Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[DADZ]

Are their openly professing gay people in here? If there are, biblical counseling says we are take them to the side and discuss the issue with them, even after this, when we see no repentance, we take another brother or sister, only after pleading and help and continual refusal to listen do we bring them in front of the church and ask them to confess, if they refuse, we ask Them to leave and not come back until they repent,

is this what’s going on here?

yeah I do criticize, I criticize people who call out certain sins judge them while ignoring their own sin, your not going to win a lost soul by judging a sin issue, they must come to Jesus first and be born again, then and only then can they find healing,

Great post. I feel sorry for those who focus on sin, and think they have to try and achieve something they know they can never do. God convicts people of their sin, we dont need to bring it up to them.
Sometimes there are gray areas, and some of our brothers or sisters might want advice, or some may think certain things are ok, but its pretty obvious it isnt, and we might show them why, but certainly, none of that leads to the only and one ultimate goal, salvation.
If someone were to openly state that the Bible doesnt condemn homosexuality, then I will sound off against them, otherwise no need.

People who go around judging people for their sin are driving people away from the love of Jesus. The commands Jesus specifically stated were to love God, love your neighbor and go spread the good news that if you believe in Jesus, and accept his gift of salvation, and accept the Holy Spirit that can now enter your temple because it has been cleaned by the blood of Jesus, then you are saved. Period. No more need to harp on the law. Wanting to follow the law will come naturally

Even Paul said, if you focus on the law, it only makes you sin no more.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

ahh yes, more personal attacks coming from sheer ignorance, since I havent touched a drop in over 30 years

Again, pot, meet kettle. 😏
Seems to be your go to move.

 

[Sipsey]

Not sure if thise is what you mean. But the Greek word translated sin “hamarton” literally means to miss the mark

so to sin is to miss the mark

What is the mark is the question? According to romans 3 it is the glory of God..is this perfection?

You are correct. The mark in question was this woman’s particular pattern of sin. Here is a short summation that hopefully says better, what I was trying to say, maybe too concisely;

In saying, “Go and sin no more,” Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices. His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of “grace and truth” (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God’s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15).

When we turn to Christ and receive His forgiveness, we experience a heart change (Luke 9:23; Acts 1:8). Forgiveness is not cheap, and it does not excuse the sin that separated us from God. It cost God everything to offer us the cleansing that pronounces us righteous before Him (John 3:16; 15:13). Rather than continue in the self-centered path that led us astray from Him to begin with, the forgiven can walk in God’s path (Luke 14:27). A move toward God is a move toward righteousness, purity, and holy living (1 Peter 1:16; Romans 8:29). We cannot experience the transforming power of forgiveness without being forever changed.

It goes without saying that the woman caught in adultery did not return to her infidelity. She had met Jesus. She would not be perfect. No one is. But she was forever changed. Her eyes had been opened to the depravity of what she was doing. Sin no longer held the appeal it once did. When we meet Jesus, sin no longer holds its fatal attraction. Grace changes things. “Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2).When we are born again (John 3:3), the power of the Holy Spirit breaks the power that sin once had over us (Romans 6:6). Once we lived only to please ourselves, but when we have been forgiven, our motivation changes. We now live to please God (Galatians 2:20).

It should be the goal of every Christian to “sin no more,” although we recognize that, while we are in the flesh, we will still stumble (1 John 1:8). God’s desire for each of us is to be holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16). We still sin, but sin is no longer a lifestyle choice (1 John 3:9–10). When we fail, we can come to God and ask forgiveness (1 John 1:9; 1 Peter 4:1–2). And if we are truly God’s children, He will correct us, disciplining us when we need it (Hebrews 12:6–11). His work is to conform us to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29).

 

[DADZ]

Sinning against another person who is made in the image of God is sinning against God, for example: dishonoring your parents, murder, adultery, theft, lying, coveting.

Jesus is God. Loving God means being obedient to Him and His moral law, and loving others includes not sinning or trespassing against them.

Under your antinomian view, if the parable of the good Samaritan is put in today's context, if he believed he was saved because he said a sinners prayer and "repented", it would be perfectly alright for this "good" Samaritan, after he saw the injured and brought the injured to a hospital, to then go and find the injured's home, commit adultery with the injured's wife, satisfy his pedophilia by raping the injured's 9 year old daughter, steal the injured's valuables, and curse God for his being a half-breed Samaritan. According to your view, the good Samaritan can live like the devil, because according to your view, all of his present and future sins have been forgiven, so he might as well have as much worldly pleasure as he can possibly muster.

