Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

Philippians 3:3; Colossians 2:11; Romans 2:29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Ah! Another one affirming we put no confidence in the flesh, unlike the free willers... who have the man of the flesh, which opposes the things of the Spirit, who can neither receive nor understand them... deciding to believe the foolishness they represent to him.

 

[Kroogz]

I get it now, these comments finally opened my eyes to the reason this conversation can go on and on without any kind of understanding or common ground between each other ever being reached. One side is diving deeper into the truths of Gods, debating in good faith and trying to present their side as plainly as they can using scripture anytime asked, "where do you get that from".


The other side does not share the same goal, they have one mission and one mission alone. I did think it was taking credit for some part of their own salvation, to reinforce in their minds that they have some kind of control and responsibility for being saved. I was wrong I think. After reading these two comment it became clear to me, that's not their ultimate goal, their ultimate goal is to attack and destroy any and everything John Calvin. They HATE him do much it's debilitating, they hate him more than democrats hate Trump.

They are so far from God, truth, and His power is foreign to them that they can not possible understand what he means and is talking about that they make their whole salvation about destroying anything they even perceive to be Calvin adjacent. They're not working "for God", they're working "against Calvin". It makes so much more sense in this context. I knew the CDSC ran wild on here, but I never put it together that it's there WHOLE SHOW, God can go sit down with His glory in the back, they have some Calvinist (only in their deluded minds thought) to go destroy. It's just sad.

Calvin shmalvin. He wasn't even responsible for bringing "tulip" into the mainstream. Everybody knows what 'calvinsim' means.....reformed theology.

We do not share your goal.

Our goal is to share the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to ALL. Because The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL.

Put yourself in the mind of an unbeliever reading through all the reformed theology posts.......I just as well eat, drink and be merry.

There is no merit in putting ones faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You Believe. I believe.....There is no merit in our belief.

So WHOSOEVER can believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Post after post ,the reformed folks say, " No way man, you are scum of the earth and can't believe to be saved.".......What is an unbeliever to do with that "gospel" message?

 

[Cameron143]

Calvin shmalvin. He wasn't even responsible for bringing "tulip" into the mainstream. Everybody knows what 'calvinsim' means.....reformed theology.

We do not share your goal.

Our goal is to share the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to ALL. Because The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL.

Put yourself in the mind of an unbeliever reading through all the reformed theology posts.......I just as well eat, drink and be merry.

There is no merit in putting ones faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You Believe. I believe.....There is no merit in our belief.

So WHOSOEVER can believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Post after post ,the reformed folks say, " No way man, you are scum of the earth and can't believe to be saved.".......What is an unbeliever to do with that "gospel" message?

Can you repost the posts that say this?

 

[GWH]

No you do not. And you prove you do not with your lies.

So why don't you clarify what you believe as I just did? IOW, how would you transform what I said into what you would say?

Here is my statement: GWH glorifies God for loving all of humanity and gracing every sinner with sufficient volition
so they may seek salvation, find the Gospel, choose to follow Christ and so be saved.

Yours? Magenta ....

 

[Kroogz]

Can you repost the posts that say this?

Come on brother. It would do you well to put yourself in the mind of an unbeliever and go back and read the reformed theology responses. Any searching or curious unbeliever would not see one post from your camp that proclaimed the Gospel. All they hear is "you can't see nor hear the gospel to be saved."

You're totally depraved and natural. You can't understand His Gospel.

Your message is DEATH to an unbeliever, not the message of LIFE From Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

Come on brother. It would do you well to put yourself in the mind of an unbeliever and go back and read the reformed theology responses. Any searching or curious unbeliever would not see one post from your camp that proclaimed the Gospel. All they hear is "you can't see nor hear the gospel to be saved."

You're totally depraved and natural. You can't understand His Gospel.

Your message is DEATH to an unbeliever, not the message of LIFE From Christ.

What people post here concerning their beliefs on the outworking of salvation is hardly how they would approach evangelism. And I haven't read any post that has called anyone scum.

 

[Rufus]

Nobody could ever hate anyone more than dems hate MAGA, but how ironic for you (whose dogma
indicates/implies divine hatred for the non-elect) to accuse those (whose interpretation of Scripture
glorifies God for His omnilove, including for Calvinists) of hatred!

