Understanding God’s election

[cv5]

The corpse analogy is profoundly problematic.

Well, it's easily proven to be a bogus interpretation that's for sure

You see, when you start with Monergistic super-determinism, you always end up with corpses. Lots and lots of corpses. Un-savable irredeemable corpses in fact.

To his eternal credit, Jacob ignored such doctrinal foolishness.

[Gen 32:24-28 KJV] 24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What [is] thy name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

 

[Cameron143]

I would not think someone who goes around saying God raped Mary is saved. Or that if God acts unilaterally He is
an unjust tyrant kidnapping people against their will. They sound more like a God hater than someone who is saved.

We all hold some truth in error. While I don't believe his manner of communication is always edifying, as far as I know he does believe Jesus is God and his faith is based in the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Good enough for me on a forum.

 

[studier]

You're catching on to him! :^)

Have known it. Sometimes I'll disregard and jump in. Not today.

 

[HeIsHere]

?

Oh sorry, I thought the "Lazuras raising himself form the dead" analogy had been posted for the umpteenth time.

Note to self: Read posts before responding.

 

[Cameron143]

Absolutely none in regard as saved individuals. We have the Spirit and can know the things of God.

However, every unbeliever I know is aching for the Gospel Of The Lord Jesus Christ. And It is available to each and everyone of them. At ANY time. And we, as believers, should treat it as such.

I agree that every unbeliever is searching for the satisfaction that only God can give, but I disagree that they are seeking God for it. Many are seeking fulfillment in work, money, drugs, and a host of other things. If they were looking for it from God, evangelism wouldn't be necessary.

I do, however, share your affinity for sharing the gospel.

 

[studier]

Oh sorry, I thought the "Lazuras raising himself form the dead" analogy had been posted for the umpteenth time.

Note to self: Read posts before responding.

Smiling... I write notes to self but forget to read them.

 

[GWH]

Have known it. Sometimes I'll disregard and jump in. Not today.

I will say that he helped me understand the first part of Revelation before pooping out when we got to the chapters that contained fewer OT references.

 

[cv5]

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Yes @Rufus , Jacob was a prevail-er, and concordantly, we are overcomers.

It's easy to get the picture here. I sure hope that you come to terms with the obvious truth of the matter eventually.....

 

[Cameron143]

I will say that he helped me understand the first part of Revelation before pooping out when we got to the chapters that contained fewer OT references.

That's not why I stopped. I stopped because I had set out to show you that the book of Revelation isn't difficult to understand, and this was so by merely matching up the language of Revelation with OT references.
You can do that yourself. My other purpose was showing how the book of Revelation is intimately related to the book of Deuteronomy. You showed no interest in this. So having shown you how to find the answers you were seeking, I left you to it.

 

[studier]

I will say that he helped me understand the first part of Revelation before pooping out when we got to the chapters that contained fewer OT references.

Credit where credit is due. Same goes for any tradition that has something right that a free agent can glean from or find agreement with.

 

[studier]

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Yes @Rufus , Jacob was a prevail-er, and concordantly, we are overcomers.

It's easy to get the picture here. I sure hope that you come to terms with the obvious truth of the matter eventually.....

Big word, "hope". Nice we have something easier to hope in.

 

[cv5]

I would say not even analogous.

The Monergistic super-determinists need to understand the Jude 1:12 term "twice dead".
And then the Luke 10:30 "half dead" (as well as the full meaning of that parable).

According to Jesus God, twice dead is truly and finally dead. Separated forever in the lake of fire.
Then and only then is someone truly irredeemable. Jesus, Who is outside of time, uses this "future dead" term all the time.

As He does the term "future alive" aka eternal life.

We are privileged to discern neither state with any certainty. Because only the Eternal One can truly discern eternity. We can make educated guesses however......

 

[Magenta]

My Bible says I can know. Must be some are reading a different Bible or not reading the Bible at all.

It must be too that being convinced and/or fully persuaded don't mean the same things to some as they do to others.

