Understanding God’s election

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes...you "acknowledge" with totally irrelevant passages. You do this to distract and deflect from any narrowly-focused topic that makes you squirm. You think you can throw any bible text against the barn wall and it will stick. This is because no one at your church, or any of your favored FWT theologians ever taught you how to think for yourself. All you have in your grab bag of tricks are their stupid talking points which you so willingly parrot!

lol your entertaining that’s something I suppose you should probably try reading some of those irrelevant passages they might become relevant if you ever aconolwedge them but at this point we can both see this isn’t beneficial to anyone correct ? Let’s be adults and find people we can talk with to some good fruit rather than the spoiled stuff arguing with no real reason brings

 

[Rufus]

The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)

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So, re: Jer10:14, bottom line is you reject and ignore context, analysis of a Bible translation team, and commentary from John Calvin whose TULIP you've borrowed in order to fight for and modify for your bizarre nothingness of man focus. At least we're getting to know you better and highlighting how you're your own mess.

BTW, I'm all for rejecting many resources, but there has to be exegetical strength and reason to do so and to prove an alternative. You just don't show any.

This is not so much for you because you exhibit too many signs of being a lost cause for getting to truth other than being a great resource for what the Text does not say or mean. For this I thank you while also praying for your healing.

NKJ John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

NKJ Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

NKJ Rom:1:17-18 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just (upright, righteous) shall live by faith." 8 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

One of the keys to Romans is this dual underlying message that Hebrews speaks about and Jesus spoke of when He was dealing mainly with Israel when He was on earth. There have been men of Faith - those who believe in God - at least since Abel even though all were under sin.

What Paul is discussing includes this truth and it needs to be tracked in his letter. I've not forgotten this, and you've never understood it. You really need to jettison your very odd obsession with the nothingness of man.

Re: what Paul has to say about idolatry in the NC Writings: Yes, idolatry is an issue for the unbelieving/unrighteous whom he is distinguishing in Rom1, and something to be cautious of for men of Faith as he also deals with in his other writings. Yet there are and always have been men of Faith - who believe in God - at least since Abel because God has made himself known to the minds, consciences, will, and belief of His creatures - mankind. This foundational truth is part of Paul's presuppositional thinking and is an underlying truth in Paul's writings.

Again, you simply prove what you don't know. Your nothingness of man presupposition has blinded you to the chagrin of part of your sect and others.

More nonsensical blather from you! Don't you know that all scripture must be understood in it's 3-in-1 context, i.e. the entire bible? What part of Rom 1:22-23 don't you get!? When men reject God, his Christ or his Truth, this proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are IDOLATERS just like Israel was in Jer 10. Therefore, Jer 10:14 applies to ALL unbelievers w/o exception! Your refusal to see this truth proves that you must think there are more than two spiritual classes of men; yet, the bible throughout proves there are only two categories in God's eyes: Men either worship, fear, love and obey the one true God as he has revealed himself in the scriptures, or they worship and love someone or something else. Very easy concept to understand.

And why are you still refusing to answer the rhetorical question in Jer 13:23a? A very simple "yes" or "no" would suffice.

 

[Rufus]

lol your entertaining that’s something I suppose you should probably try reading some of those irrelevant passages they might become relevant if you ever aconolwedge them but at this point we can both see this isn’t beneficial to anyone correct ? Let’s be adults and find people we can talk with to some good fruit rather than the spoiled stuff arguing with no real reason brings

You wanna be an "adult", then answer my questions honestly and quit detracting from specific issues with your inane non sequitirs.

Prove to me from scripture that God provides all men w/o exception an opportunity to be saved.

Prove to me from scripture that God treats all men w/o exception in "the same exact way".

And answer my questions re Jer 13:23.

 

[Rufus]

The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)

______________________________________
​

So, re: Jer10:14, bottom line is you reject and ignore context, analysis of a Bible translation team, and commentary from John Calvin whose TULIP you've borrowed in order to fight for and modify for your bizarre nothingness of man focus. At least we're getting to know you better and highlighting how you're your own mess.

BTW, I'm all for rejecting many resources, but there has to be exegetical strength and reason to do so and to prove an alternative. You just don't show any.

This is not so much for you because you exhibit too many signs of being a lost cause for getting to truth other than being a great resource for what the Text does not say or mean. For this I thank you while also praying for your healing.

NKJ John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

NKJ Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his g ifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

NKJ Rom:1:17-18 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just (upright, righteous) shall live by faith." 8 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

One of the keys to Romans is this dual underlying message that Hebrews speaks about and Jesus spoke of when He was dealing mainly with Israel when He was on earth. There have been men of Faith - those who believe in God - at least since Abel even though all were under sin.

