have never had to come to earth and die for our sin.

 

[Flamingspirit]

ANY violation of the seventh Commandment.

That's not an answer. In school your teacher would give you an "F." What would God give you?

 

[john832]

That's not an answer. In school your teacher would give you an "F." What would God give you?

Hmmm, I am not being judged by your teacher. God considers sex outside of marriage a violation of the seventh Commandment.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Hmmm, I am not being judged by your teacher. God considers sex outside of marriage a violation of the seventh Commandment.

Did Abraham break it, then??? Where is he at??? I wish we would think about these things!

How about Jacob? In our society today, we'd say he has two main and two side chicks (slang ladies)! How would you view this man if he was alive today?

You'd more than likely condemn him in your view of the commandment. But despite that, you seem to give him and his illegitimate children a pass. Why? Oh cause the bible says so! But where does that leave everyone else in the same situation. According to you burning in hell!

I don't get it.....

 

[Angela53510]

You post "All we need to do is accept Christ and repent and ask for forgiveness when we sin."

What if the Christian does not repent and ask forgiveness but keeps on lusting?

Then the person is not really a Christian are they?

"37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:37-38

 

[Sophia]

What if I stumble because of a sin... literally, and then die immediately when I hit the ground? (Maybe I was checking out a guy and fell down some stairs because I wasn't looking where I was going) I couldn't repent because I was dead. Am I going to be forgiven?
Let's say it was willfully, as in I was convicted immediately but looked anyway. Let's say it was an ongoing sin, as in I was continually struggling with this lust issue, and constantly repenting and failing, over and over.
Maybe someone would need to offer some hail Marys for me at my funeral, or pay some indulgences, or maybe I'd have to work that one off in purgatory.

 

[JesusIsAll]

What if I stumble because of a sin... literally, and then die immediately when I hit the ground? (Maybe I was checking out a guy and fell down some stairs because I wasn't looking where I was going) I couldn't repent because I was dead. Am I going to be forgiven?
Let's say it was willfully, as in I was convicted immediately but looked anyway. Let's say it was an ongoing sin, as in I was continually struggling with this lust issue, and constantly repenting and failing, over and over.
Maybe someone would need to offer some hail Marys for me at my funeral, or pay some indulgences, or maybe I'd have to work that one off in purgatory.

Suggestion? Read Romans chapters 7 and 8, if necessary over and over. It's all there.

 

[Sophia]

I'm sorry for the sarcasm in the last post. Sarcasm doesn't help anything. The point is that Grace is sufficient, and Faith is not fickle. We aren't in a tug-o-war between saved and unsaved. We have assurance in the faithfulness of Christ, and in the power of His Holy Spirit working within us.
Salvation is set from before the foundations of the world were laid, and realized at our conversion, and to be actualized at His Return. We follow the Call, because we recognize it, because we are His. Why do we need to clarify what God said clearly?
We are to encourage each other to continue on in good works, not intimidate each other to continue on in good works.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I'm sorry for the sarcasm in the last post. Sarcasm doesn't help anything. The point is that Grace is sufficient, and Faith is not fickle. We aren't in a tug-o-war between saved and unsaved. We have assurance in the faithfulness of Christ, and in the power of His Holy Spirit working within us.
Salvation is set from before the foundations of the world were laid, and realized at our conversion, and to be actualized at His Return. We follow the Call, because we recognize it, because we are His. Why do we need to clarify what God said clearly?
We are to encourage each other to continue on in good works, not intimidate each other to continue on in good works.

Oh! The whole post was sarcastic? "I see," said the blind man. Okay, then. All you modern day Pharisees could use Romans 7 and 8, at any rate!

 

[kennethcadwell]

What if I stumble because of a sin... literally, and then die immediately when I hit the ground? (Maybe I was checking out a guy and fell down some stairs because I wasn't looking where I was going) I couldn't repent because I was dead. Am I going to be forgiven?
Let's say it was willfully, as in I was convicted immediately but looked anyway. Let's say it was an ongoing sin, as in I was continually struggling with this lust issue, and constantly repenting and failing, over and over.
Maybe someone would need to offer some hail Marys for me at my funeral, or pay some indulgences, or maybe I'd have to work that one off in purgatory.

You were not constantly living in that sin, so it will not cost you your salvation but it most likely will cost you on rewards.
Like JesusIsAll said read Romans 7 and 8 it is all there. Nobody is held to condemnation unless your life is controlled by that sin, what you said is a backslide and for given no chance to repent because you died immediately after.
This also holds true to those who repented and then died before being able to do anything else. Lord Jesus will know your heart, and have mercy on you as He said.
The willful sin the bible speaks of is a constant rejection of the Lord our God by our sins. Not a slip up here or there, but the bible makes it clear that if you have time to obey all His commands and you refuse to do it, then that is a sin as well.


