Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark 10:18 “There is only One who is good.” Matt 19:17b “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.” Luke 18:19 There is no one who does good. fr Psalm 14 There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans 3:10 They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm 53:1-3 Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes 7:20 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (All Have Sinned)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

True. And the only way they can do that is it is given by God that they understand his good news.

Some of us here know what he actually taught. Luke 24:45 comports with exactly what Magenta,myself,and others have been saying.

Then he,Jesus/God opened their understanding,that they might understand the scriptures.

He opened their minds first. Then they understood the scriptures.

We know this.
Despite those who try to lead us to believe it isn't true.

roght. It they hadn’t received the holt ghost yet is my point in luke there they didn’t have this yet

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:26‬ ‭

Gods still done it but my point is when you receive the Holy Spirit Jesus is with you personally and all we have to do is ask him those two men didn’t have the spirit or gifts given to the church so the people could understand.

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭

those men in luke 24 hadn’t received the Holy Ghost none of them had until pentocost….. then they began to learn and grow like this

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

And all that believed were together, and had all things common;….praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-44, 47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We learn from the doctrine and prayer asking him for understanding and wisdom he’ll give it to all liberally but we should make sure not to reject what we learn whe he does



they hadn’t received the spirit yet and didn’t have the gifts of the spirit for the church yet ect

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark 10:18 “There is only One who is good.” Matt 19:17b “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.” Luke 18:19 There is no one who does good. fr Psalm 14 There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans 3:10 They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm 53:1-3 Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes 7:20 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (All Have Sinned)

Oh that’s gorgeous Wowzer

 

[Magenta]

The gospel writers, the prophets and kings, Paul, and Jesus... all say none are good.

God's Word proclaims it repeatedly. Others disagree. Whom shall I believe?

My answer is clear... I know Who to believe.

Acts 10 verse 43~ All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.

 

[Inquisitor]

Translate: God discriminated between the righteous and the wicked -- just like he did when he redeemed Israel from Egypt.

I don't think that Israel was righteous nor were the Egyptians.

 

[Inquisitor]

Ducking.

Not ducking.

Any Christian that lives according to the flesh and not the Holy Spirit, will not enter the kingdom of heaven!

 

[Inquisitor]

The gospel writers, the prophets and kings, Paul, and Jesus... all say none are good.

God's Word proclaims it repeatedly. Others disagree. Whom shall I believe?

My answer is clear... I know Who to believe.

Acts 10 verse 43~ All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.

I don't think that topic is debated; none are righteous.

I have never seen that debated.

 

[Inquisitor]

Thanks, appreciate it, but the question was actually for Inquisitor. I was curious how he specifically believes it occurs.

I see a direct association between calling on the Lord and following the Lord.

I do not see walking in the Holy Spirit as distinct from that believing in Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:3-5
Unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous,
reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness,
although they have denied its power;

 

[GWH]

Paul was wrong

True. They only believe after hearing Disciples or Evangelism, because the Holy Spirit enters and allows them to understand the call to repentance.

You'll hear of those who say they came to repentance as a young child. There was a documentary years ago entitled, Jesus Camp.

Little children shown in all manner of emotion during services held by that camp group.

Were they all God's Elect? No.
No one comes to Jesus unless the father leads them .

Sure,some of those children could be of The Elect. But certain not every last one.
But they could certainly think they were.

Which is why Jesus said,warned,many are called. Few are (the) Chosen.

And as an aside, Jesus was fully human and fully imbued with Holy Spirit,God. He didn't learn to be righteous.

You can certainly think you are right, but I believe Jesus inspired Paul,
who most likely wrote: Although Jesus was God's Son (and thus HS-filled),
"he (as a human) learned obedience from what he suffered (temptation per Heb. 2:18),
and once made perfect (by finishing his mission per John 19:30),
he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him" (Heb. 5:5-9).

 

[BillyBob]

Elect or not we have the ability and free will to do dumb stupid stuff.

I agree that we have been given the ability to make decisions - to function in this world that we have been placed in. But turning to God in faith, in our own strength, is not something that natural man is capable of!

 

[lrs68]

I agree that we have been given the ability to make decisions - to function in this world that we have been placed in. But turning to God in faith, in our own strength, is not something that natural man is capable of!

I also don't believe any human being goes seeking God on his initial thought and will. So many verses show us that God has manifested Himself to all humans whether through His Creation, through their Consciousness, or somehow we go to Church and hear the Preaching of the Gospel.

But the common denominator with all of those ways God manifests Himself to humanity is He makes Himself known and then the human has the ability to choose to believe in God. We see this in Romans, Corinthians, Ephesians, and throughout the Old Testament.

So let's take the example of sitting on a church pew hearing the Gospel preached. We hear and then we can understand that we need God. But HOW DO WE go from understanding to submitting? There's a moment when we decide I am going to yield and give myself in submission to God. This little bit of time is our response. We are saying to God I need YOU!

That little bit of time when we yield, confess that we need Jesus, ask Him to come into our hearts is actually our Free Will.

