We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ.

[DorothyMae]

Are you purposely being disagreeable?

The Law was already clearly stated, "if you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you will surely die."

That was the only law given to Man before Moses.

Paul wrote and you quoted that the law wasn’t given until Moses. That was your whole point. No law meant no sin was accounted to them.

If Adam was under a law, then there was law before Moses and those who violated it were accountable long before Moses which renders your theory that they were only punished for Adams sin not their own invalid.

 

[DorothyMae]

God did not tell Cain, "If you kill any human being, you will surely die".

That wasn’t the punishment. He didn’t put him in jail either along with a host of punishments God didn’t do. So?

 

[Guojing]

Paul wrote and you quoted that the law wasn’t given until Moses. That was your whole point. No law meant no sin was accounted to them.

If Adam was under a law, then there was law before Moses and those who violated it were accountable long before Moses which renders your theory that they were only punished for Adams sin not their own invalid.

Tell me clearly how can anyone eat from the tree after Adam.

They can't because mankind was banished from the Garden, yet all of them die, why?

 

[DorothyMae]

Tell me clearly how can anyone eat from the tree after Adam.

They can't because mankind was banished from the Garden, yet all of them die, why?

What does this have to do with anything? Doing wrong and God holding a man accountable is independent of where he lives. He suffers for the wrong he did. That is my point. The soul that sins dies. Sin enetered the world, not Adam. Through sin came death because we all sin.

 

[DorothyMae]

​

But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. ​

(Romans 7:17) ​

​

no longer ​

notice that phrase? it implies that it once was the speaker who sins, but something changed.

want to take a stab at explaining that, since you say you have an abundantly clear and unbiased understanding of it?
what has changed?

When a person repents of their sin, receives cleansing and forgiveness and the Holy Spirit enters that man or woman, there is an increased awareness of sin. This is generally after one has sinned. One develops the desire to do good avoiding wrong as one yields (surrenders) more and more of ones choices to God. So sin becomes unwelcome and there is kind of dichotomy in which part of us wants the pleasure the sin offers and part of us dislikes it. So in one sense it is not us but sin although we, not something else, reap the consequences of choosing sin. So it is us and not us depending upon how you look at it. We won’t be able to blame sin in us before the throne but it is not what we desire to be and do when the HS lives in us.

 

[Guojing]

What does this have to do with anything? Doing wrong and God holding a man accountable is independent of where he lives. He suffers for the wrong he did. That is my point. The soul that sins dies. Sin enetered the world, not Adam. Through sin came death because we all sin.

Again, vs 13 says But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.

 

[DorothyMae]

Again, vs 13 says But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.

And yet they were punished by God so it counted as wrong. What Paul meant we don’t know. But he didn’t mean nothing untoward happened to them because of their sin.

 

[Guojing]

And yet they were punished by God so it counted as wrong. What Paul meant we don’t know. But he didn’t mean nothing untoward happened to them because of their sin.

Not we, you.

You don't want to know, since you don't want to believe that it was also because of Christ's obedience, not yours, that you are declared righteous. (Romans 5:15-19)

 

[DorothyMae]

Not we, you.

You don't want to know, since you don't want to believe that it was also because of Christ's obedience, not yours, that you are declared righteous. (Romans 5:15-19)

What you think it means makes no sense at all. If it were true, it would make sense.

I do know the motivation for this though. It’s much more desireable to repent of a sin nature you can’t help and is not your fault than real sin you actually chose.

 

[Guojing]

What you think it means makes no sense at all. If it were true, it would make sense.

I do know the motivation for this though. It’s much more desireable to repent of a sin nature you can’t help and is not your fault than real sin you actually chose.

I also understand why you believe otherwise. You cannot accept that it was Christ's obedience that made you righteous, you want to also factor in your own good works into the equation.

 

[DorothyMae]

I also understand why you believe otherwise. You cannot accept that it was Christ's obedience that made you righteous, you want to also factor in your own good works into the equation.

Untrue and also makes no sense. You see, Christ atonement was for my own sin. I did no works to receive it. No works at all. But I repented for what I (not Adam) did. So your assumption on my motivation has no basis in fact.

There are no works to be done and you cannot find a post where I said there are some I or anyone did.

