1 Corinthians 3:6-7 I planted the seed and Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God Who makes things grow.
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Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
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1 Corinthians 3:6-7 I planted the seed and Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God Who makes things grow.
For WHOSE sins? Did Paul write 1Cor to the world or to believers?
Also, since you claim that Christ died "for our sins" = the sins of all men w/o exception, then you must believe in universal salvation. After all, the same apostle wrote elsewhere:
Gal 1:3-4
3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself FOR OUR SINS to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
NIV
Christ giving himself "for our sins" = "Christ died for our sins". But in this latter passage when Christ "gave himself for our sins", God's purpose and will in that atoning work was to rescue everyone from this present evil age; therefore, all mankind is saved. You can't separate God's purpose from his will for his Son. In this particular passage, Christ gave himself to existentially rescue/deliver/pluck out/tear out EVERYONE he gave himself for from this present evil age.
Also, since you claim that Christ died "for our sins" = the sins of all men w/o exception, then you must believe in universal salvation. After all, the same apostle wrote elsewhere:
Gal 1:3-4
3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself FOR OUR SINS to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
NIV
Christ giving himself "for our sins" = "Christ died for our sins". But in this latter passage when Christ "gave himself for our sins", God's purpose and will in that atoning work was to rescue everyone from this present evil age; therefore, all mankind is saved. You can't separate God's purpose from his will for his Son. In this particular passage, Christ gave himself to existentially rescue/deliver/pluck out/tear out EVERYONE he gave himself for from this present evil age.
You did not get that impression. You made it up and posted it as a fact when you had absolutely nothing to base it on.
That is called bearing false witness. You had a list of things you made up and decided were true based on your sick imagination.
1 John 4:8b~ God is Love
That is called bearing false witness. You had a list of things you made up and decided were true based on your sick imagination.
1 John 4:8b~ God is Love
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Here's another one for you Mister brother Billy Bob, sir!
Galatians 5:14, Ecclesiastes 12:13, Romans 13:10b The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
That is one @TabinRivCA should appreciate, as she is always encouraging me to employ more men in my panels!
Galatians 5:14, Ecclesiastes 12:13, Romans 13:10b The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
That is one @TabinRivCA should appreciate, as she is always encouraging me to employ more men in my panels!
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When God withholds mercy on some, does that make Him unfair or unjust? Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?You must get very downcast every time you read scripture!
Just remember, none deserve this kindness and mercy even though some receive it!
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When God withholds mercy on some, does that make Him unfair or unjust? Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
You must get very downcast every time you read scripture!
Just remember, none deserve this kindness and mercy even though some receive it!
John 8:43, 47, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:8, John 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” John 8:47 “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
When God withholds mercy on some, does that make Him unfair or unjust? Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
You must get very downcast every time you read scripture!
Just remember, none deserve this kindness and mercy even though some receive it!
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
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Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good? 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”
This owner was certainly unjust!
Heh, it is certainly difficult for me to believe you do not say that in jest. And I was a late-comer myself, for I was well along in my 50th year when I discovered... yes, I discovered, that I needed no more convincing of the Truth of God's revealed written Word. It was not some decision I made to believe at all. And honestly this idea that people just choose their beliefs is about as baffling as anyone claiming they have free will when the whole world is under the influence of the evil one and people are captive to the will of the devil. Oh, yes, I get it, people choose to believe that Scripture does not mean what is plainly says! That part I get... They choose to ignore that Scripture says the natural man cannot, can NOT, receive nor comprehend the spiritual things of God. Defined as darkness they are, which does not comprehend the Light... nor can all hear as many assert. Baffling, still, that these things are routinely denied and brushed aside as if Jesus Himself did not say such things.
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When God withholds mercy on some, does that make Him unfair or unjust? Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?You must get very downcast every time you read scripture!
Just remember, none deserve this kindness and mercy even though some receive it!
Are you downcast?
Yes, some receive it, some reject it; God initiates; souls cooperate--or not.
Your handicap is that you have wedded yourself to a concept that is not mentioned in the bible: monergism. This means that every word or phrase in scripture you interpret through that fictitious lens.
Synergism, however, does appear more than once once in the Bible, literally,
16:20 ἐκεῖνοι δὲ ἐξελθόντες ἐκήρυξαν πανταχοῦ τοῦ κυρίου συνεργοῦντος καὶ τὸν λόγον βεβαιοῦντος διὰ τῶν ἐπακολουθούντων σημείων Ἀμήν
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him (Συνεργοῦντες ), beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
συνεργέω, συνεργῷ; imperfect 3 person singular συνήργει; (συνεργός, which see); from Euripides, Xenophon, Demosthenes down; Vulg.cooperor ((in 2 Corinthians 6:1adjuco)); to work together, help in work, be a partner in labor:
It is not "EITHER God does something OR we do it".
Because of your bewitchment into the priesthood of monergism, you seem blinded to the way God works together with us and we work together with Him to get things done, including salvation.
Synergism, however, does appear more than once once in the Bible, literally,
16:20 ἐκεῖνοι δὲ ἐξελθόντες ἐκήρυξαν πανταχοῦ τοῦ κυρίου συνεργοῦντος καὶ τὸν λόγον βεβαιοῦντος διὰ τῶν ἐπακολουθούντων σημείων Ἀμήν
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him (Συνεργοῦντες ), beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
συνεργέω, συνεργῷ; imperfect 3 person singular συνήργει; (συνεργός, which see); from Euripides, Xenophon, Demosthenes down; Vulg.cooperor ((in 2 Corinthians 6:1adjuco)); to work together, help in work, be a partner in labor:
It is not "EITHER God does something OR we do it".
Because of your bewitchment into the priesthood of monergism, you seem blinded to the way God works together with us and we work together with Him to get things done, including salvation.
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Of course. The Scripture is predicated upon a FREE WILL relationship between God and men.
[Mat 21:28 KJV]
But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[Mat 21:29 KJV]
He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[Mat 21:30 KJV]
And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not.
[Mat 21:31 KJV]
Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
[Mat 21:32 KJV]
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
[Mat 21:33 KJV]
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
[Mat 21:34 KJV]
And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
[Mat 21:35 KJV]
And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
[Mat 21:36 KJV]
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
[Mat 21:37 KJV]
But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
[Mat 21:38 KJV]
But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
[Mat 21:39 KJV]
And they caught him, and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].
[Mat 21:40 KJV]
When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
[Mat 21:41 KJV]
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out [his] vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[Mat 21:42 KJV]
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[Mat 21:43 KJV]
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[Mat 21:44 KJV]
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[Mat 21:28 KJV]
But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[Mat 21:29 KJV]
He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[Mat 21:30 KJV]
And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not.
[Mat 21:31 KJV]
Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
[Mat 21:32 KJV]
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
[Mat 21:33 KJV]
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
[Mat 21:34 KJV]
And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
[Mat 21:35 KJV]
And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
[Mat 21:36 KJV]
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
[Mat 21:37 KJV]
But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
[Mat 21:38 KJV]
But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
[Mat 21:39 KJV]
And they caught him, and cast [him] out of the vineyard, and slew [him].
[Mat 21:40 KJV]
When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
[Mat 21:41 KJV]
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out [his] vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
[Mat 21:42 KJV]
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[Mat 21:43 KJV]
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[Mat 21:44 KJV]
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
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