Understanding God’s election
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This parable is an explanation of the kingdom of God being taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles. So any consideration of salvation is secondary. But since you brought it up, Luke 14:23 says...compel them to come. What is that compelling all about?
And you still haven't dealt with the fact that Jesus said that He will build His church on the revelation of the Father that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. What is this teaching in your opinion?
And you still haven't dealt with the fact that Jesus said that He will build His church on the revelation of the Father that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. What is this teaching in your opinion?
I'll do better than that by pointing you to post #8751, in which Rufus acknowledged that "What Natural Revelation can do is act as a stepping stone to Special Revelation wherein the Gospel is revealed", so why won't you?
What Natural Revelation can do is exactly like what the OT law can do per Paul. Of course, this assumes Special Revelation is possible. In cases where it is impossible, Paul indicates (in CL 1:23, RM 10:13-18, GL 3:8) that c&c or GenRev serves as a sort of provisional or proto-Gospel. (Perhaps those souls are "the spirits in prison" to whom Jesus preached after his death per 1PT 3:18-19.)
What Natural Revelation can do is exactly like what the OT law can do per Paul. Of course, this assumes Special Revelation is possible. In cases where it is impossible, Paul indicates (in CL 1:23, RM 10:13-18, GL 3:8) that c&c or GenRev serves as a sort of provisional or proto-Gospel. (Perhaps those souls are "the spirits in prison" to whom Jesus preached after his death per 1PT 3:18-19.)
While I agree God could employ it as a stepping stone, you failed to answer the question: how many does Paul say come to faith this way? What does he say happens to each one who knows God this way?
The moment you introduce God into the equation, you have altered what Paul has been claiming because it no longer is what man can know by creation, but by a direct act of God upon the individual.
The moment you introduce God into the equation, you have altered what Paul has been claiming because it no longer is what man can know by creation, but by a direct act of God upon the individual.
“What is that compelling all about? “
this
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38
He doesnt say I’ll magically force some to believe and others I’ll never give them any chance ….he told his servants to compel them …that doesn’t mean Peter then went around forcing and magically enabling some but not others lol
And you still haven't dealt with the fact that Jesus said that He will build His church on the revelation of the Father that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. What is this teaching in your opinion?
yeah I already told you the gospel is the revelation that Jesus is the son of God
You act as if believing the gospel won’t save anyone like God said or rather that God chooses one an to be able to be saved and another he is chosen to be damned. The things you come up with just work to go in circles to cling to fables.
But then again you are one of the chosen ones that god has respect for
this
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38
He doesnt say I’ll magically force some to believe and others I’ll never give them any chance ….he told his servants to compel them …that doesn’t mean Peter then went around forcing and magically enabling some but not others lol
And you still haven't dealt with the fact that Jesus said that He will build His church on the revelation of the Father that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. What is this teaching in your opinion?
yeah I already told you the gospel is the revelation that Jesus is the son of God
You act as if believing the gospel won’t save anyone like God said or rather that God chooses one an to be able to be saved and another he is chosen to be damned. The things you come up with just work to go in circles to cling to fables.
But then again you are one of the chosen ones that god has respect for
That is not true because the question has always been, does God reveal the gospel through His creation, and the answer is no, He reveals His existence... And that is what Cameron has been trying to get at all along, but people are averse to admitting the truth of the matter. You post quite often the verse from Mark about going into all the world to preach the gospel...
Romans 10:13-15 ~ Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
I think it’s true I was reading his responses he raises a new question every post to avoid what the other person said that’s my own experience
“does God reveal the gospel through His creation, and the answer is no,”
first I heard of that question . And not really sure what it even means so I can’t really say anything I mean he did choose apostles to preach the gospel and say anyone who believes them would be saved . And that thier words who were filled with his spirit would be how people believed …..
But it just gets ignored
“I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
John 17:6, 8-9, 20-21 KJV
Some seem to need to add thier thinking “ only if God chooses to magically reveal something to you but not others “ but that part doesn’t exist in scripture he sent out apostles chosen sent messengers to witness the gospel to all people
that’s how people are able to believe in Jesus they hear and accept the gospel the witness he sent to us
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
consider that part just mark 16 there . Look how God enables them
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
Acts 10:42-44 KJV
you guys have to add the secret choosing part God spoke words because humans understand words . If you remove the message of the gospel being preached nonone could believe it’s the only thing that can get a person to believe they have to hear the real gospel that’s how we receive the spirit and that’s what helps us
“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? ( No ne ever heard of Jesus and his message before he sent the apostles out with the message ) and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?( the apostles were the sent messengers of the lord who carried his message of salvstion o to the world ) as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:14-15, 17 KJV
the gospel is the revelation of Gods good will and peace towards mankind
“does God reveal the gospel through His creation, and the answer is no,”
first I heard of that question . And not really sure what it even means so I can’t really say anything I mean he did choose apostles to preach the gospel and say anyone who believes them would be saved . And that thier words who were filled with his spirit would be how people believed …..
But it just gets ignored
“I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
John 17:6, 8-9, 20-21 KJV
Some seem to need to add thier thinking “ only if God chooses to magically reveal something to you but not others “ but that part doesn’t exist in scripture he sent out apostles chosen sent messengers to witness the gospel to all people
that’s how people are able to believe in Jesus they hear and accept the gospel the witness he sent to us
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
consider that part just mark 16 there . Look how God enables them
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
Acts 10:42-44 KJV
you guys have to add the secret choosing part God spoke words because humans understand words . If you remove the message of the gospel being preached nonone could believe it’s the only thing that can get a person to believe they have to hear the real gospel that’s how we receive the spirit and that’s what helps us
“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? ( No ne ever heard of Jesus and his message before he sent the apostles out with the message ) and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?( the apostles were the sent messengers of the lord who carried his message of salvstion o to the world ) as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:14-15, 17 KJV
the gospel is the revelation of Gods good will and peace towards mankind