Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
[Act 2:39 KJV]
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
That verse should be understood in light of 2:39 as its "promise" is foundational to both verses.
It is never the responsibility of the Promisee to satisfy the promise, but the Promisor. According to 2:39, that Promisor was God. Therefore, it was He alone who did so, or such a promise would never/could never have been made by Him - He never reneges on His promises, nor does He leave open the possibility of its failure. The "For" of 2:39, links the two verses. The "repent", "baptized", therefore, were commands made in the earthly but symbolic of what had been achieved by God through Christ in the spiritual - man had no part in the actual accomplishment in the spiritual, otherwise, 2:38 would contradict itself - for it only by the "name of Jesus Christ" that there is remission of sins - both can't be true, and per 2:39, it was only by the promise of God. This is also confirmed by 2:37. Because they were "pricked in their heart", they had first been given a new heart of flesh by God, they having been born-again; it was not possible with an old heart of stone.
The "gift of the Holy Ghost" is not the same thing as being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. Being indwelt, occurs from spiritual rebirth and is permanent; the "receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost", occurred during Pentecost and several other times for certain specific spiritual purposes and was temporary lasting only for those purposes.
[
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
That verse should be understood in light of 2:39 as its "promise" is foundational to both verses.
It is never the responsibility of the Promisee to satisfy the promise, but the Promisor. According to 2:39, that Promisor was God. Therefore, it was He alone who did so, or such a promise would never/could never have been made by Him - He never reneges on His promises, nor does He leave open the possibility of its failure. The "For" of 2:39, links the two verses. The "repent", "baptized", therefore, were commands made in the earthly but symbolic of what had been achieved by God through Christ in the spiritual - man had no part in the actual accomplishment in the spiritual, otherwise, 2:38 would contradict itself - for it only by the "name of Jesus Christ" that there is remission of sins - both can't be true, and per 2:39, it was only by the promise of God. This is also confirmed by 2:37. Because they were "pricked in their heart", they had first been given a new heart of flesh by God, they having been born-again; it was not possible with an old heart of stone.
The "gift of the Holy Ghost" is not the same thing as being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. Being indwelt, occurs from spiritual rebirth and is permanent; the "receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost", occurred during Pentecost and several other times for certain specific spiritual purposes and was temporary lasting only for those purposes.
[
Naw your just avoiding responding also with this tactic haha that’s my position anyways 😅
abut I have no Will to argue and go in the same circle you two won’t actually respond to what I say and apparently I’m not responding to what you’ve said either but it’s definately a circle . Sort of a silly subject to me anymore anyways it’s pretty clear to me that Gods Will is for everyone to be saved so he gave his only son and whoever believes in him will be saved
The only way anyones ever gonna know about Jesus is by hearing the gospel bit people preach fantasy and fable now days and very very little actually of what Jesus promised would save our souls . Sad really to me but it’s all foretold in scripture so idk .
i do know that I’ve never once in three years or something ever seen anyone change there mind in a discussion lol but once , one time only . I’m sure it’s happened other times but the bizarre subject were on isn’t going anywhere it seems so simple to just read the Bible and accept what the gospel says but idk man
abut I have no Will to argue and go in the same circle you two won’t actually respond to what I say and apparently I’m not responding to what you’ve said either but it’s definately a circle . Sort of a silly subject to me anymore anyways it’s pretty clear to me that Gods Will is for everyone to be saved so he gave his only son and whoever believes in him will be saved
The only way anyones ever gonna know about Jesus is by hearing the gospel bit people preach fantasy and fable now days and very very little actually of what Jesus promised would save our souls . Sad really to me but it’s all foretold in scripture so idk .
i do know that I’ve never once in three years or something ever seen anyone change there mind in a discussion lol but once , one time only . I’m sure it’s happened other times but the bizarre subject were on isn’t going anywhere it seems so simple to just read the Bible and accept what the gospel says but idk man
On the contrary yeah I do inderstsnd a promise
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
that’s a promise of salvation and call to all creation ….Peter had just received the spirit and began preaching about Jesus the messiah and his death and resurrection to them …..then after that they say “ what shall we do ?”
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. ( he’s called all creatures to believe the gospel and be saved )
( notice they don’t just magically know he’s right but he continues to pursuade and exhort them about jesus and then they convert )
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
Acts 2:38-41 KJV
Everyone has been called to repentance and life some won’t have it though we’re free to reject the gospel it should be evident But not advised
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
John 12:48 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
that’s a promise of salvation and call to all creation ….Peter had just received the spirit and began preaching about Jesus the messiah and his death and resurrection to them …..then after that they say “ what shall we do ?”
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. ( he’s called all creatures to believe the gospel and be saved )
( notice they don’t just magically know he’s right but he continues to pursuade and exhort them about jesus and then they convert )
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
Acts 2:38-41 KJV
Everyone has been called to repentance and life some won’t have it though we’re free to reject the gospel it should be evident But not advised
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
John 12:48 KJV
Well, why is the "shall be saved" in the future tense? When someone believes, don't they become immediately saved? The same with Mark 16:15? There is a reason, but probably not what you'd think. Check out the tenses and let me know why you think they've been rendered that way.
