Understanding God’s election

[cv5]

You keep regurgitating the same ol' scriptures that you misunderstand and, therefore, misinterpret. Repeating a lie incessantly will never magically transform it into the truth. All the post-fall commands in the bible do not speak to any ability of the spiritually dead; rather it speaks to man's responsibility before God. Have you never read that man's way is not in himself?

Jer 10:23
23 I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not in himself;
Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.
NASB

Your comprehension of Near East thought is abysmal, the same as most other Calvinites.

And of course you cannot answer this post. Or any other of mine.
The best you can do is hurl more TULIP nuttery at them, and then run back into your gopher hole.

https://christianchat.com/threads/understanding-god’s-election.216907/post-5399200

 

[ocean]

Since you broached those terms, now go stand in the mirror and answer this question: Was David a New Covenant or Old Covenant believer? Be sure to get back to us with your answer.

And what part of this truth can't you understand:

Rom 11:29
29 ...for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
NIV

And to what covenant does this truth apply: New or Old Covenant?

And finally, please tell us which of your above derogatory terms did freely choose for yourself?

Kindly illustrate from scripture where we are told the Holy Spirit indwells a person before salvation as the cult of Calvin claims.

 

[ocean]

Calvin was God's gift to his Church at a critical time during church history. So...there is that...

Uh huh. Tell that to Servetus and various other people who dared to question anything the very much Catholic persuaded Calvin did. Are you aware there is actually no record of Calvin ever accepting Christ? His Catholic beginnings greatly influenced his beliefs and actions.

 

[Rufus]

Your comprehension of Near East thought is abysmal, the same as most other Calvinites.

And of course you cannot answer this post. Or any other of mine.
The best you can do is hurl more TULIP nuttery at them, and then run back into your gopher hole.

https://christianchat.com/threads/understanding-god’s-election.216907/post-5399200

So you find Jer 10:23 as "more TULIP nuttery", heh? And this proves once again just how much you free will lovers disdain the scriptures and elevate you own pet theological traditions, presuppositions and assumptions to the level of scripture -- just like the Pharisees did.

P.S. Educate me on what your "comprehension of Near East thought" is. I'm always up for a good belly laugh.

 

[Rufus]

Uh huh. Tell that to Servetus and various other people who dared to question anything the very much Catholic persuaded Calvin did. Are you aware there is actually no record of Calvin ever accepting Christ? His Catholic beginnings greatly influenced his beliefs and actions.

So...now you're going to argue from silence that Calvin was never a Christian?

 

[ocean]

You just been deceived.

Well, if you are going to go ahead and draw such conclusions, at least try to get the grammar right. You have been deceived would be the proper way to word such an accusation. Otherwise, you simply sound ignorant. I said sound, I did not say you were, but nonetheless people will draw conclusions when such a grammatical error stares them in the face.

On the other hand, be careful with such accusations. This thread is not about me, so the typical personal attack that is the choice of implement for most diehard Calvinists, is not valid. I would say that Calvin was very much deceived though.

 

[ocean]

So...now you're going to argue from silence that Calvin was never a Christian?

Check the record. I have done extensive research on his 'work'. I have noticed that Calvinists love to call up the dead to create what they believe is credible proof of what they beleaguer people with. Follow Jesus. He is alive. Calvin is dead. Possibly more dead than some might think.

Argue? Thought this was the Bible Discussion Forum. Perhaps remember that. It could help you to temper your responses.

 

[rogerg]

Could it be that FREE WILL and CHOICE is integrated into the very fabric of creation itself?

Furthermore, Genesis 3 proves that Holy God, fallen Satan, unfallen Adam and the Woman and post-fall Adam and the Woman
ALL were exercising their free will and choice in the course of that account.

The concepts of salvation exclusively through a Savior sent by God, and salvation through free will and choice, fundamentally contradict and oppose each other, indicating that only one can be correct. Therefore, a choice between the two must be made, and it appears from your posts that you have already done so, whether consciously or not. Salvation by free will and choice are, by definition, works for salvation, as they are the sole responsibility of the recipient to achieve. However, scripture is quite clear that salvation cannot be attained through anyone's work, except for the work of Christ. On the other hand, salvation, as given by a Savior, must inherently be complete, not necessitating any external elements in order to fulfill the purpose for which He was sent - otherwise He wouldn't be the Savior. That salvation, given solely by a Savior, fully eliminates the need for, or possibility of, our works, and satisfies the biblical injunction against works. Conversely, if someone were to attempt achieving salvation by trusting in their own free will and choice, despite the inevitable failure of such efforts, they nevertheless remove for themselves the Savior from their salvation.

Regarding Adam & Eve, they had free will but only before their fall, not afterwards.

 

[Magenta]

I have a question for you, Mr. Genez: When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, do you believe that was a gracious act by the Savior? If not, why?

Eh? Lazarus did not raise himself from death??? Whatever are you talking about?

Hey, Rufus, what do you think? Do you think when Jesus said He could raise up stones to be children of Abraham, that those stones would bitterly complain that they had no say in the matter, and call God a monster for violating them?
My Bible says the mountains and hills will burst into song before God, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands, but we have people who profess to be Christians who complain about God being sovereign!