 

[GWH]

That's not why I stopped. I stopped because I had set out to show you that the book of Revelation isn't difficult to understand, and this was so by merely matching up the language of Revelation with OT references.
You can do that yourself. My other purpose was showing how the book of Revelation is intimately related to the book of Deuteronomy. You showed no interest in this. So having shown you how to find the answers you were seeking, I left you to it.

Back to being typical I see.
FYI, I was helped by your guidance and disappointed you stopped/left/
(pooped :^)

 

[Cameron143]

Back to being typical I see.
FYI, I was helped by your guidance and disappointed you stopped/left/
(pooped :^)

Typical what? Having to explain my actions because they are misrepresented?

And I showed you how to get your own answers. Do you want me to give you a fish everyday? Or do you want to know how to fish?

The answers I gave you were part of a larger narrative. Even in providing the answers, if you don't understand how the answers make sense inside a larger narrative, you will simply have a series of unrelated answers. But the answers are related and ignoring that, what was the point? I had already showed you how to answer your own questions.

 

[Magenta]

We all hold some truth in error. While I don't believe his manner of communication is always edifying, as far as I know he does
believe Jesus is God and his faith is based in the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Good enough for me on a forum.

The problem, or part of the problem anyways, is that people like him refuse to admit when they have been
found to be in error, and that is also part of their problem overall, because their lack of honesty combined
with their elevated sense of self will not allow them to even acknowledge the obvious. And when that
stubborn refusal kicks in, they become spitefully hateful and project it all outward, as if it is going to stick,
simply because they cannot find it in their miserly little heart to graciously admit error. And it is not like
there is a whole lot written about the annunciation, so it is not possible to claim Mary was asked when no
such interpretation of what is actually written could be said to put forth that idea. She was informed.
But out of this refusal to admit that Mary was not asked was the sick retort of therefore, one must believe
God raped Mary. Well, first of all, we all, at least I hope we all, agree, that physical sexual intercourse did not
happen and was not necessary by any stretch of the imagination to produce Jesus. Secondly, Mary consented.
This just goes to show what a sick mind resorts/reverts to when their lack of honesty takes over. That such
a sick idea was floated in the first place, and claimed to be the belief of others who simply stated what
Scripture actually says, is not what I would ever hope to hear coming from the mind of a Christian. But
I know you are gracious. I know the other to be a liar on multiple counts. I can't say I know his eternal status.

 

[Rufus]

By experiencing enough of life--especially misery--to realize their need for God (cf. the Prodigal Son)
and then by exercising the volition He provides every morally accountable soul to ask/seek/knock
and find God/GW/Christ. (MT 7:7) Yay! PTL!
(Let's have some wine--and bread! :^)

Many are called (invited) but few are chosen.

So believers, then, are smarter or more pious or more humble because they have figured out what the miseries of life are all about, while their far more numerous counterparts are dumber, without piety or just plain ol' proud. The difference within sinners are sinners themselves.

 

[Rufus]

I do not see in that passage where Moses says that Bezaleel and Oholiab were not consenting to be used in this way and their work on the tabernacle was monergistically achieved. Synergism does not deny that God can give skills to particular people He chooses, for them to use working together with God to achieve His will..

You have not presented a text here that proves monergism as you assert it.

PS. I did not say "synergism is taught throughout the bible".

And you never will see it since all the Lord's statements are UNQUALIFIED. Therefore, I still by my interpretation. I see no limits or conditions being imposed upon any of the people mentioned in the passage.

 

[studier]

Many are called (invited) but few are chosen.

So believers, then, are smarter or more pious or more humble because they have figured out what the miseries of life are all about, while their far more numerous counterparts are dumber, without piety or just plain ol' proud. The difference within sinners are sinners themselves.

Since Jesus informed that God is seeking those who will bow in obeisance to Him in Spirit and Truth, maybe the ones ultimately with some deep down humility and true piety that gets brought to the surface do end up being smarter to choose life than the arrogant who enjoy the darkness and ultimately choose to remain there.