Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

Paul was given the gift to heal. Right?
But?

2 Timothy 4:20​

​

Erastus stayed in Corinth, ​

and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus."​

​

Problem with your thinking...

You over simplify...
Snip out of context, and put a wall around it.
Then dig your heels in.
Then, go looking for cheerleaders to join in with you.

You are looking for a 'gang.'

A non sequitur. We're not talking about the gifts of healing. We're talking about the gift of the Holy Spirit. Give me one passage in the bible that teaches that God is an Indian-giver! Have you never read:

2 Cor 1:18-22
18 But as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not "Yes" and "No ." 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by me and Silas and Timothy, was not "Yes" and "No ," but in him it has always been "Yes." 20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God. 21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come?
NIV

But now you and your sidekick are trying to deceive us into believing that God talks out of both sides of his mouth -- just like you guys and other worldlings do! I suppose next, you will tell us that I'm oversimplifying v. 21 that teaches that God will never let any of his elect fall -- because he MAKES (in your universe that would mean FORCES us) to stand against our will. And then next, you'll likely tell us that we mere mortals can thwart God's purpose and break his "seal of ownership", which means he really hasn't guaranteed anything because we mere mortals of clay can undo anything God has done. So God is essentially blowing smoke up our nether regions. God is lying to us because he really can't make such a promise because he must leave room for the sons of men to execute their "sovereign free" will.

It's no wonder that Paul pronounced a strong curse (twice over yet!) against all purveyors of false gospels.

 

[MeowFlower]

On that theme, it is apparent to some (if not many) that the Calvinistas could be the Pharisees of today!

Calvinistas, Calvenites, etc....
You have much hate in your heart . That's sad.

 

[MeowFlower]

I feel free not to waste my time.

You are not as important as you see yourself being.

Your lack of credibility has been revealed in what you proclaimed.
And, too many see through your inability to grasp what you are shown.
and wishing to recreate what you want to see..

Its come down to...…

Why should I bother with you, when others here already see you are wrong.
And, those who line up with you? Make them know its group think, and nothing more.

We are so blessed Jesus never said such things .

It is amazing how many hateful people are in this community. Arrogant,snide,condescending, pride-filled. Wrong.
Amazing.

 

[cv5]

Calvinistas, Calvenites, etc....
You have much hate in your heart . That's sad.

Actually it's wry humor that you fail to appreciate. That's sad.

 

[cv5]

Let's start with this CRITICAL question ...
Do you understand the deplorable condition of the human race?
i.e. that they are all born with an inherited sin nature
i.e. that they are greatly hindered by their mortal enemy,
Satan and his fallen angels (evil spirits, demons)

It's quite obvious what you do not understand:
The initial conditions of the creation (actually re-creation).

-God DIVIDED the darkness from the light but did not destroy the darkness, both are present, right here right now today.
-God intentionally placed the two trees in the Garden for all to see both Angels and men,
and all parties new where they were and why they were.

In the new creation, there is no more darkness there is no more sea.
All darkness and evil is cast into the lake of fire, never to return.

So why this arrangement and sequence? Could it be FREE WILL CHOICE?

 

[Genez]

Translate: Oh....due to my superficial knowledge of the scriptures, which runs about as deep as a mud puddle, I plumb forgot about the Old and New covenants and how radically different they are and that king David was an OC saint, as were Saul and Sampson who suffered loss of the Holy Spirit. My mind's in a blender; I just can't remember... But I'm just too dishonest and duplicitous to publicly confess my shortcomings.

And quit flattering yourself and your fellow comrades. The only things you guys have shown me is that you and your ilk will go to any lengths to pervert the Gospel of Jesus Christ because you have such unjustifiably high opinions of yourselves -- just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day.

You know too much to claim what you do is not intentional....

 

[MeowFlower]

Actually it's wry humor that you fail to appreciate. That's sad.

No,it isn't wry humor.

 

[Genez]

Calvinistas, Calvenites, etc....
You have much hate in your heart . That's sad.

Not all hate is a bad thing....

Psalm 97:10


Let those who love the Lord hate evil,
for he guards the lives of his faithful ones
and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.


False doctrine is evil.

 

[MeowFlower]

Not all hate is a bad thing....

Psalm 97:10


Let those who love the Lord hate evil,
for he guards the lives of his faithful ones
and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

That isn't referring to hate as you understand the emotion today. Because we are told hate is not a characteristic of those in Christ.

1 John 3:14-15
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

False doctrine is evil.

Doctrine isn't evil nor good by itself. Those who promote false teachings can be ignorant,unaware,unconscious,of God's truth.

That isn't evil. Because unless someone is changed by Holy Spirit God to know his truth they may believe they are conscious of God's truth and yet not be.

Then there are those worldly people who are evil. And create a corrupt ideology that glorifies self as savior. And some make of themselves an idolatrous teacher image so to Garner followers of their way.
Joel Osteen is an example.

Teaching that God pays us in material reward for proclaiming his lordship.

That's Satanic. That is evil.

 

[brightfame52]

@Rufus

Was David a New Covenant or Old Covenant believer? Be sure to get back to us with your answer.

Good question, I would say a New Covenant believer, because its the Everlasting Covenant set forth in time, hence David knew of the Everlasting Covenant from a few scriptures Ps 25:14

14 The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Ps 103:17-18


17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

2 Sam 23:5

5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

 

[cv5]

No,it isn't wry humor.

Yes it is.

And for you to erroneously perceive my remarks as hateful must be because they are issuing from a hateful heart.