 

[brightfame52]

Well, if you are going to go ahead and draw such conclusions, at least try to get the grammar right. You have been deceived would be the proper way to word such an accusation. Otherwise, you simply sound ignorant. I said sound, I did not say you were, but nonetheless people will draw conclusions when such a grammatical error stares them in the face.

On the other hand, be careful with such accusations. This thread is not about me, so the typical personal attack that is the choice of implement for most diehard Calvinists, is not valid. I would say that Calvin was very much deceived though.

I got the point across and its not intended to be a personal attack.

 

[Cameron143]

Eh? Lazarus did not raise himself from death??? Whatever are you talking about?

Hey, Rufus, what do you think? Do you think when Jesus said He could raise up stones to be children of Abraham, that those stones would bitterly complain that they had no say in the matter, and call God a monster for violating them?
My Bible says the mountains and hills will burst into song before God, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands, but we have people who profess to be Christians who complain about God being sovereign!

Rumor has it that God is also conforming Christians into the image of Christ, and resistance is being met with chastisement. Just brutal. Pretty soon I expect to hear reports that once God saves someone, He will not withdraw His affections despite protests.

 

[Magenta]

Rumor has it that God is also conforming Christians into the image of Christ, and resistance is being met with chastisement. Just brutal. Pretty soon I expect to hear reports that once God saves someone, He will not withdraw His affections despite protests.

I thank God for His persistence in pursuing me despite all my defiance, rebellion, disbelief, and disobedience. I praise Him for his undying Love toward me.

 

[Cameron143]

I thank God for His persistence in pursuing me despite all my defiance, rebellion, disbelief, and disobedience. I praise Him for his undying Love toward me.

And all God's people say...AMEN!

 

[cv5]

The concepts of salvation exclusively through a Savior sent by God, and salvation through free will and choice, fundamentally contradict and oppose each other, indicating that only one can be correct. Therefore, a choice between the two must be made, and it appears from your posts that you have already done so, whether consciously or not. Salvation by free will and choice are, by definition, works for salvation, as they are the sole responsibility of the recipient to achieve. However, scripture is quite clear that salvation cannot be attained through anyone's work, except for the work of Christ. On the other hand, salvation, as given by a Savior, must inherently be complete, not necessitating any external elements in order to fulfill the purpose for which He was sent - otherwise He wouldn't be the Savior. That salvation, given solely by a Savior, fully eliminates the need for, or possibility of, our works, and satisfies the biblical injunction against works. Conversely, if someone were to attempt achieving salvation by trusting in their own free will and choice, despite the inevitable failure of such efforts, they nevertheless remove for themselves the Savior from their salvation.

Regarding Adam & Eve, they had free will but only before their fall, not afterwards.

Well. those words do not amount to a hill of beans if you fail to understand the SWEEPING EPIC DRAMA and CONCEPTUAL REALITY of the INITIAL CONDITIONS OF THE GARDEN and also of the END TIME SCENARIO where those in the tribulation CHOOSE the mark or REFUSE the mark.

These things I certainly do understand, and you certainly do not.
Lucky me huh?

Rev 14:9
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The Satan-man or the God-Man. Thems the choices. Same as it ever was.

 

[cv5]

So you find Jer 10:23 as "more TULIP nuttery", heh? And this proves once again just how much you free will lovers disdain the scriptures and elevate you own pet theological traditions, presuppositions and assumptions to the level of scripture -- just like the Pharisees did.

P.S. Educate me on what your "comprehension of Near East thought" is. I'm always up for a good belly laugh.

Calvinites are one verse wonders. A few zingers and time to wrap it up. Thats their game.

Tragically, this is standard operating procedure for the shallow student of Scripture BTW.

 

[brightfame52]

@rogerg

Regarding Adam & Eve, they had free will but only before their fall, not afterwards.

Except they weren't free from the purpose of God that they sin, since Christ had already been purposed to die for their sins from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Names were already written in the Lambs book of life before Adam was created

 

[rogerg]

Well. those words do not amount to a hill of beans if you fail to understand the SWEEPING EPIC DRAMA and CONCEPTUAL REALITY of the INITIAL CONDITIONS OF THE GARDEN and also of the END TIME SCENARIO where those in the tribulation CHOOSE the mark or REFUSE the mark.

These things I certainly do understand, and you certainly do not.
Lucky me huh?

Rev 14:9
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The Satan-man or the God-Man. Thems the choices. Same as it ever was.

You are just unable to grasp the concept of a Savior
Your verses are not talking about cause but effect.
Their labor and deeds are a consequence of their salvation, not the cause of it.

 

[MeowFlower]

Well the bible does say that the entire [unsaved] world lies under the power of the evil one.

In the power of the evil one.

Satan is the antithesis. We are his unless God calls us.

 

[Rufus]

Check the record. I have done extensive research on his 'work'. I have noticed that Calvinists love to call up the dead to create what they believe is credible proof of what they beleaguer people with. Follow Jesus. He is alive. Calvin is dead. Possibly more dead than some might think.

Argue? Thought this was the Bible Discussion Forum. Perhaps remember that. It could help you to temper your responses.

What is there to check if history is silent on Calvin's conversion? And I do follow Jesus. After all he did say once upon a time:

John 6:65
65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him ."
NIV

Surprise, surprise. The Lord did not say that no one can come to me unless they exercise their "sovereign free will".

 

[Magenta]

Jesus’ words in John 6:65