"Omnilove" (if it existed) would contradict a large body of scriptures, e.g. Lev 26:30; Deut 25:16; Job 12:21-22; Ps 5:5-6; 11:5; 15:1-5; 31:6; 45:7; 73:18-20; 95:10-11; 101:3; Prov 3:32; 6:16-19; 11:20; 2Chron 19:2; Lam 2:6-7; Hos 9:15; Nah 1:14; Dan 12:2; Rom 9:13. And these passages don't include what the Psalmists thought about the ungody to wit: Ps 119:113, 158, 163; 139:21-22.

You clearly have more than a few blind spots when it comes to God's truth. God clearly loves all who are godly, God-fearing, righteous, holy, good and faithful. IOW, He loves dearly all those in His Beloved who ALONE met all this criteria.

 

[Rufus]

Come on brother. It would do you well to put yourself in the mind of an unbeliever and go back and read the reformed theology responses. Any searching or curious unbeliever would not see one post from your camp that proclaimed the Gospel. All they hear is "you can't see nor hear the gospel to be saved."

You're totally depraved and natural. You can't understand His Gospel.

Your message is DEATH to an unbeliever, not the message of LIFE From Christ.

When the Gospel is preached or shared in love, then it's incumbent upon the Christian to not hold back on the very bad news of it. Hearers must understand that they are in the hands of an angry God and will remain in that condition until they cry out to him to save them. Unbelievers are not merely sick with a little head cold; the spiritual disease (sin) that racks their entire body, soul, mind and heart is fatal unless they call out to God to heal (save) them.

 

[Rufus]

Calvin shmalvin. He wasn't even responsible for bringing "tulip" into the mainstream. Everybody knows what 'calvinsim' means.....reformed theology.

We do not share your goal.

Our goal is to share the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to ALL. Because The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL.

Put yourself in the mind of an unbeliever reading through all the reformed theology posts.......I just as well eat, drink and be merry.

There is no merit in putting ones faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You Believe. I believe.....There is no merit in our belief.

So WHOSOEVER can believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Post after post ,the reformed folks say, " No way man, you are scum of the earth and can't believe to be saved.".......What is an unbeliever to do with that "gospel" message?

The DEAD cannot do anything. Except when it comes to FW fairy tales. Then the DEAD have unbelievable power that even rivals God's!

 

[BillyBob]

Calvin shmalvin. He wasn't even responsible for bringing "tulip" into the mainstream. Everybody knows what 'calvinsim' means.....reformed theology.

We do not share your goal.

Our goal is to share the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to ALL. Because The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL.

Put yourself in the mind of an unbeliever reading through all the reformed theology posts.......I just as well eat, drink and be merry.

There is no merit in putting ones faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You Believe. I believe.....There is no merit in our belief.

So WHOSOEVER can believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Post after post ,the reformed folks say, " No way man, you are scum of the earth and can't believe to be saved.".......What is an unbeliever to do with that "gospel" message?

If Christ died for all, then no one need worry! I'm sure that He did not die in vain!

Rom 3:11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.

However, for those who the Father gave to Him – they will be equipped to believe and put their trust in Him!

The reformed theology is Biblical in that it gives all glory to God, rather than trying to rob Him of His glory. Unless He first renews us, we do not have the ability to approach Him on His terms. And, if we seek Him on our terms and understanding, He will not listen and we go away thinking we were saved when in fact we never were.

 

[Rufus]

Calvin shmalvin. He wasn't even responsible for bringing "tulip" into the mainstream. Everybody knows what 'calvinsim' means.....reformed theology.

We do not share your goal.

Our goal is to share the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to ALL. Because The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL.

Oh...you wax so self-righteous, as though the Reformed don't share your goal! Why would we not share your goal since none of us know who the elect are? Therefore, we would want to share Christ with as many people as possible -- just not for your reason I red-highlighted.

 

[Magenta]

So why don't you clarify what you believe as I just did? IOW, how would you transform what I said into what you would say?

Here is my statement: GWH glorifies God for loving all of humanity and gracing every sinner with sufficient volition
so they may seek salvation, find the Gospel, choose to follow Christ and so be saved.

Yours? Magenta ....

Without asking me any questions about what I believed or any dialogue concerning my views on salvation you
up and declared I blaspheme God by ascribing hatred of humanity to Him when I have never said or done any
such thing, and in fact, my every post proclaims His love. Try getting honest... though I rarely see such liars repent.
Then you pretend I am debating some straw man when I am addressing specific things said in these threads by
certain people over and over and over again. You did not say them? Bully for you.