 

[cv5]

It's quite obvious what you do not understand:
The initial conditions of the creation (actually re-creation).

-God DIVIDED the darkness from the light but did not destroy the darkness, both are present, right here right now today.
-God intentionally placed the two trees in the Garden for all to see both Angels and men,
and all parties new where they were and why they were.

In the new creation, there is no more darkness there is no more sea.
All darkness and evil is cast into the lake of fire, never to return.

So why this arrangement and sequence? Could it be FREE WILL CHOICE?

Could it be that FREE WILL and CHOICE is integrated into the very fabric of creation itself?

Furthermore, Genesis 3 proves that Holy God, fallen Satan, unfallen Adam and the Woman and post-fall Adam and the Woman
ALL were exercising their free will and choice in the course of that account.

And if you would care to hear the lectures that I earlier posted @rogerg @Rufus , you would know this as I do.

 

[MeowFlower]

Yes it is.

And for you to erroneously perceive my remarks as hateful must be because they are issuing from a hateful heart.

I agree. Reread your heart that posted that sentence."Issuing", was your responsibility per the aforementioned post.

You identified yourself in first person there.

This concludes our discussion.

 

[Rufus]

No,it isn't wry humor.

Well...it's hate masquerading as "wry humor". Worldlings simply hate the really bad news side to the Gospel -- that those in Adam are by nature vile, wretched, deplorable, despicable, desperately wicked, profane, sinful deceitful, naked, poor and helpless and are in dire need of being rescued -- the way the Good Samaritan rescued the half dead victim of criminals or God rescued the ancient Israelites from Egypt. The world cannot tolerate the doctrine of Total Depravity because the doctrine puts man at the opposite end the spectrum that is holy, righteous and good, which is the Creator and Redeemer himself. Just as Adam has the dubious distinction of always being contrasted with Christ in scripture, so it is with his progeny who come into this world as antichrists. And if it weren't for God electing to rescue helpless men and women to become saints, not one human being would ever come to Christ. No, not one!

 

[Rufus]

Could it be that FREE WILL and CHOICE is integrated into the very fabric of creation itself?

Furthermore, Genesis 3 proves that Holy God, fallen Satan, unfallen Adam and the Woman and post-fall Adam and the Woman
ALL were exercising their free will and choice in the course of that account.

And if you would care to hear the lectures that I earlier posted @rogerg @Rufus , you would know this as I do.

A&E had free will since they were not encumbered by the world and a sinful nature. They were indeed totally free TO believe God and, therefore, be obedient to Him. But post fall man is a totally different story.

 

[cv5]

A&E had free will since they were not encumbered by the world and a sinful nature. They were indeed totally free TO believe God and, therefore, be obedient to Him. But post fall man is a totally different story.

Wrong again.

"fallen Satan, unfallen Adam and the Woman and post-fall Adam and the Woman"

To further this line of reasoning, let me ask you this:
Why does the Restrainer allow the Satan-man the AC to rise to the pinnacle of power 3-1/2 years before the Coming of the God-Man Jesus Christ? I mean there they are practically SIDE BY SIDE in time and place. WHY?

Think Genesis 3 two trees.
Think Deu 30:19.
Think Joshua 24:15.

Anyone could back up the truck and add HUNDREDS of passages and chapters with the same message.

 

[MeowFlower]

A&E had free will since they were not encumbered by the world and a sinful nature. They were indeed totally free TO believe God and, therefore, be obedient to Him. But post fall man is a totally different story.

Agreed. God's sovereignty and dominion over his creation precludes the created from being imbued with the capacity to freely overcome that.

Verse By Verse Ministry
https://versebyverseministry.org › ...
Where in the Bible does the teaching on “free will” originate?

Feb 9, 2013 — "Free will" theology is the view that faith in the Gospel is a matter of personal choice unrelated to the work of God in the heart.

 

[Rufus]

Agreed. God's sovereignty and dominion over his creation precludes the created from being imbued with the capacity to freely overcome that.

Verse By Verse Ministry
https://versebyverseministry.org › ...
Where in the Bible does the teaching on “free will” originate?

Feb 9, 2013 — "Free will" theology is the view that faith in the Gospel is a matter of personal choice unrelated to the work of God in the heart.

Well the bible does say that the entire [unsaved] world lies under the power of the evil one.

 

[cv5]

A&E had free will since they were not encumbered by the world and a sinful nature. They were indeed totally free TO believe God and, therefore, be obedient to Him. But post fall man is a totally different story.

Not according to Genesis 3.
You know.....according to God Himself.
And as I have already proven time and time again.

And yes, those lectures that I posted regarding Genesis 3 are the finest commentary available and totally accurate.

 

[Rufus]

Wrong again.

"fallen Satan, unfallen Adam and the Woman and post-fall Adam and the Woman"

To further this line of reasoning, let me ask you this:
Why does the Restrainer allow the Satan-man the AC to rise to the pinnacle of power 3-1/2 years before the Coming of the God-Man Jesus Christ? I mean there they are practically SIDE BY SIDE in time and place. WHY?

Think Genesis 3 two trees.
Think Deu 30:19.
Think Joshua 24:15.

Anyone could back up the truck and add HUNDREDS of passages and chapters with the same message.

You keep regurgitating the same ol' scriptures that you misunderstand and, therefore, misinterpret. Repeating a lie incessantly will never magically transform it into the truth. All the post-fall commands in the bible do not speak to any ability of the spiritually dead; rather it speaks to man's responsibility before God. Have you never read that man's way is not in himself?

Jer 10:23
23 I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not in himself;
Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.
NASB