Understanding God’s election
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1) How does a "sign" establish anything? A sign is a representation of what has occurred and now is but not being that which caused it.
2) Did you miss these verses? The eternal covenant God made with Abraham was not to his physical seed but to his spiritual seed.
[Rom 4:11-13 KJV]
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
2) Did you miss these verses? The eternal covenant God made with Abraham was not to his physical seed but to his spiritual seed.
[Rom 4:11-13 KJV]
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
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Yes, I know that, and? But His spiritual covenant is still in effect. He is through with the earthly nation of Israel. Wasn't there a non-compliance section of God's covenant with Israel? Seems to me there was one. Both sides (God and the Israel) had to live up to their respective stipulations given and required for its continuation, with dissolution of the covenant and punishment rendered for violations. Israel chose not to be not in compliance, hence, the divorce, termination of the covenant, and associated punishment.
Yes and its actually a covenant God made with Christ before the foundation and revealed to Abraham his Inerest in it Gal 3 16-18
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Christ here is Christ Mystically, meaning Him and His chosen seed in Him, they are one, hence vs 29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Vs 28 shows that race, sex, position in society plays no part in this Covenant, its dependent on who God chose in Christ before the foundation to be His Seed
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Christ here is Christ Mystically, meaning Him and His chosen seed in Him, they are one, hence vs 29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Vs 28 shows that race, sex, position in society plays no part in this Covenant, its dependent on who God chose in Christ before the foundation to be His Seed
Gods physical covenant with national israel was primarily for them, but it wasnt spiritual, and it wasnt the Abrahamic Covenant which was confirmed to Abe 0ver 400 yrs before the mosaic law national covenant Gal 3:16-18
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance[Salvation] be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
The national covenant with moses was a conditional covenant, but the Abrahamic Covenant was a unconditional covenant and it was heavenly and spiritual, and salvific !
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance[Salvation] be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
The national covenant with moses was a conditional covenant, but the Abrahamic Covenant was a unconditional covenant and it was heavenly and spiritual, and salvific !
I didn't know covenants were physical entities.
You fail to understand that physical circumcision was but a mere foreshadow of the much greater circumcision not made by human hands? Don't you know that under the NEW COVENANT physical circumcision means NOTHING? You truly believe that Jews in this current NC age must go back to those weak and beggarly elements of the Old Covenant? Don't you know that the OC is now obsolete and gave way to the much superior NC? And don't you know that physical descent means NOTHING to God? That ALL the chosen people of God are his children because they are "children of promise".
You're another who interprets scripture backwards! You read the OT into the New, instead of going with ALL that IS NEW and different and understanding the Old in light of the New. In the scheme of progressive revelation we are to understand older revelation in the light of the eternal New Covenant.
You fail to understand that physical circumcision was but a mere foreshadow of the much greater circumcision not made by human hands? Don't you know that under the NEW COVENANT physical circumcision means NOTHING? You truly believe that Jews in this current NC age must go back to those weak and beggarly elements of the Old Covenant? Don't you know that the OC is now obsolete and gave way to the much superior NC? And don't you know that physical descent means NOTHING to God? That ALL the chosen people of God are his children because they are "children of promise".
You're another who interprets scripture backwards! You read the OT into the New, instead of going with ALL that IS NEW and different and understanding the Old in light of the New. In the scheme of progressive revelation we are to understand older revelation in the light of the eternal New Covenant.
Your effectively claiming that because Israel was chosen for the purpose of the Messiah.
That Israel would have the smallest number of people saved, a mere remnant.
God's pleasure was to harden Israel, to alienate His chosen people from salvation.
It would appear that to be the chosen people means almost every Israelite is damned.
What a wonderful and kind God we have.
That Israel would have the smallest number of people saved, a mere remnant.
God's pleasure was to harden Israel, to alienate His chosen people from salvation.
It would appear that to be the chosen people means almost every Israelite is damned.
What a wonderful and kind God we have.
The text of the letter to the Romans is not a spiritual text.
The text of Romans is a small letter a mere sixteen pages of text sent to Rome from Corinth.
Paul said that Israel was hardened and the Gentiles were grafted in.
That is not a spiritual text as that is what really happened to Israel, severed from Jesus Christ.
Comprehending the text of Romans is not a spiritual exercise.
It is whether you believe what the text is saying is the spiritual component.
Did Jesus die for our sin and rise again (Romans 10:9) can be understood by anyone.
Whether you believe the death and resurrection itself is spiritual.
The text of Romans is a small letter a mere sixteen pages of text sent to Rome from Corinth.
Paul said that Israel was hardened and the Gentiles were grafted in.
That is not a spiritual text as that is what really happened to Israel, severed from Jesus Christ.
Comprehending the text of Romans is not a spiritual exercise.
It is whether you believe what the text is saying is the spiritual component.
Did Jesus die for our sin and rise again (Romans 10:9) can be understood by anyone.
Whether you believe the death and resurrection itself is spiritual.
Your equating a text in any letter with whether the simple text is believed to be true.
Jesus rose on the third day (1 Corinthians 15) is a simple text, if you believe that Jesus rose
on the third day is the spiritual reality.
Anyone can read the New Testament and understand what is written.
Even the Old Testament prophecies can be read and understood by anyone.
Jesus rose on the third day (1 Corinthians 15) is a simple text, if you believe that Jesus rose
on the third day is the spiritual reality.
Anyone can read the New Testament and understand what is written.
Even the Old Testament prophecies can be read and understood by anyone.