We've arrived to a point we know we need Jesus so we ask Him come into my heart and be my Lord, God, and Savior. We can only ask if we understand what we are asking. That's knowledge. In that knowledge of knowing we need God is when we are able to ASK GOD to save me. That is Free Will because we know what we are doing at that moment. We know we need God. We need Jesus.

 

[cv5]

That's Sophistry. Not Scripture.

No it is not mere sophistry.
In fact, sin, repentance, judgement, warnings, heeding warnings (all bound up in free will CHOICE) are foundational Biblical PRINCIPLES, further, they are in fact LEGAL principles.

One choice leads to eternal acquittal, the other eternal judgement.

 

[Rufus]

Claims aren't scripture.

Where is the scripture that tells us God sends the unborn to Hell? SIDS victims to Hell?

That would make that god very strange indeed when it is said he is Omnibenevolent.

Hey,here's a question for you.

Where did God send all the unborn and born babies,and grown adults, he killed as firstborns in Egypt?
Where did he send all the babies and children he slaughtered wholesale in the flood,in burning Sodom and Gomorrah, and as those who populated those adult communities he hated and commanded his Hebrew armies to destroy.
Car in the unborn from their mothers,dashing babies against the rocks,etc.... where did God send them?

Given they were part of those community or tribal groups God hated and purged.

You tell me! Did he send them all to the believer's side of Sheol? If so, do you have chapter and verse? And if he did send them there, what was the judicial basis?

 

[Rufus]

Errant attribution.


UR is talking about people.

What is "UR"? And 1Jn 2:2 is not an errant attribution. The term "kosmos" with all its various definitions can often mean inhabitants of this world.

 

[Rufus]

I also don't believe any human being goes seeking God on his initial thought and will. So many verses show us that God has manifested Himself to all humans whether through His Creation, through their Consciousness, or somehow we go to Church and hear the Preaching of the Gospel.

But the common denominator with all of those ways God manifests Himself to humanity is He makes Himself known and then the human has the ability to choose to believe in God. We see this in Romans, Corinthians, Ephesians, and throughout the Old Testament.

So let's take the example of sitting on a church pew hearing the Gospel preached. We hear and then we can understand that we need God. But HOW DO WE go from understanding to submitting? There's a moment when we decide I am going to yield and give myself in submission to God. This little bit of time is our response. We are saying to God I need YOU!

That little bit of time when we yield, confess that we need Jesus, ask Him to come into our hearts is actually our Free Will.

We've arrived to a point we know we need Jesus so we ask Him come into my heart and be my Lord, God, and Savior. We can only ask if we understand what we are asking. That's knowledge. In that knowledge of knowing we need God is when we are able to ASK GOD to save me. That is Free Will because we know what we are doing at that moment. We know we need God. We need Jesus.

Don't you know that everyone believes by the efficacious power of God's grace (Jn 6:28-29; Act 13:16; 15:9; 18:27; Rom 12:3; Eph 2:8-10; 1Tim 1:14; 1Pet 1:3-5; 2Pet 1:3-4; 1Cor 4:7)?

 

[Jackson129]

This word cosmos which has 9 meanings in Greek. Ok rest assured God had only one of them in mind. So do you know what one God had in mind or did you pick the one that best fits your doctrine?

The Bible states more than once "the word of the Lord will never die" so pick whatever Bible in whatever language you want. It means exactly what God wants it to mean. How many definitions does "the world" have in English? 1? Pick the 1 of 9 definitions of cosmos that closet resembles it and that's the one it is. Unless you believe God's word that will never die and His will can be thwarted by man's inability to translate a word

 

[Rufus]

That's contextually incorrect.
Your ideology seems to espouse Universal Reconciliation.
That's not what Jesus taught.

No, that would be the case with FWT (freewill theology). But since the phrase "whole world" is obviously used in a limited sense by virtue of the fact that John excluded Jewish believers to whom he was writing, then we should understand the phrase itself to be used in the limited sense, i.e. Gentile believers.

 

[Rufus]

This word cosmos which has 9 meanings in Greek. Ok rest assured God had only one of them in mind. So do you know what one God had in mind or did you pick the one that best fits your doctrine?

The Bible states more than once "the word of the Lord will never die" so pick whatever Bible in whatever language you want. It means exactly what God wants it to mean. How many definitions does "the world" have in English? 1? Pick the 1 of 9 definitions of cosmos that closet resembles it and that's the one it is. Unless you believe God's word that will never die and His will can be thwarted by man's inability to translate a word

That's not the real acid test! The real test is how scripture defines and uses any given term.

Which of the 9 meanings for "kosmos" in the Gr. would you assign to Jn 17:9?

 

[Rufus]

Because someone stated that there is no negotiation with God.

But there are clearly negotiations taking place in the scripture.

We cannot generalize one way or the other.

Calvinism states that everything [spiritual/moral] is pre-determined from eternity.

FTFY!

 

[Rufus]

The same must be true if you view scripture through the eyes of John Calvin.

What if I view scripture "through the lens of itself"?