Understanding God’s election
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From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Open theists deny God's omniscience. This is what comes of believing contrary to what the Bible teaches along
the lines of free will, which does not exist, despite your insistence that it does. What the Bible actually teaches
is that the whole world is under the power and influence of the evil one, and some are specifically said to be taken
captive to the will of the devil, which would likely be quite a high number if anyone were to count, and demolishes
the fantasy of free will. Also despite your insistence that the natural man is not such a bad guy after all, being curious
of statistics around it I found these facts last night: globally, there are about 52 deaths per hour from homicide. Wow.
That is close to one murder every minute! The Americas had the highest homicide rate per 100,000 population. Also,
over 370 million girls and women globally, alive today – or 1 in 8 – experienced rape or sexual assault before the age
of 18, that means as children. One in five women and one in 71 men will be raped at some point in their lives. Anyways,
those of the world do not include believers in case you want to try to slip that in there.
the lines of free will, which does not exist, despite your insistence that it does. What the Bible actually teaches
is that the whole world is under the power and influence of the evil one, and some are specifically said to be taken
captive to the will of the devil, which would likely be quite a high number if anyone were to count, and demolishes
the fantasy of free will. Also despite your insistence that the natural man is not such a bad guy after all, being curious
of statistics around it I found these facts last night: globally, there are about 52 deaths per hour from homicide. Wow.
That is close to one murder every minute! The Americas had the highest homicide rate per 100,000 population. Also,
over 370 million girls and women globally, alive today – or 1 in 8 – experienced rape or sexual assault before the age
of 18, that means as children. One in five women and one in 71 men will be raped at some point in their lives. Anyways,
those of the world do not include believers in case you want to try to slip that in there.
Whenever you get personal in your written assault towards me I understand how much truth really tears you apart. You only truly attempt to belittle someone whenever they can show validity and Scriptural fact. I was raised on the Tanakh and had privilege to the original language being used to understand the key word meaning based upon the Numerical Values knowing that each Hebrew Letter [22] also equals a numerical number that must match 100%
But in this particular subject all one has to do is read the whole story. Much like saying God hardened Pharaohs heart but you read Pharaoh first hardened his own heart several times and then God made it permanent. But Pharaoh did it free will before God made it permanent. And that's what you hate most. Hence why you have attacked me like you did because I am correct and nothing you can do but throw a hissy fit and call me names
But in this particular subject all one has to do is read the whole story. Much like saying God hardened Pharaohs heart but you read Pharaoh first hardened his own heart several times and then God made it permanent. But Pharaoh did it free will before God made it permanent. And that's what you hate most. Hence why you have attacked me like you did because I am correct and nothing you can do but throw a hissy fit and call me names
What you wrote in the bolded part is patently false. God hardened Pharaoh's heart first and Pharaoh was perfectly fine with that, proving once again that man's will is perfectly compatible with God's! You truly are ignorant of the scriptures, aren't you? I devoted a post (#12, 725) to the hardening of Pharaoh's heart and thoroughly demolished your theory. It appears you missed it -- probably due to the love affair your nose has with tree trunks.
I have all night but if it exists it should only take a few minutes.
All Salvation is by God's Sovereign Will/Grace Which is the Primary Cause Behind All Men For Obeying the Gospel Truth
Gal 1:15-16
15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,
NIV
God effectually called Paul into his kingdom to serve as full time New Covenant minister of the Gospel. And Paul had the same kind of conversion experience Peter did when Jesus told this latter apostle, after his confession of faith, that God alone ultimately revealed this great truth of His identity to him (Mat 16:17).
But Effectual Calling isn't the only aspect to salvation that is effectual!
All men are saved BY God's grace (Eph 2:8-9).
All men are justified freely BY God's grace (Rom 3:24), and not by man's "freewill" decision to believe the gospel.
All God's elect remnant are chosen by His grace (Rom 11:5).
All God's elect are sovereignly appointed BY His grace to believe (Act 13:48).
All men who believe the gospel do so BY God's grace (Act 18:27).
Man's will, in terms of what is the Primary Cause behind man's salvation, is nowhere in sight in any of these passages.