 

[studier]

When the Gospel is preached or shared in love, then it's incumbent upon the Christian to not hold back on the very bad news of it. Hearers must understand that they are in the hands of an angry God and will remain in that condition until they cry out to him to save them. Unbelievers are not merely sick with a little head cold; the spiritual disease (sin) that racks their entire body, soul, mind and heart is fatal unless they call out to God to heal (save) them.

The DEAD cannot do anything. Except when it comes to FW fairy tales. Then the DEAD have unbelievable power that even rivals God's!

You're a typing contradiction.

The angry God who loved the world by sending His Son and demonstrated His love by having Him die for sinners.

What a mess...

 

[Magenta]

Come on brother. It would do you well to put yourself in the mind of an unbeliever and go back and read the reformed theology responses. Any searching or curious unbeliever would not see one post from your camp that proclaimed the Gospel. All they hear is "you can't see nor hear the gospel to be saved."

You're totally depraved and natural. You can't understand His Gospel.

Your message is DEATH to an unbeliever, not the message of LIFE From Christ.

No, that is the opposite of what is said, since we proclaim life in Christ and heart circumcision precede coming to believe, for the natural man can neither receive nor comprehend the spiritual things of God, and the gospel message is foolishness to him, being a corrupt tree which cannot bring forth good fruit, taken captive to the will of the devil, a lover of darkness, a slave to sin, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. Goodness. These things are explicitly stated in a number of ways in Scripture. What is said is that God must do a work on the man... it is known as various things in the Bible and spoken of many times, things such as opening someone's mind, opening someone's heart, opening someone's eyes, opening someone's ears, circumcising the heart, raised to new life in Christ. These are things Jesus does, and came to do. This gives all glory to God unlike the free willer, who takes credit -or gives credit to the natural man- for choosing to believe the right thing even though Scripture says he is incapable of submitting. I wonder why you rail so vehemently against what Scripture plainly states.

 

[Kroogz]

Yeah, got em all fired up!

Everyone here knows where I stand.

John 3:16 Acts 16:31......ANYONE who believes will Be saved. Jesus Christ died for ALL.

John 10:28~~ None will perish. NONE. We are eternally secure. With Eternal life. Sealed. Nothing Separates us from His Love.

If we don't follow His Plan for our lives....We lose temporal blessing, eternal blessings, we may have shame at His coming, we may be saved as if through fire.....But we WILL ENTER His kingdom.

Reformed theology........You stupid little person, You can't understand what I KNOW. So it is your fault that you can't understand my superior intellect.

 

[Kroogz]

What people post here concerning their beliefs on the outworking of salvation is hardly how they would approach evangelism. And I haven't read any post that has called anyone scum.

Yeah, you have to LIE to an unbeliever. I Don't.

If they come to me, I can Tell them the truth.....The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL men, and He asks That you believe in Him to be saved.

You have to tell them, jesus died for some men, you can't believe it until he saves you. He may have died for you, no one knows. Good luck!

 

[NOV25]

Not at all. Here is my doctrine regarding heresy:

The kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per MT 7:1&5, 2CR 13:5-8).

A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (EPH 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. JN 17:20-23, “May they be one…”).

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2CR 4:5 & CL 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

You should slow down a little. You’re so eager to show everyone how smart you that you missed my joke-the joke you most definitely walked into 😏

Not to mention, I’ve already read your kerygma and discussed it with you at length-you probably don’t remember because, well… see paragraph 1.

To jog your memory, I’m the guy who said your kerygma seemed like something out of the Catholic playbook-which it absolutely does. Are you Catholic by chance?

 

[Kroogz]

You should slow down a little. You’re so eager to show everyone how smart you that you missed my joke-the joke you most definitely walked into 😏

Not to mention, I’ve already read your kerygma and discussed it with you at length-you probably don’t remember because, well… see paragraph 1.

To jog your memory, I’m the guy who said your kerygma seemed like something out of the Catholic playbook-which it absolutely does. Are you Catholic by chance?

If he says he's not, he sounds like it.

It's always amazing that we get indicted for 'not understanding.' And it is what we glean from their teachings.

Teachers who should not be teaching IMO.

 

[Cameron143]

Yeah, you have to LIE to an unbeliever. I Don't.

If they come to me, I can Tell them the truth.....The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL men, and He asks That you believe in Him to be saved.

You have to tell them, jesus died for some men, you can't believe it until he saves you. He may have died for you, no one knows. Good luck!

How do I lie. I share the gospel. I tell them about the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Is that a lie?

 

[Magenta]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.