What Paul is discussing includes this truth and it needs to be tracked in his letter. I've not forgotten this, and you've never understood it. You really need to jettison your very odd obsession with the nothingness of man.

Re: what Paul has to say about idolatry in the NC Writings: Yes, idolatry is an issue for the unbelieving/unrighteous whom he is distinguishing in Rom1, and something to be cautious of for men of Faith as he also deals with in his other writings. Yet there are and always have been men of Faith - who believe in God - at least since Abel because God has made himself known to the minds, consciences, will, and belief of His creatures - mankind. This foundational truth is part of Paul's presuppositional thinking and is an underlying truth in Paul's writings.

Again, you simply prove what you don't know. Your nothingness of man presupposition has blinded you to the chagrin of part of your sect and others.

Hey, Mr. Wanna-be Expert Exegete, to whom was the Book of Hebrews written? Who precisely was the original audience?

 

[studier]

More nonsensical blather from you!

Back at you with your supposed 3 in one hermeneutic. You're confusing your hermeneutic with your lube.

Versatile lubricating oil
3-in-One Oil is a versatile lubricating oil used for household and do-it-yourself purposes. It was originally formulated in 1894 for bicycle chains and is known for its triple ability to "clean, lubricate, and protect". It can be used to lubricate tools, hinges, nuts and bolts, bicycles, wheels, fans, and other moving parts.

 

[GWH]

Who says "they" can't? You and your crew are the only ones looking at this topic like this. We preach daily it's not us that save but God, you are the people that put salvation squarely at the feet of men and what they choose. You're so deluded that you just seem to be lost and blind at this point, from my perspective.

You misrepresent and lie about what others believe so much, you are so far off reality in so many ways, that you look much more like a child of the flesh than a son of the Creator. There's no talking to you, there is no finding common ground with you, you're dishonest, dismissive, and ignorant of the truth and the things of the Spirit. I've never met anyone like you in real life, but I honestly don't believe you'd speak to someone in person the way you do on here. You spend a lot of time trying to divide the body, why? I can see no reason other than to divide the body. This is COMPLETELY anti-Christ. I never really saw you like this before, I really just saw you as someone I disagreeed with and had a VERY different perspective than, but today for some reason I just see your whole comment style and arguments as a whole a 100% wicked and anti-Christ. I pray God draws you to truth, but I will not ever waste another second on your childish and straight up satanic mission here. Have a great day.

So Yesterday!

 

[studier]

Hey, Mr. Wanna-be Expert Exegete, to whom was the Book of Hebrews written? Who precisely was the original audience?

Rufus, but he doesn't understand it, even though it tells him that faith has existed in mankind since Abel.

 

[Magenta]

Rufus, but he doesn't understand it, even though it tells him that faith has existed in mankind since Abel.

So has lack of faith. What's your point, exactly? Oh, besides trash talking, which is overtly evident in many of your posts.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You wanna be an "adult", then answer my questions honestly and quit detracting from specific issues with your inane non sequitirs.

Prove to me from scripture that God provides all men w/o exception an opportunity to be saved.

Prove to me from scripture that God treats all men w/o exception in "the same exact way".

And answer my questions re Jer 13:23.

I’ve been pretty clear you won’t acknolwedge anything I show you then you just demand I prove things you’ve added to what I said …..I’m not interested it’s a silly childish circle . I’m here to discuss the Bible not argue with people for no reason. I have no interest in continuing with you . I should have been more clear that time . No interest your just pestering me at this point

 

[Cameron143]

Rufus, but he doesn't understand it, even though it tells him that faith has existed in mankind since Abel.

Not since Adam?

 

[studier]

The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)

______________________________________
​

More nonsensical blather from you! Don't you know that all scripture must be understood in it's 3-in-1 context, i.e. the entire bible? What part of Rom 1:22-23 don't you get!? When men reject God, his Christ or his Truth, this proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are IDOLATERS just like Israel was in Jer 10. Therefore, Jer 10:14 applies to ALL unbelievers w/o exception! Your refusal to see this truth proves that you must think there are more than two spiritual classes of men; yet, the bible throughout proves there are only two categories in God's eyes: Men either worship, fear, love and obey the one true God as he has revealed himself in the scriptures, or they worship and love someone or something else. Very easy concept to understand.

And why are you still refusing to answer the rhetorical question in Jer 13:23a? A very simple "yes" or "no" would suffice.

Like I, the NET Bible translators and interpreters, and Calvin said, in Jer10 idolators and idol craftsmen of the nations are idolators, not all human beings which was not in context, which is a word and concept that you've never learned but pretend to know about.

