What Changed?
- Thread starter BillyBob
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God is the cause for what the fallen nature has become. But, not the cause for needing it.
Just like God is the cause for what rotting meat, he did not create meat to be rotting.
The cause for it was sinless Adam desiring to reject God's order.
If God were the cause? There would have been no need for Adam to fall.
Just the same... God took the responsibility for the consequences of Adam falling.
That was fulfilled on the Cross by Jesus bearing the unspeakable agonies that we will never have to face.
In the mean while?
Its Romans 8:28.
God is now working all things together for the good for those who love Him.
And, because of man being fallen...
God using fallen man as a perfect example for the angels to learn from about righteousness and evil.
While angels observe man's example of redemption and salvation?
God is making use of fallen man and God's redemption to make His enemies into His footstool.
All things are working together for good, even though we may be failing to see that at this time.
Just like God is the cause for what rotting meat, he did not create meat to be rotting.
The cause for it was sinless Adam desiring to reject God's order.
If God were the cause? There would have been no need for Adam to fall.
Just the same... God took the responsibility for the consequences of Adam falling.
That was fulfilled on the Cross by Jesus bearing the unspeakable agonies that we will never have to face.
In the mean while?
Its Romans 8:28.
God is now working all things together for the good for those who love Him.
And, because of man being fallen...
God using fallen man as a perfect example for the angels to learn from about righteousness and evil.
While angels observe man's example of redemption and salvation?
God is making use of fallen man and God's redemption to make His enemies into His footstool.
All things are working together for good, even though we may be failing to see that at this time.
It was God's will to have the effects of Adam's sin to stand.
Adam caused it.
God caused what Adam did by falling for the fallen angels to have something they would attack - condemn - and judge themselves with.
When it says... "judge not lest ye be judged?"
When Satan condemns the actions of fallen men? He in effect, is condemning the very nature that he was the father of.
In doing so, Satan is agreeing that he is also worthy of punishment for doing the same things.
It's a neat trick by God to get Satan to condemn himself by what God condemns, thus admitting that God was right in His judgment of fallen angels.
The way God has to protect and spare us from such judgment? The Cross!
Adam caused it.
God caused what Adam did by falling for the fallen angels to have something they would attack - condemn - and judge themselves with.
When it says... "judge not lest ye be judged?"
When Satan condemns the actions of fallen men? He in effect, is condemning the very nature that he was the father of.
In doing so, Satan is agreeing that he is also worthy of punishment for doing the same things.
It's a neat trick by God to get Satan to condemn himself by what God condemns, thus admitting that God was right in His judgment of fallen angels.
The way God has to protect and spare us from such judgment? The Cross!
How about inherited instead of "transfer"?
Where is this idea of Adam's guilt found in scripture? Why not keep it simple? Adam is guilty of his own sin and for the fall of mankind, since he is the federal head of all fallen humanity. Adam's sin is imputed to all who are born into this world (cf. Rom 5:12ff.).
Where is this idea of Adam's guilt found in scripture? Why not keep it simple? Adam is guilty of his own sin and for the fall of mankind, since he is the federal head of all fallen humanity. Adam's sin is imputed to all who are born into this world (cf. Rom 5:12ff.).
The ovum does not pass along the sin nature.
That is why we read the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 as follows.
Genesis 3:15
The ancients normally referred to the man's seed in a genealogy. Not the woman's.
That was odd wording to their thinking.
Adam's seed is what passed down the sin nature to all of us.
Romans 5:12
That is why God could use Mary's ovum to produce a sinless body for Jesus!
And, why Jesus could have no human father!
grace and peace ...........
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
That is why we read the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 as follows.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
The ancients normally referred to the man's seed in a genealogy. Not the woman's.
That was odd wording to their thinking.
Adam's seed is what passed down the sin nature to all of us.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin,
and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
That is why God could use Mary's ovum to produce a sinless body for Jesus!
And, why Jesus could have no human father!
grace and peace ...........
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
How about inherited or imputed?
What difference does it make? What is your point, that we suffer because God willed us to be under Adam's (not Eve's) sin?
Is it not God's will for us to be subject to our own nature and not the nature of another?
Psalm 14:3
New International Version
All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Psalm 14:3
(We become corrupt not born corrupt)
James 1:14-15
New American Standard Bible
But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it has run its course, brings forth death.
What difference does it make? What is your point, that we suffer because God willed us to be under Adam's (not Eve's) sin?
Is it not God's will for us to be subject to our own nature and not the nature of another?
Psalm 14:3
New International Version
All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Psalm 14:3
(We become corrupt not born corrupt)
James 1:14-15
New American Standard Bible
But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it has run its course, brings forth death.
That is speaking to the Jews under the Law WHO WERE SURROUNDED by pagan peoples.
"All have become corrupt," was directed towards the enemies of Israel.
Do all these evildoers know nothing?
They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the Lord. (Ps 14:4)
"My people" are not to be included in with those who, 'became corrupt.'
Most likely there were attempts by the Jews terms for peaceful co-existence. Then the enemies became corrupt.
That was written to the Church. To regenerate believers. Those having the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
It was not written to the world of unbelievers. Believers can become torn between the restraint
of the Holy Spirit, and the seduction by our own lusts. That does not imply that we all will give in.
grace and peace .......
"All have become corrupt," was directed towards the enemies of Israel.
Do all these evildoers know nothing?
They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the Lord. (Ps 14:4)
"My people" are not to be included in with those who, 'became corrupt.'
Most likely there were attempts by the Jews terms for peaceful co-existence. Then the enemies became corrupt.
That was written to the Church. To regenerate believers. Those having the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
It was not written to the world of unbelievers. Believers can become torn between the restraint
of the Holy Spirit, and the seduction by our own lusts. That does not imply that we all will give in.
grace and peace .......