For God's grace supposedly being totally ineffectual per FWers, one must wonder why their god freewill constantly takes a back seat to God's sovereign Will/Grace.
So, FWers, give me one text in scripture that explicitly states that man's "freewill" choice to repent and believe the gospel is the primary, efficacious cause to their salvation.
Gal 1:15-16
15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,
NIV
God effectually called Paul into his kingdom to serve as full time New Covenant minister of the Gospel. And Paul had the same kind of conversion experience Peter did when Jesus told this latter apostle, after his confession of faith, that God alone ultimately revealed this great truth of His identity to him (Mat 16:17).
But Effectual Calling isn't the only aspect to salvation that is effectual!
All men are saved BY God's grace (Eph 2:8-9).
All men are justified freely BY God's grace (Rom 3:24), and not by man's "freewill" decision to believe the gospel.
All God's elect remnant are chosen by His grace (Rom 11:5).
All God's elect are sovereignly appointed BY His grace to believe (Act 13:48).
All men who believe the gospel do so BY God's grace (Act 18:27).
Man's will, in terms of what is the Primary Cause behind man's salvation, is nowhere in sight in any of these passages.
For God's grace supposedly being totally ineffectual per FWers, one must wonder why their god freewill constantly takes a back seat to God's sovereign Will/Grace.
So, FWers, give me one text in scripture that explicitly states that man's "freewill" choice to repent and believe the gospel is the primary, efficacious cause to their salvation.
So, God's ineffectual will is why Jonah finally obeyed God after receiving His second gospel commission which resulted in many [elect] Ninevites being saved?
That's basically what we're told. It does not substantiate TULIPism Irresistible Grace in individual salvation.
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A very simple and repeated response: asked and answered.
I recently even posted a link back to that area of discussion. Your gracious response:
Go back and read the discussion and see if you can understand my answer. If you can't then ask some legitimate questions or better yet pick up some greater context (of which I mentioned some) post the Scriptures and explain them in context and I'll respond to your legitimate attempt to interpret Scripture.
I recently even posted a link back to that area of discussion. Your gracious response:
Go back and read the discussion and see if you can understand my answer. If you can't then ask some legitimate questions or better yet pick up some greater context (of which I mentioned some) post the Scriptures and explain them in context and I'll respond to your legitimate attempt to interpret Scripture.
Oh, my, my....our make-believe bible scholar doesn't know where to go in the bible to find the Balaam story. Do you know where the OT is in your bible? Do you think you can find the Book of Numbers in it? And I know I'm pushing the envelope here but hey... do you think you could find chapter 22 in that book, Mr. Laziness?
There we go, back to the basic lists of TULIP verses to be easily found published on the internet. Back to the throwing stuff on the wall for other to clean up.
The problem here is if someone requests to examine any of these Scriptures verse by verse in context Rufus will distract, divert, respond with fallacious argumentation techniques, and disappear from any such work in Scripture.
Firstly, a look at a couple of the tactics here:
The problem here is if someone requests to examine any of these Scriptures verse by verse in context Rufus will distract, divert, respond with fallacious argumentation techniques, and disappear from any such work in Scripture.
Firstly, a look at a couple of the tactics here:
- Rather than "Irresistible Grace" - the "I" in TULIP - some choose to rename it and call it Efficacious Grace. Efficacious is a word that means the ability of something to produce a desired or intended result.
- This strategic wording sets up an attack against opponents of TULIP who believe man can and does resist God’s Grace.
- As Efficacious rather than Irresistible, an opponent can now be alleged to be saying God’s Grace does not have the ability to produce God’s desired or intended result.
- So, opponents to Irresistible Grace are now alleged to be attacking God’s power. So, they are alleged to be attacking God and are thus alleged enemies and haters of God.
- We can search back through this thread and see all of this taking place.
- Biblical Grace is not the issue. Irresistible Grace is the issue. Efficacious Grace is the tactic.
- There are no opponents to TULIP on this thread that I can recall who don't believe God by His Grace is the primary cause of man's salvation.
- Salvation is God's Plan and gift and opponents to TULIP do not think otherwise not do they believe that accepting a gift makes them the giver of the gift, which is some very strange stab at logic used to make an empty allegation.
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