Jesus's moral commands are for every generation. Because Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God, and was in the beginning with God, Jesus gave to Moses His moral law,, the Decalogue, the Ten Commandments: you shall not murder, lie, steal, commit adultery, covet, dishonor your parents, use God's name in vain, have any other gods, create and worship any graven image, do any work on the Sabbath.

You are not a Christian when you are living like the devil.

man, u r whacked, I truly pity you

 

[DADZ]

I condemn no one; only God condemns.


Love does not require affirmation or approval. In fact, love requires me to tell my heterosexual and homosexual brothers and sisters in Christ that they are living a lifestyle that will send them straight to hell if in fa

Repent and believe, put your faith trust, and rest in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. ❤

ok, you got that last sentence right. The FINISHED WORK, the work is finished. Done, Completed. the other sentence, people dont go to hell beccause of a lifestyle. They go to hell because they dont BELIEVE Jesus, just as adam and eve didnt believe God in the garden of eden.
Disbelief leads to rejection of the HOly Spirit. NO HS and you cant go to heaven.

And love does not REQUIRE you to tell people they are sinning and going to hell because of it, for two reasons. IT ISN'T EVEN TRUE. You go to hell because , see above.

And its not your posistion to judge others. Let the HS convict them. Your job is to show them the light, they way to salvation. In doing so, they will see the sin of themselves all on their own. Its not your place to point it out. If you point it out, it will only drive them away.

Dont harp on the negative, the sin. Harp on the positive, of the gift bestowed to them. In the OT they had to harp on sin because Jesus's gift of salvation hadn't come yet. But we who truly understand that gift do not go around judging , and driving away , people

 

[Mark47Oz]

how do we put our affairs in order? Either some of our sin has made us unfil to accept the Holy Spirit or none has. If none, we dont have to clean up anything. If even a little sliver of sin prevents us from accepting the HS, how do we atone for that sin? Sin can ONLY be atoned by the blood of Jesus. Does he have to die again?

Im not being argumentative, or combative, this is a legitimate question. Much of what I believed was challenged by a Christian Rabbi and it has shown me a lot about these things that I never saw before. I would like some real discussions, not insults being hurled at those who disagree with you.


has not the HS already come into you? If so, it cant leave, NOTHING can make it leave, Jesus said so. Once the HS is in you, you are in the hands of Jesus, and we all know the scripture of what Jesus said about that.


Its not a magic wand, but it is as simple as accepting the gift freely offered by God. Gift is the HS. and baptism is not needed. In fact, the history of baptism is fascinating. The pharisees questioned John why he was baptizing. Thing is, only gentiles were suppose to get baptized. WHY? And why was John, against the demands of the Pharisees to stop, baptizing Jews?
But you accept the HS, and it is done. Repentence comes as a natural consequence of wanting to follow Jesus now. The more I follow Jesus, the less I sin. If Im reading secular books and movies, but then I start reading the Bible more to follow Jesus, it naturally occurs that I have less time to do the other crap that leads to sin. Do u understand? This was explained to me recently and I changed my pov on things.



ok old man,,hahah, but I bet im older than you


Even Paul said, {"why do I do what I dont want to, and dont do what I should?" In Gods infinite wisdom, He gave us this struggle to live with. I would have to say, definately one of His great mysteries LOL



thats awesome, you a good man


Your temple was cleaned by Jesus. Or r u telling me that some of the stuff we do, we have to clean up the temple? How would we do that? Only the blood of Jesus can atone for our sin. Does He have to die again?

I'll just answer this in one reply, because I'll make a mess of the BB code if I cut up and respond point by point.

When I speak here in this thread I am speaking in two ways, of my own personal life experience and that of the general gay population. I have lived a very worldly life of sin and I know how the gay community thinks. I have always struggled to identify with the hedonistic lifestyle that was so very prominent in the 80's and 90's. The gay community itself has seen a seismic shift from endless anonymous sex with zero attachment to that of committed relationships. This in itself has led to the desire and creation of marriage as a way to legitimise these relationships. So while not proclaiming it fits within God's law, it is at least an improvement of human behaviour. I will very quickly add that I do not believe gay marriage is appropriate, I am just pointing out that the gay community has shifted from very very bad mortal sin to bad mortal sin. (Kind of a lesser of two evils thing)

As for cleaning your house for the Holy Spirit to enter, I mean that you must not be in a state of mortal sin. I'm RCC, so I don't know if the term is used widely in broader Christian circles. We define sin as being in 2 categories, Venial and mortal. A simple childlike explanation of the difference between the two is Venial sin is what makes God worried - like not praying enough, not reading scripture often, ignoring other people's requests for help etc etc Mortal sin on the other sin makes God angry - the 7 deadly sin of Gluttony, Lust, Vanity, Pride, Sloth, Wrath and Greed are all gateways to damnation and are mortal sins. Living in a state of mortal sin is where someone is trapped by their own behaviour in a repetitive state of one of these deadly sin. So, a gay person who is sexually active is in a state of mortal sin, because no sooner they repent of their sin, they are back at it again, making God angry.