The chances are if you are a true believer in the Lord our God, you will feel the conviction from the Holy Spirit immediately leading you to repent. Unless that sin kills you immediately.

 

[JesusIsAll]

The chances are if you are a true believer in the Lord our God, you will feel the conviction from the Holy Spirit immediately leading you to repent. Unless that sin kills you immediately.

In fact, just that Christians fight this fight, strive against sin and are convicted in conscience, is evidence of the Holy Spirit working within us. It's sort of like that question from an agonized person you sometimes hear, "Did I commit the unpardonable sin?" If their conscience is agonizing over this, it's evidence of a spiritual consciousness quite alive and concerned for the things of God. Paul spelled-out just this agony in Romans 7.

 

[kennethcadwell]

In fact, just that Christians fight this fight, strive against sin and are convicted in conscience, is evidence of the Holy Spirit working within us. It's sort of like that question from an agonized person you sometimes hear, "Did I commit the unpardonable sin?" If their conscience is agonizing over this, it's evidence of a spiritual consciousness quite alive and concerned for the things of God.

Exactly true, if you feel the conviction that is the Holy Spirit telling you to repent of that sin.
And even before you commit that sin you will hear the Holy Spirit telling you not to, but the choice is still yours to obey or not to obey. If you constantly disobey the Holy Spirit's guidance, then that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. For if you deny the Holy Spirit, then in turn you deny the Lord, and if you deny the Lord you deny the Father.

 

[newbirth]

Matthew 5:28-30:

Adultery
…28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30"If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.



Let me first say that I am a firm believer in OSAS and it is by faith that you saved. But no matter how many times I read this is always concerns me in the back of my mind. When I read this it makes it sound like you can lose or forfeit your salvation.

Can anyone explain this to me?

let me say this ...you must first be a firm believer in Christ...and we are saved by grace through faith....and you are correct...because God has shown it to you....you can lose or forfeit your salvation.
1 Corinthians 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[newbirth]

This is talking about purging all willful sin from you.
Until your full repentance is complete to where your willful sins you walk in are turned from and stopped then you are not saved yet. You are still in spiritual death until those sins are purged, and kept from controlling you again.
This goes also along with what the Lord said also in the first verse (28), your lust when you look on another and have sexual thoughts and feelings about them. You must deal with that lust, and allow the Holy Spirit to help you control your feelings so that it can not become full grown in you again.

bro that is not scripture you are teaching...what do you mean ???you are not saved yet.....you think remission of sins means you were not purged from sins....you think someone can fool God...if the heart is not repentant then that one has lied to God...if the heart is repentant and the believer remains in fellowship with Christ the blood of Jesus cleanse him from sin...The HS giving him power to say no to sin....any man who sins it is either in ignorance or he chooses to follow after his lust and is enticed and the fruit of that is sin...there is no temptation that comes to us that we cannot bear.....and with it God makes a way of escape...that takes care of sin

Sin is always a battle we face while we are in the flesh, it wars with our spiritual mindset we walk in as Paul showed us in Romans 7. Then in Hebrews 3 and 6 we see that even we who become partakers in Christ, and receive the Holy Spirit can fall back to willful sin.

Did not Christ conquer sin...why are we still fighting a defeated foe....the word says we war not against flesh and blood...it is against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places...if one cannot trample upon sin who is already defeated...how can you do battle with principalities and powers in high places??

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.


Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.


I don't take this literally that you are to actually cut off, or pluck out parts of your body. To me it is addressing how serious even one willful unrepented sin is, because all it takes is one to be cast into the lake of fire. We must personally deal with our own sins, before we can truly help others with theirs.

if the brother is in fellowship with Christ and is being renewed by the word sin is not an issue...

 

[GuessWho]

Matthew 5:28-30:

Adultery
…28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30"If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Jesus Christ was teaching the Jews that the Law says to not commit adultery but He raised the Law to a higher degree and said that whoever looked at a woman with lust already committed adultery in his heart.
We know that the Pharisees were a Law-based sect (actually, all the Jews had respect for the Law, but the Pharisees emphasized the Law more than any other Jew; the Pharisees sought a spiritual revival through the Law). In this context, Jesus Christ is "more Pharisee than a Pharisee" by taking the commandment (from the Jewish Law) of not committing adultery and making it more difficult and placing the issue in the heart of the man. It is the heart that needs to be cleansed first. While the Law does have the purpose to purify you, it can not do much if your heart is not cleaned. The Law can not solve the problem of the heart.