 

[Guojing]

Untrue and also makes no sense. You see, Christ atonement was for my own sin. I did no works to receive it. No works at all. But I repented for what I (not Adam) did. So your assumption on my motivation has no basis in fact.

There are no works to be done and you cannot find a post where I said there are some I or anyone did.

You believe you can lose your salvation thru your own actions correct?

 

[biker]

Are you purposely being disagreeable?

The Law was already clearly stated, "if you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you will surely die."

That was the only law given to Man before Moses.

I seem to recall there being another direct Command from God to Adam and Eve.
Be fruitful and multiply!
That definitely was not a Mosaic Law.

 

[DorothyMae]

You believe you can lose your salvation thru your own actions correct?

Theoretically I or anyone can throw it away same as any relationship. Practically speaking this will now never happen and I actually was only concerned about neglecting it in the early days and thereby throwing it away. But now, like my marriage, it is so a part of who I am, it’d be worse than cutting off my leg.

So if you are going with “I do works to keep it” we need to get down to what I actually did not to lose it. I read my Bible. Is that a work? I found a fellowship of believers. Is that a work? I talked to God and He talked to me. Are any of these “works” you shun?

I can add that I also talked to my husband to keep our marriage alive and not “lose”it. Do I believe in “works marriage?”

 

[Peterlag]

We must understand how this can be true and yet it also be true that we lie if we say there is no sin in us. It must be that the work of Christ in us is so powerful that God considers us righteous.

So to summarize all scriptures brought up in these posts: We are made righteous through Christ. We are to live in that righteousness with the fruits of the spirit of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. Through Christ that must be what the Lord sees in us. Through our will we are to make it manifest.

Or the one that is lying is not yet a Christian. Here's another one...
our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

[posthuman]

This is no laughing matter.

The fact that you think any of this is amusing speaks volumes.

Salvation in the removal of sins from the person who first believes is free.

Now he must walk worth of the vocation wherewith he was called (Ephesians 4:1).

That is a scriptural fact.

who is laughing?
what i said is true.

Your understanding and conclusion of Romans 6, 7, and 8 is flawed and in error.

I would write down why, but the scripture is so clear that it would be better for you to just read Romans without a bias.

if what you said here is true, then you sin if you don't correct what i've been writing to you, as you say you could speak the truth but you refuse to.
if what you said here is not true, then you sinned to write it, and also in vanity to say later that your conduct is pure.
in either case why are you not condemned? if you are in Him?
because of what is explained in Romans 7. it is the vanity of your flesh, not the Spirit in you, which sins. and it is contrary to the Spirit.

so walk as one worthy of the calling.
teach me how it is that unregenerate, unbelieving sinners are the ones crucified to their flesh, no longer sin, and who serve God with their mind. or confess that this is written about those who have been born of the spirit, and how that we do indeed war against our own flesh in order to walk in the light, the two being contrary to each other.

 

[Guojing]

I seem to recall there being another direct Command from God to Adam and Eve.
Be fruitful and multiply!
That definitely was not a Mosaic Law.

That is not a commandment.

They won't die anyway if they don't disobey that. God obviously made it too pleasurable for them not to do it

 

[Guojing]

Theoretically I or anyone can throw it away same as any relationship. Practically speaking this will now never happen and I actually was only concerned about neglecting it in the early days and thereby throwing it away. But now, like my marriage, it is so a part of who I am, it’d be worse than cutting off my leg.

So if you are going with “I do works to keep it” we need to get down to what I actually did not to lose it. I read my Bible. Is that a work? I found a fellowship of believers. Is that a work? I talked to God and He talked to me. Are any of these “works” you shun?

I can add that I also talked to my husband to keep our marriage alive and not “lose”it. Do I believe in “works marriage?”

Thus, you find it difficult to understand the entire Romans 5:12-19 as it is written, not what you would like it to say.

 

[Peterlag]

If Paul is not talking to Christians then should Christians then disregard these particular passages of Scripture?

Are you trolling? At this point it does sound as though you are.

You may likely be the only one here that believes the Holy Spirit is not revealed in the entire Bible and is introduced at the beginning of Genesis for that matter.

Or is the real problem here that you think the Holy Spirit and Jesus are one and the same? Hmmm?

What is trolling?

 

[Peterlag]

What does that have to do with the discussion?

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.