The Holy Spirit will not enter, or will leave a person who is in a state of mortal sin because they are on a treadmill going nowhere. Such a person needs to change something in their life to get off that treadmill and repent, and atone for their sins. Atonement simply means an act to make their sin right, by stopping the sin and then making it up to God. So Stop drinking and make up for those lost years with your family would be a way an alcoholic would atone for instance. A gay person needs to stop having sex and repent. Then they must live their life in service of others to find their fulfillment and please God.

So, to clean your own temple start by asking yourself which of the 7 deadly sins am I a slave to? Everyone has at least one if them in their life. Then be honest with yourself and assess how it affects your relationship with God and your family. Then move toward repentance and atonement. This way the Holy Spirit will come down upon you and bring the true fire of the Love of God into your heart. You'll notice it happening because a subtle shift will happen in your life. Things that were tempting to you will no longer hold the attraction they once did., You'll feel this incredible longing to be closer and closer to Christ. You'll become holy. And then God can reveal his true plan for you and work with you.

Now is an incredible period of Grace. Move quickly and get close to Jesus while you can. For what comes next (and it is not that far away) will be a time that those without the love of Christ in their hearts will come to know the absolute depths of despair in.

 

[DADZ]

Again, pot, meet kettle. 😏
Seems to be your go to move.

wow, how do you get that? It must be sad to be u

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are correct. The mark in question was this woman’s particular pattern of sin. Here is a short summation that hopefully says better, what I was trying to say, maybe too concisely;

In saying, “Go and sin no more,” Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices. His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of “grace and truth” (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God’s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15).

When we turn to Christ and receive His forgiveness, we experience a heart change (Luke 9:23; Acts 1:8). Forgiveness is not cheap, and it does not excuse the sin that separated us from God. It cost God everything to offer us the cleansing that pronounces us righteous before Him (John 3:16; 15:13). Rather than continue in the self-centered path that led us astray from Him to begin with, the forgiven can walk in God’s path (Luke 14:27). A move toward God is a move toward righteousness, purity, and holy living (1 Peter 1:16; Romans 8:29). We cannot experience the transforming power of forgiveness without being forever changed.

It goes without saying that the woman caught in adultery did not return to her infidelity. She had met Jesus. She would not be perfect. No one is. But she was forever changed. Her eyes had been opened to the depravity of what she was doing. Sin no longer held the appeal it once did. When we meet Jesus, sin no longer holds its fatal attraction. Grace changes things. “Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2).When we are born again (John 3:3), the power of the Holy Spirit breaks the power that sin once had over us (Romans 6:6). Once we lived only to please ourselves, but when we have been forgiven, our motivation changes. We now live to please God (Galatians 2:20).

It should be the goal of every Christian to “sin no more,” although we recognize that, while we are in the flesh, we will still stumble (1 John 1:8). God’s desire for each of us is to be holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16). We still sin, but sin is no longer a lifestyle choice (1 John 3:9–10). When we fail, we can come to God and ask forgiveness (1 John 1:9; 1 Peter 4:1–2). And if we are truly God’s children, He will correct us, disciplining us when we need it (Hebrews 12:6–11). His work is to conform us to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29).

Amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Great post. I feel sorry for those who focus on sin, and think they have to try and achieve something they know they can never do. God convicts people of their sin, we dont need to bring it up to them.
Sometimes there are gray areas, and some of our brothers or sisters might want advice, or some may think certain things are ok, but its pretty obvious it isnt, and we might show them why, but certainly, none of that leads to the only and one ultimate goal, salvation.
If someone were to openly state that the Bible doesnt condemn homosexuality, then I will sound off against them, otherwise no need.