Let me first say that I am a firm believer in OSAS and it is by faith that you saved. But no matter how many times I read this is always concerns me in the back of my mind. When I read this it makes it sound like you can lose or forfeit your salvation.

There is absolutely nothing in the 1st century Judaism or in the early christianity that encourages you to be a firm believer in the OSAS. Apostasy is still possible and is, unfortunately, very real.

 

[kennethcadwell]

bro that is not scripture you are teaching...what do you mean ???you are not saved yet.....you think remission of sins means you were not purged from sins....you think someone can fool God...if the heart is not repentant then that one has lied to God...if the heart is repentant and the believer remains in fellowship with Christ the blood of Jesus cleanse him from sin...The HS giving him power to say no to sin....any man who sins it is either in ignorance or he chooses to follow after his lust and is enticed and the fruit of that is sin...there is no temptation that comes to us that we cannot bear.....and with it God makes a way of escape...that takes care of sin




Did not Christ conquer sin...why are we still fighting a defeated foe....the word says we war not against flesh and blood...it is against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places...if one cannot trample upon sin who is already defeated...how can you do battle with principalities and powers in high places??




if the brother is in fellowship with Christ and is being renewed by the word sin is not an issue...

True repentance of sins shows in your actions.
If you are trying to stop or have stopped your sins, that shows a true repentance and is biblical.

Jesus defeated sin by giving us a way to be forgiven of it, and reconciled to God. We have to repent and turn from those sins, and be baptized for that forgiveness. Future sins still count against us unless we ask forgiveness of them to when they happen. The two scriptures I gave from Hebrews clearly shows that those people are partakers in Christ, and have received the Holy Spirit yet still turned back to willful sin.

Plus does Jesus teach we are saved immediately, or does He say we are saved after we have endured to the end ?
Lets see what He said;


Matthew 24:10-13


And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.




Matthew 10:22


And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


Mark 13:9-13


“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


If it applies to the Apostles/disciples before us, and applies to believers after us, then it applies to us as well.

 

[Radius]

True repentance of sins shows in your actions.
If you are trying to stop or have stopped your sins, that shows a true repentance and is biblical.

Jesus defeated sin by giving us a way to be forgiven of it, and reconciled to God. We have to repent and turn from those sins, and be baptized for that forgiveness. Future sins still count against us unless we ask forgiveness of them to when they happen. The two scriptures I gave from Hebrews clearly shows that those people are partakers in Christ, and have received the Holy Spirit yet still turned back to willful sin.

Plus does Jesus teach we are saved immediately, or does He say we are saved after we have endured to the end ?
Lets see what He said;


Matthew 24:10-13


And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.




Matthew 10:22


And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


Mark 13:9-13


“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


If it applies to the Apostles/disciples before us, and applies to believers after us, then it applies to us as well.

You do NOT have to be baptized to be forgiven. The thief on the cross was not baptized.

 

[Radius]

so according to Kennith, and I just want to get this right...is that if you should die while in a backsliding sin, you will go to hell even though you were a believer?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

one must remember Like most legalistic doctrines, you either have to water down the law so you can follow it, or change the law so it does not condemn you as much.

the pharisees were masters of this. So jesus spent this time destroying their version of the law.

When jesus said, you have heard. he is speaking of what the teachers of the law said.

He is showing everyone their interpretation of the law is wrong. It is far greater than that, If we see the law as Jesus sees it, we will know we are condemned by it, and seek the only things which can save.

The pharisees did not look at Christ, because they thought they were righteous, if they saw the law for what it was they would realise the law could never save them

 

[kennethcadwell]

You do NOT have to be baptized to be forgiven. The thief on the cross was not baptized.

so according to Kennith, and I just want to get this right...is that if you should die while in a backsliding sin, you will go to hell even though you were a believer?

The thief on the cross is an example of one who repents at the end of their life, not one who lives long enough to show their obedience by their deeds because of love for Him.
This does not give an out for somebody to be disobedient the rest of their life, and say I don't have to.
Paul shows us this in Romans when he talks about the same issue, and he tells them does this give us a right to keep on sinning, " Certainly Not. "
He says that because of the dangers to ones salvation if they continue to sin and deny the Lord their God in their actions.
He then confirms this in his epistle to Titus;

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate