Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

I agree that we have been given the ability to make decisions - to function in this world that we have been
placed in. But turning to God in faith, in our own strength, is not something that natural man is capable of!

Indeed.

FTFY!

God knows the end from the beginning. He said so.

What if I view scripture "through the lens of itself"?

Then you will be at odds with free willers who insert what isn't there to believe as doctrine and refuse to accept what is there.

 

[Rufus]

Actually if we went through all of Peter's writings using the Hellenized Greek there would be more usage similar to the example I have provided.

Once it's been proven what Peter can or cannot speak\write makes it easier to translate. I know that is not something like you want or would ever consider\admit but Theologians, Scholars, CHURCH FATHERS have a better understanding on the language Peter was able to speak\write than YOU or MYSELF.

The specific text speaks for itself!

https://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Pe&c=3&v=9&t=ESV#conc/9

Again, "you" in v. 9 is "Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Accusative Plural".

 

[Rufus]

Claims aren't scripture.

Where is the scripture that tells us God sends the unborn to Hell? SIDS victims to Hell?

That would make that god very strange indeed when it is said he is Omnibenevolent.

Hey,here's a question for you.

Where did God send all the unborn and born babies,and grown adults, he killed as firstborns in Egypt?
Where did he send all the babies and children he slaughtered wholesale in the flood,in burning Sodom and Gomorrah, and as those who populated those adult communities he hated and commanded his Hebrew armies to destroy.
Car in the unborn from their mothers,dashing babies against the rocks,etc.... where did God send them?

Given they were part of those community or tribal groups God hated and purged.

Scripture is chock-full of propositional truth claims.

 

[Rufus]

In Matthew 22:14, Jesus concludes the parable of the wedding banquet with the statement, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” To understand who does the calling and choosing in this parable, we need to consider the context, the specific words Jesus uses, and the implications of the original Greek.

1. Who Does the Calling?

The King in the parable clearly represents God, who extends the initial invitation to the wedding banquet. The verb κεκλημένους (perfect passive participle) indicates that the guests were already invited long before the banquet was ready. This implies that God had extended His invitation to His chosen people (the Israelites) throughout history. The perfect tense emphasizes a completed action with ongoing relevance — they were invited in the past, and that invitation still stands.

2. Who Does the Choosing?

The phrase “few are chosen” does not imply that God is selectively choosing a few from among the invited. Instead, it reflects the response of the invitees themselves. The Greek phrase ὀλίγοι ἐκλεκτοί (“few are chosen”) consists of two adjectives functioning as nouns, emphasizing the number of those who actually responded properly to the invitation.

Thus, the “choosing” in this context refers to those who chose to attend the banquet with the proper heart and preparation. The parable emphasizes that being called or invited by God does not automatically grant entrance to the Kingdom; it requires a willing and appropriate response from those invited.

3. Theological Implication: The Book of Life and Human Responsibility

In the context of God’s plan of redemption, the term κεκλημένους can carry a deeper significance, referring to those whose names are already written in the Book of Life—that is, those whom God has foreknown and invited into His Kingdom. Just as a wedding guest list is prepared in advance and invitations go out accordingly, God’s call goes out to those He has already known and invited.

However, having one’s name on the 'guest list' is not enough. The invitation requires a genuine response. The parable illustrates that while all are invited, not all choose to respond appropriately. Those who are ultimately considered “chosen” are those who accept the invitation and come properly prepared, symbolized by wearing the appropriate wedding garment (i.e., repentance and righteousness).

This highlights the role of human responsibility. Jesus emphasizes that, although God’s invitation is extended broadly (“many are called”), only a few accept it as required. The parable shows that many refused to come, while others came improperly dressed, symbolizing a lack of true preparation or genuine repentance.

So, the chosen choose themselves? Is that how Jesus chose his disciples: He waited to see if they would choose themselves to become his followers?

 

[Rufus]

I just dont like this idea of throwing all free will out the window is all. I guess I dont like it when it is implied God made the unbeliever not believe in Him.

Okay...how 'bout you toss "free" and keep "will"? Would that work for you?

 

[lrs68]

The specific text speaks for itself!

https://www.blbclassic.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Pe&c=3&v=9&t=ESV#conc/9

Again, "you" in v. 9 is "Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Accusative Plural".

I said that you just didn't comprehend it.

 

[Jackson129]

That's not the real acid test! The real test is how scripture defines and uses any given term.