People who go around judging people for their sin are driving people away from the love of Jesus. The commands Jesus specifically stated were to love God, love your neighbor and go spread the good news that if you believe in Jesus, and accept his gift of salvation, and accept the Holy Spirit that can now enter your temple because it has been cleaned by the blood of Jesus, then you are saved. Period. No more need to harp on the law. Wanting to follow the law will come naturally

Even Paul said, if you focus on the law, it only makes you sin no more.

Yes, sin increases, it does not decrease.

put cookies in a cookie jar, and don’t say anything, a child will probably ignore it, or I. The least ask.

tell them they can’t have one, and they will do what they can to get one (steel)

a law does not stop sin, it gives temptation then judges when you sin

grace says I love you, removes the temptation, and sin decreases,

 

[DADZ]

I'll just answer this in one reply, because I'll make a mess of the BB code if I cut up and respond point by point.

When I speak here in this thread I am speaking in two ways, of my own personal life experience and that of the general gay population. I have lived a very worldly life of sin and I know how the gay community thinks. I have always struggled to identify with the hedonistic lifestyle that was so very prominent in the 80's and 90's. The gay community itself has seen a seismic shift from endless anonymous sex with zero attachment to that of committed relationships. This in itself has led to the desire and creation of marriage as a way to legitimise these relationships. So while not proclaiming it fits within God's law, it is at least an improvement of human behaviour. I will very quickly add that I do not believe gay marriage is appropriate, I am just pointing out that the gay community has shifted from very very bad mortal sin to bad mortal sin. (Kind of a lesser of two evils thing)

As for cleaning your house for the Holy Spirit to enter, I mean that you must not be in a state of mortal sin. I'm RCC, so I don't know if the term is used widely in broader Christian circles. We define sin as being in 2 categories, Venial and mortal. A simple childlike explanation of the difference between the two is Venial sin is what makes God worried - like not praying enough, not reading scripture often, ignoring other people's requests for help etc etc Mortal sin on the other sin makes God angry - the 7 deadly sin of Gluttony, Lust, Vanity, Pride, Sloth, Wrath and Greed are all gateways to damnation and are mortal sins. Living in a state of mortal sin is where someone is trapped by their own behaviour in a repetitive state of one of these deadly sin. So, a gay person who is sexually active is in a state of mortal sin, because no sooner they repent of their sin, they are back at it again, making God angry.

The Holy Spirit will not enter, or will leave a person who is in a state of mortal sin because they are on a treadmill going nowhere. Such a person needs to change something in their life to get off that treadmill and repent, and atone for their sins. Atonement simply means an act to make their sin right, by stopping the sin and then making it up to God. So Stop drinking and make up for those lost years with your family would be a way an alcoholic would atone for instance. A gay person needs to stop having sex and repent. Then they must live their life in service of others to find their fulfillment and please God.

So, to clean your own temple start by asking yourself which of the 7 deadly sins am I a slave to? Everyone has at least one if them in their life. Then be honest with yourself and assess how it affects your relationship with God and your family. Then move toward repentance and atonement. This way the Holy Spirit will come down upon you and bring the true fire of the Love of God into your heart. You'll notice it happening because a subtle shift will happen in your life. Things that were tempting to you will no longer hold the attraction they once did., You'll feel this incredible longing to be closer and closer to Christ. You'll become holy. And then God can reveal his true plan for you and work with you.

Now is an incredible period of Grace. Move quickly and get close to Jesus while you can. For what comes next (and it is not that far away) will be a time that those without the love of Christ in their hearts will come to know the absolute depths of despair in.

I mostly agree, or am ambivalent towards some, but the HS leaving you? SOrry man, that cant happen. Jesus said once a person is in his hands, saved, no one or anything can remove them.. Once saved always saved.

again, the rest I agree with or am ambi....... but the question is, if we can drive the HS out by too much mortal sin, then how much is too much? If I sin once a week, is that too much? Or once a month, or once a day, what if I sin alot and drive the HS out, but stop sinning and He comes back, then start sinning a lot again (very common in those trying to get clean and/or sober)

Plus, any sin I commit, is already atoned for. Its already forgiven for. In fact, it was forgiven, all of our sin, EVEN BEFORE WE WERE BORN.
That is kinda a weird thought, but its true. The bill has already been paid.

If I go to court for a ticket, (Christians love this analogy lol) and cant pay the fine, but a guy shows up and hands the judge a credit card that has infinite amount of funds, and says, I will pay for it. And for all future fines. If I say "ok, I will accept that", then all my fines are paid for, forever, ALL.
Because this guy did this for me, I am so grateful,, I do my best to drive better, at all times. I fail sometimes, but I try, and I do get better, sometimes backslide, but do return to getting better, but it still remains, all future fines are paid for. No act, if I truly accepted the guys gift, can change that.