Were it a promise to all creation, then by that promise, all must become saved. It can't both be a promise yet remain an unfulfilled promise by God. And by Peter telling them that it was only through God's promise, in effect, made clear to them that there was nothing they would, could, or should do, because they were already of those called unto salvation by God.
Sure, people are taught about Christ, but those chosen, will and must come to a belief in Him - but they just don't magically know the gospel. Through those who preach to them, they are actually being taught it by God - but God does not do so for everyone - only for His chosen - therefore, those saved will and must come to a true belief in Christ, the others, not.
[Jhn 6:44-45 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
You stopped reading too soon. Only those that "should be saved" does God add to His true church.
The "Save yourself from this untoward generation" means to separate oneself in spiritual matters from non-believers
[Act 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Or is it that they have been blinded spiritually to it? If blinded as scripture states they are, then it would be impossible for them to believe in Christ until and unless that is, God saves them, at which time, they will come to spiritually see and believe.
[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Everyone who rejects Christ, will be judged on the last day. Those judged will be those not of the chosen.
[Jhn 10:26-27 KJV]
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[Mat 25:33-34 KJV]
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[Mat 25:41 KJV]
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Were it a promise to all creation, then by that promise, all must become saved. It can't both be a promise yet remain an unfulfilled promise by God. And by Peter telling them that it was only through God's promise, in effect, made clear to them that there was nothing they would, could, or should do, because they were already of those called unto salvation by God.
Sure, people are taught about Christ, but those chosen, will and must come to a belief in Him - but they just don't magically know the gospel. Through those who preach to them, they are actually being taught it by God - but God does not do so for everyone - only for His chosen - therefore, those saved will and must come to a true belief in Christ, the others, not.
[Jhn 6:44-45 KJV]
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
You stopped reading too soon. Only those that "should be saved" does God add to His true church.
The "Save yourself from this untoward generation" means to separate oneself in spiritual matters from non-believers
[Act 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Or is it that they have been blinded spiritually to it? If blinded as scripture states they are, then it would be impossible for them to believe in Christ until and unless that is, God saves them, at which time, they will come to spiritually see and believe.
[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Everyone who rejects Christ, will be judged on the last day. Those judged will be those not of the chosen.
[Jhn 10:26-27 KJV]
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[Mat 25:33-34 KJV]
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[Mat 25:41 KJV]
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
I am interpreting RM 1:20 in light of RM 7:18, "I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature."
We can infer that God's nature is good or righteousness itself, which is described as love in 1JN 4:12-16, which is the main attribute of the HS.
RM 3:20 says, "No one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."
We can infer that God's nature is good or righteousness itself, which is described as love in 1JN 4:12-16, which is the main attribute of the HS.
RM 3:20 says, "No one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."
yes a lot of good scriptures there roger …..
“Well, why is the "shall be saved" in the future tense? “
because it’s a promise Jesus made to those who believe the gospel …..it’s always been the promise
you don’t promise something someone already has you promise then something your going to give them based on what you actually promised . Why wouldn’t it be future tense ? It’s true now that anyone who believes the gospel shall be saved ……
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:13 KJV
The gospel is Gods promise of salvation to all creation. But it’s for anyone and everyone and the only way for any of us.
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
This is who the promise is made to
“preach the gospel to every creature.”
And it’s a double edged sword it leads to one of two outcomes inevitably salvation from the coming wrath and inheritance in gods kingdom or damnation and destruction in this case
“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; ( blotted out of his book of life ) when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
This is the parenthesis from that last scripture
( because our testimony among you was believed)
The apostles were sent to witness the gospel and testify of the lord Jesus christ and share the message he annointed them to preach and whoever believes that message …. Would be and will still today now . If a person hasn’t heard about Jesus of they hear about him and his death for thier sins and resurrection and doesn’t then reject what he said in the gospel which are his promises to all who believe
“Well, why is the "shall be saved" in the future tense? “
because it’s a promise Jesus made to those who believe the gospel …..it’s always been the promise
you don’t promise something someone already has you promise then something your going to give them based on what you actually promised . Why wouldn’t it be future tense ? It’s true now that anyone who believes the gospel shall be saved ……
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:13 KJV
The gospel is Gods promise of salvation to all creation. But it’s for anyone and everyone and the only way for any of us.
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
This is who the promise is made to
“preach the gospel to every creature.”
And it’s a double edged sword it leads to one of two outcomes inevitably salvation from the coming wrath and inheritance in gods kingdom or damnation and destruction in this case
“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; ( blotted out of his book of life ) when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
This is the parenthesis from that last scripture
( because our testimony among you was believed)
The apostles were sent to witness the gospel and testify of the lord Jesus christ and share the message he annointed them to preach and whoever believes that message …. Would be and will still today now . If a person hasn’t heard about Jesus of they hear about him and his death for thier sins and resurrection and doesn’t then reject what he said in the gospel which are his promises to all who believe
