Understanding God’s election
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It's interesting you say that as if the natural man is going to choose good when the choice is between following his desires and the desires of God when they are in opposition to each other. I think the Bible makes it pretty clear that the natural man is more inclined to follow his own desires than he is to follow God's. And that is the crux of the problem, isn't it? Jesus is given as the solution, not man exercising his own will trying to be a better person.
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I don't see how the passage you cite is relevant to a one-time event. If Adam was not spiritually alive unto God prior to his sin, then this presents some serious theological problems that would need to be addressed, such as the questions I raised in my last post to you. Since only born again Christians who have the Spirit within them are characterized in the NT as being alive or raised up with Christ, then how could it be any different with A&E -- or at least with Adam since we really don't have any hard, explicit, biblical evidence that God breathed life into Eve's nostrils.
Which verse are you referring to, and what one-time event? I think you may be asking the wrong question, though. Also are you saying Adam and Eve were raised up in Christ without having eaten from the Tree of Life? That they were in Christ simply by virtue of being alive? That certainly presents problems... although Jesus sustains all whether they are Spiritually alive/born again or not. But that is vastly different than being born again. Those not born again die twice. The second death is ever after.
“It's interesting you say that as if the natural man is going to choose good when the choice”
i didn’t say either way actually I said we’re given a choice by God and that’s his design and that we were given dominion and tbat God blames thier actions for the fall and Satan for the deception that led then there ect all the stuff that I quoted from scripture
i wasn’t saying who would choose either way I was just talking about what actually happened and poo ting out in scriptire why i think what I do .
Do you have any response to what I was saying there and talking about those scriptures like this Part ?
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
( is this Gods doing or did Satan deceive man and then they became this way and now God is repenting because he created them ? )
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
( was this Gods plan when he blessed them in Eden and commanded them not to eat the fruit ? Or a result of them being deceived by the serpent and rebelling ?)
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. ( Gods doing ? Or ours ?)
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:5-7, 12-13 KJV
My point isn’t who would choose good or evil but that God gives mankind a choice always has from Eden to cain to israel all the way to the gospel. I don’t wanna get back into the “ natural
Man argument “ with you sis. So I digress On that one I wasn’t ever talking about who would choose what but that the design of God is that we choose good and live always has been . That’s been mans issue from Adam on …..don’t believe God so won’t choose to follow his ways he promises will give us life and bless us .
i didn’t say either way actually I said we’re given a choice by God and that’s his design and that we were given dominion and tbat God blames thier actions for the fall and Satan for the deception that led then there ect all the stuff that I quoted from scripture
i wasn’t saying who would choose either way I was just talking about what actually happened and poo ting out in scriptire why i think what I do .
Do you have any response to what I was saying there and talking about those scriptures like this Part ?
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
( is this Gods doing or did Satan deceive man and then they became this way and now God is repenting because he created them ? )
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
( was this Gods plan when he blessed them in Eden and commanded them not to eat the fruit ? Or a result of them being deceived by the serpent and rebelling ?)
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. ( Gods doing ? Or ours ?)
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:5-7, 12-13 KJV
My point isn’t who would choose good or evil but that God gives mankind a choice always has from Eden to cain to israel all the way to the gospel. I don’t wanna get back into the “ natural
Man argument “ with you sis. So I digress On that one I wasn’t ever talking about who would choose what but that the design of God is that we choose good and live always has been . That’s been mans issue from Adam on …..don’t believe God so won’t choose to follow his ways he promises will give us life and bless us .
Oh I was just showing some scripture there in the thread if anyone had t read those about children to consider i agreed with your point just wanted to throw some scripture in there . I think we can learn a lot just by considering things Jesus said or other scripture says about the subjects we discuss
“Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
Proverbs 22:6 KJV
i would suggest if we train children up in sinful wrong ways it becomes hard for them to get off that path as well . Jesus definitely looked at children in a much more highly esteemed way than he did the grown ups . In my estimation it’s because of what you were saying originally that I replied to they aren’t hopeless evil sinners, tbier just innocent children created by and given life by God like we were at one point as well but grown ups get accountable and responsability comes as we get older in life . Can’t wear a onesie and sit in mamas lap at fourty five ….but at two or even three ….it’s the place to be
someday they’ll grow up and become accountable for thier own words and deeds and so parents should teach them right and wrong and that there are consequences for our actions and rewards for our hard work ect
All eventually sin of they get older and they’ll need an atonement named Jesus but God doesn’t judge people for what they’re going to do in the future maybe but what they actually do according to what they know and understand about good and evil or right and wrong.
He definately loves the babes and children’s
“Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
Proverbs 22:6 KJV
i would suggest if we train children up in sinful wrong ways it becomes hard for them to get off that path as well . Jesus definitely looked at children in a much more highly esteemed way than he did the grown ups . In my estimation it’s because of what you were saying originally that I replied to they aren’t hopeless evil sinners, tbier just innocent children created by and given life by God like we were at one point as well but grown ups get accountable and responsability comes as we get older in life . Can’t wear a onesie and sit in mamas lap at fourty five ….but at two or even three ….it’s the place to be
someday they’ll grow up and become accountable for thier own words and deeds and so parents should teach them right and wrong and that there are consequences for our actions and rewards for our hard work ect
All eventually sin of they get older and they’ll need an atonement named Jesus but God doesn’t judge people for what they’re going to do in the future maybe but what they actually do according to what they know and understand about good and evil or right and wrong.
He definately loves the babes and children’s
What's interesting about this discussion involving the [natural man] is that in the time when he hears the Gospel preached, he feels God working on his condition, and to the very moment he surrenders to God in submission he is still a [natural man].
He doesn't change until he is filled with the Holy Spirit. So there's literally moments when the [natural man] does understand and realize what's happening to him.
This is also the time and place where free will comes into the formula.
He doesn't change until he is filled with the Holy Spirit. So there's literally moments when the [natural man] does understand and realize what's happening to him.
This is also the time and place where free will comes into the formula.