 

[DADZ]

Yes, sin increases, it does not decrease.

put cookies in a cookie jar, and don’t say anything, a child will probably ignore it, or I. The least ask.

tell them they can’t have one, and they will do what they can to get one (steel)

a law does not stop sin, it gives temptation then judges when you sin

grace says I love you, removes the temptation, and sin decreases,

amen bro. Some here dont want to hear that message. I have a daughter, who is very strong willed. My adult son was visiting, while my dauhter was still in diapers.
I was working on a laptop on the floor, and while she was playing, occasionally she moved some of my stuff, which was making problems for me.

I told Dane, watch. Im gonna tell shereese not to cross a line Im gonna draw. She will do it at first, but she will look at the line, and then very subtly move towards it, inch by inch, until finally her foot is close, and she will be compelled to put a toe across the line, within 10 minutes i said. IT ONLY TOOK HER FOUR MIINUTES LOL

 

[DADZ]

don't lose your focus

AMEN.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

amen bro. Some here dont want to hear that message. I have a daughter, who is very strong willed. My adult son was visiting, while my dauhter was still in diapers.
I was working on a laptop on the floor, and while she was playing, occasionally she moved some of my stuff, which was making problems for me.

I told Dane, watch. Im gonna tell shereese not to cross a line Im gonna draw. She will do it at first, but she will look at the line, and then very subtly move towards it, inch by inch, until finally her foot is close, and she will be compelled to put a toe across the line, within 10 minutes i said. IT ONLY TOOK HER FOUR MIINUTES LOL

We are a pitiful race. Our flesh (pride) runs deep

 

[Mark47Oz]

I mostly agree, or am ambivalent towards some, but the HS leaving you? SOrry man, that cant happen. Jesus said once a person is in his hands, saved, no one or anything can remove them.. Once saved always saved.

again, the rest I agree with or am ambi....... but the question is, if we can drive the HS out by too much mortal sin, then how much is too much? If I sin once a week, is that too much? Or once a month, or once a day, what if I sin alot and drive the HS out, but stop sinning and He comes back, then start sinning a lot again (very common in those trying to get clean and/or sober)

Plus, any sin I commit, is already atoned for. Its already forgiven for. In fact, it was forgiven, all of our sin, EVEN BEFORE WE WERE BORN.
That is kinda a weird thought, but its true. The bill has
been paid.

If I go to court for a ticket, (Christians love this analogy lol) and cant pay the fine, but a guy shows up and hands the judge a credit card that has infinite amount of funds, and says, I will pay for it. And for all future fines. If I say "ok, I will accept that", then all my fines are paid for, forever, ALL.
Because this guy did this for me, I am so grateful,, I do my best to drive better, at all times. I fail sometimes, but I try, and I do get better, sometimes backslide, but do return to getting better, but it still remains, all future fines are paid for. No act, if I truly accepted the guys gift, can change that.

So, this is where my POV differs to yours.

Salvation is guaranteed by Baptism, yes. But salvation can be lost. Do you truly believe a man who murders, then repents and gets baptised then goes out and murders another 7 people and goes 'm'ehh I'm forgiven I don't need to repent' will be taken into the glory of heaven when they die? (I don't)

Yes, God does take away the gifts he gives out if you are belligerent. I was just watching a podcast with Francis Chan in it and he talks about an encounter with Benny Hinn and how Benny admitted that God has taken his annointing away from him because he wandered too far from the true word and was in it for himself.

The Holy Spirit might hang around and keep an eye on you, but he will definitely take away charisms. I have head many Charismatic Christians speak of this happening when they veer off the path God has laid out for them. It happened to me. I was once a highly charismatic catholic with dreams of priesthood. Then through a combination of betrayal and belligerence I went down a very dark path and far away from the glory of God. You bet he took all those blessings away from me. And I do not blame him for a second.

So again, my own experience and hearing the words of others confirms what I believe to be true.

 

[DADZ]

God's grace has been operative in the lives of man since the beginning of the world. God's grace was shown to Adam and Eve after they rebelled; to Cain after he murdered Abel; to Enoch when he was taken by God; etc, etc, etc.

You're referring to what you've been taught by the false teacher(s) you've been mentored by, which is the heretical "hyper grace." "For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude :4.