And, yes, there have always been men of Faith on the earth at least since Abel which is what I've been continually saying to you while you negate it to make your nothingness of man work.

Jer13:23 answered already. As many times as you insist it wasn't I can insist it was - ping-pong as @GWH called it - and I'm comfortable the posts trail shows it. It seems @Pilgrimshope is identifying your tactics and not willing to play the paddle game. Wisdom. BTW, @Pilgrimshope puts together some interesting verse chains. I'm not surprised they are over your head.

 

[studier]

Not since Adam?

I'm just reading Heb11 and not going further. I've already seen the knucklehead put forth his Adam and Eve theories so no need to go there.

 

[Cameron143]

I'm just reading Heb11 and not going further. I've already seen the knucklehead put forth his Adam and Eve theories so no need to go there.

Fair enough.

 

[Rufus]

Back at you with your supposed 3 in one hermeneutic. You're confusing your hermeneutic with your lube.

Versatile lubricating oil
3-in-One Oil is a versatile lubricating oil used for household and do-it-yourself purposes. It was originally formulated in 1894 for bicycle chains and is known for its triple ability to "clean, lubricate, and protect". It can be used to lubricate tools, hinges, nuts and bolts, bicycles, wheels, fans, and other moving parts.

It's no wonder that you and other FWers mercilessly bastardize the scriptures at nearly every turn. You just admitted that you could care less about how or if your interpretation of any given passage is internally consistent with the full counsel of God! But I do thank you for your unwitting honesty, especially since finding any honesty in you would be more difficult to find than a hen's tooth.

 

[Rufus]

The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)

______________________________________
​

Like I, the NET Bible translators and interpreters, and Calvin said, in Jer10 idolators and idol craftsmen of the nations are idolators, not all human beings which was not in context, which is a word and concept that you've never learned but pretend to know about.

And, yes, there have always been men of Faith on the earth at least since Abel which is what I've been continually saying to you while you negate it to make your nothingness of man work.

Jer13:23 answered already. As many times as you insist it wasn't I can insist it was - ping-pong as @GWH called it - and I'm comfortable the posts trail shows it. It seems @Pilgrimshope is identifying your tactics and not willing to play the paddle game. Wisdom. BTW, @Pilgrimshope puts together some interesting verse chains. I'm not surprised they are over your head.

Prove it. Give me the post number. Or just answer "yes" or "no" to the rhetorical question. You're the one playing ping pong here. It seems that with all this human spiritual ability mankind has that you keep boasting about a simple "yes" or "no" answer would not be above your pay grade.

 

[Rufus]

Not since Adam?

And not since Eve either! So, now it appears that Studier has written both A&E off from being in the Book of Life.

 

[Rufus]

I’ve been pretty clear you won’t acknolwedge anything I show you then you just demand I prove things you’ve added to what I said …..I’m not interested it’s a silly childish circle . I’m here to discuss the Bible not argue with people for no reason. I have no interest in continuing with you . I should have been more clear that time . No interest your just pestering me at this point

Of course, you have no interest in continuing with me. You can't answer my question with relative scriptures.

 

[Magenta]

the knucklehead

Your trash talking posts never end.

 

[Rufus]

The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)

______________________________________
​

Like I, the NET Bible translators and interpreters, and Calvin said, in Jer10 idolators and idol craftsmen of the nations are idolators, not all human beings which was not in context, which is a word and concept that you've never learned but pretend to know about.

And, yes, there have always been men of Faith on the earth at least since Abel which is what I've been continually saying to you while you negate it to make your nothingness of man work.

Jer13:23 answered already. As many times as you insist it wasn't I can insist it was - ping-pong as @GWH called it - and I'm comfortable the posts trail shows it. It seems @Pilgrimshope is identifying your tactics and not willing to play the paddle game. Wisdom. BTW, @Pilgrimshope puts together some interesting verse chains. I'm not surprised they are over your head .

Then explain to me how all unregenerate unbelievers are not idolaters. This dark, fallen world is filled with idolaters!

Of course, your refusal to simply come out and honestly give a simple "yes" or "no" answer re Jer 13:23a speaks volumes as to what you really believe. You, like PT, believe that Ethiopians can change their skin and leopard can change their spots. But you're too cowardly to say admit this publicly.

 

[Rufus]

I'm just reading Heb11 and not going further. I've already seen the knucklehead put forth his Adam and Eve theories so no need to go there.

So, tell us what your point was to highlighting (underlining) "we understand" in Heb 11:3? Exactly who are the "we" in the text? Is the "we" in the passage the entire world in the distributive sense? If not, what is the point to quoting the text in the first place...beside the point on top your head, of course.