Which of the 9 meanings for "kosmos" in the Gr. would you assign to Jn 17:9?

The one that means the world like it does in English. You know the world.

 

[lrs68]

Don't you know that everyone believes by the efficacious power of God's grace (Jn 6:28-29; Act 13:16; 15:9; 18:27; Rom 12:3; Eph 2:8-10; 1Tim 1:14; 1Pet 1:3-5; 2Pet 1:3-4; 1Cor 4:7)?

Yes, God's Grace is the fact He takes time to actually manifest Himself to us.

 

[Rufus]

That's because they have a huge supply of topical anesthetic.

They need that to numb their minds since they're virtually out of supply of critical thinking skills.

 

[Rufus]

The one that means the world like it does in English. You know the world.

My English dictionary has more definitions for "world" than in the Greek! 14 in English to 9 in the Greek. So, which one would you choose? Try really hard this time to not deflect.

 

[Jackson129]

They need that to numb their minds since they're virtually out of supply of critical thinking skills.

So where did you learn your doctrine? Did a church teach you or did you use critical thinking skills to come up with it?

 

[lrs68]

The one that means the world like it does in English. You know the world.

John used the Koine Greek so that eliminates the possibilities offered by the Hellenized Greek and what is known as today's Common Wealth Greek.

The Koine Greek [Kosmos] is everything in existence. So Jesus died for all of His Creation.

 

[Jackson129]

When God says though his inspired word... "for God so loved the world " you dont need critical thinking skills to know he means the whole world. You need them to them to try to prove that's not what he ment.

 

[Rufus]

You forget.

In our beginning we were all unbelievers. Born in our natural conscious awareness of self-preservation.

But now, you believe.

You think you chose to all on your own. But 1 Corinthians 2 tells you,you can't.

Yet,there you are. A believer.

Why? Because the Gospel message just makes sense.

You didn't arrive at that conclusion. It wasn't a choice. It was something that moved,shifted,within you when you heard the word.

That's because it was The Word calling you home.

You were doing fine up to the point I bolded! We all made a CHOICE. (You're tossing the baby out with the dirty wash water!) And our choices totally aligned with God's will for us. We made the choices we did because we were predestined in eternity to become adopted children of God.

 

[Rufus]

John used the Koine Greek so that eliminates the possibilities offered by the Hellenized Greek and what is known as today's Common Wealth Greek.

The Koine Greek [Kosmos] is everything in existence. So Jesus died for all of His Creation.

Pure, unadulterated falsehood! "Kosmos" has 9 definitions in "koine" Gr. The megabytes of irony with your inane statement, is that the opposite is true more often than not!

 

[Rufus]

When God says though his inspired word... "for God so loved the world " you dont need critical thinking skills to know he means the whole world. You need them to them to try to prove that's not what he ment.

Naive much? The Gr. term "kosmos" has at least 9 definitions!

Furthermore, if what you say is true, then v. 17 teaches universal salvation; for you would have to interpret "world" in this verse the same exact way you do in v. 16.

 

[lrs68]

Pure, unadulterated falsehood! "Kosmos" has 9 definitions in "koine" Gr. The megabytes of irony with your inane statement, is that the opposite is true more often than not!

In Koine Greek, "kosmos" (κόσμος) can be translated as "world" or "universe". It can also refer to the entire inhabited world or humankind.

OK, like I said it means God's Creation because every possible definition refers to what God Created.

I love it when you get foolish because when we have to offer proof then it really proves just how foolish you can be.

 

[Rufus]

The gospel writers, the prophets and kings, Paul, and Jesus... all say none are good.

God's Word proclaims it repeatedly. Others disagree. Whom shall I believe?

My answer is clear... I know Who to believe.

Acts 10 verse 43~ All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.

Good thing you do know who to trust! Can't trust the sons of men since every man is a liar (Ps 116:11)!

 

[Jackson129]

Naive much? The Gr. term "kosmos" has at least 9 definitions!

Furthermore, if what you say is true, then v. 17 teaches universal salvation; for you would have to interpret "world" in this verse the same exact way you do in v. 16.

You should be glad it has 9 differnt meanings. Its gives you lots of options to match YOUR doctrine to God's scripture.

 

[Magenta]

You should be glad it has 9 differnt meanings. Its gives you lots of options to match YOUR doctrine to God's scripture.

How many usages of 'free will' in the New Testament? .