YOU DONT EVEN READ WHAT I POST.
BUT FOR OTHERS WHO MIGHT. :
John 1:16-17
For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (ESV)
Romans 3:23-24
... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus ... (ESV)
Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. (ESV)
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God ... (ESV)
God's grace wasnt bestowed upon us until his death.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people ... (ESV)

Grace wasnt bestowed upon us until His death. Grace and truth came through Jesus.
How do u figure adam and eve recived grace from God. He kicked them out of the garden of eden.

 

[DADZ]

We are a pitiful race. Our flesh (pride) runs deep

and despite our pitifullness, God still loves us and offers us the gift of grace. For that, Im eternally grateful.
I like it when people help me cuz they are grateful for what I have done for them, rather than because I pay them, or in fear of punishement from me if they dont help me

 

[DADZ]

God's grace has been operative in the lives of man since the beginning of the world. God's grace was shown to Adam and Eve after they rebelled; to Cain after he murdered Abel; to Enoch when he was taken by God; etc, etc, etc.

You're referring to what you've been taught by the false teacher(s) you've been mentored by, which is the heretical "hyper grace." "For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude :4.

John 1:16-17
For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (ESV)

 

[DADZ]

As the only openly gay person in this thread, I have suggested over and over that the debate is not and should not be whether homosexuality defined as sin in scripture. That's not up for debate - the bible OT and new makes it clear that sexual activity among people of the same gender is offensive to God.

The real debate and where everyone is failing is how to help Gay people move forward and closer to Christ. The vast majority want to write the sinner off with the sin. And that is not right either. Some want to throw an olive branch, but expect gay people to go cold turkey and just stop being gay instantaneously. Again, while magnificent if achievable, reality dictates humans are sinful by nature and it may not be a smooth pathway.

I've suggested another way a few times now, but it gets ignored or shot down. And that is 'The long road home'. This is the one way that will help gay people make permanent, lasting change little by little. And it works like this;

1) Jesus loves YOU! (The Christian community have spent so many hours telling gay people God hates them that it is just accepted as fact by us)
2) You were designed with purpose
3) Letting Jesus in
4) Taking stock of where we are now and where we need to be heading
5) Repentance
6) Forgiveness
7) A life of atonement in the knowledge that we are who we are and our flesh nature is contrary to God's will
8) Working toward becoming a Eunuch for the glory of God (chastity) (Matthew 19:12)

None of this will be a walk in the park, but Jesus himself said that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than achieve the Kingdom of heaven. ie The promise is great, but the journey is not necessarily going to be easy.

Im not failing, I agree and support what u r saying. I do have a slight differrence though regarding forgiveness maybe.

But you are spot on regarding all of this. Great post,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and despite our pitifullness, God still loves us and offers us the gift of grace. For that, Im eternally grateful.
I like it when people help me cuz they are grateful for what I have done for them, rather than because I pay them, or in fear of punishement from me if they dont help me

Gods requirement is perfection

since we have all sinned and continue to fall short of that standard, the love of God is proven in us

as is said, while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, if he died for us as sinners, and saves us as sinners, i do not comprehend how we could somehow sin worse than before salvation to the point we lose salvation

again our pride runs deep, it keeps us from God and his truth

 

[JerryInBoston]

One meme is all that it takes to show the stunning hypocrisy of your rebuttal.

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Jesus sees the hidden sin just as clearly as the ones out in the open. And you are guilty of disparity. Adultery is adultery is sin. In God's eyes the sin is the same.

Disparity? That's an indication that you're legalistic. How does God rate the sin of

Not all sin is the same. Jesus made that clear when he told Pilate the ones that

Are their openly professing gay people in here? If there are, biblical counseling says we are take them to the side and discuss the issue with them, even after this, when we see no repentance, we take another brother or sister, only after pleading and help and continual refusal to listen do we bring them in front of the church and ask them to confess, if they refuse, we ask Them to leave and not come back until they repent,

is this what’s going on here?

yeah I do criticize, I criticize people who call out certain sins judge them while ignoring their own sin, your not going to win a lost soul by judging a sin issue, they must come to Jesus first and be born again, then and only then can they find healing,

Listen, when so and so posts a message proclaiming his active homosexual lifestyle for the world to see, he or she is first not living a Christian lifestyle and secondly is not interested in anything else but generating messages of affirmation of his homosexuality. When he or she then receives messages critical of his pride of homosexuality, expect backlash. You can coddle him or her all you want. Jesus knows his or her heart, and how much of an abomination his or her homosexual lifestyle is to God.