TONGUES false teaching.

[Nebuchadnezzer]

During a time of worship, a song ends and people just continue to worship the Lord in their own way, a quietness settles over the meeting and it is as if you can tell someone is about to speak. A person will give an utterance in tongues. It will not be a known language (I guess it could be but probably isn't) and it will last about 10 to 15 seconds usually. Then everyone waits for the interpretation.

I have many times asked the Lord if he wanted me to interpret and I have received an interpretation. The way that worked was A faith and a confidence rose up in my heart and I knew that I could step out in faith and give the interpretation it just came to me, like an exhortation to honor the elderly in the church and to pray for them. And as I was about to do so, someone else gave the interpretation and it was almost EXACTLY what I was going to give. Not word for word but thought for thought and some of it would be word for word. The interpretations are always of a directive that inspires faith about something specific to that church body, In this case the leadership might have been discussing and planning to launch a nursing home ministry but it had not been completely planned out yet or announced and only a few of them knew about it. The manifestation of the tongues and interpretation might be just what they needed to know that the Holy Spirit was encouraging them to continue down the path of praying and planning on that specific outreach.

Nice story, but how can I test this?

 

[Dino246]

The correct word in 1 Corth. 13:10 for "PERFECT" is COMPLETE.

The written Word of God is the COMPLETED BIBLE!

Fallacy: non sequitur.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I will give real life examples that might help answer that.

I have been in many meetings, in a church in prison in the '80s when I was first saved made up of just inmates with deacons and elders as leadership and where there was an agreement that all these gifts were still in operation. And I have been in many other meetings of assembled believers who believe in these gifts through out the past 40 years since that time. Here is a common example of how it usually is manifested.


During a time of worship, a song ends and people just continue to worship the Lord in their own way, a quietness settles over the meeting and it is as if you can tell someone is about to speak. A person will give an utterance in tongues. It will not be a known language (I guess it could be but probably isn't) and it will last about 10 to 15 seconds usually. Then everyone waits for the interpretation.

I have many times asked the Lord if he wanted me to interpret and I have received an interpretation. The way that worked was A faith and a confidence rose up in my heart and I knew that I could step out in faith and give the interpretation it just came to me, like an exhortation to honor the elderly in the church and to pray for them. And as I was about to do so, someone else gave the interpretation and it was almost EXACTLY what I was going to give. Not word for word but thought for thought and some of it would be word for word. The interpretations are always of a directive that inspires faith about something specific to that church body, In this case the leadership might have been discussing and planning to launch a nursing home ministry but it had not been completely planned out yet or announced and only a few of them knew about it. The manifestation of the tongues and interpretation might be just what they needed to know that the Holy Spirit was encouraging them to continue down the path of praying and planning on that specific outreach.

But what would always be so amazing to me is that it gave me faith that I did have the interpretation when someone else spoke the exact thing I was going to say. That is a faith building exercise and it is how one learns to operate in these gifts. The next time I might give the interpretation and someone would come to me afterwards and say that they had that same interpretation and was waiting to see if anyone else was going to speak. These kinds of experiences let us know that we are not FAKING this stuff. It is way too specific and happens consistently.

OK, so you say you are not faking it. So what you are experiencing is supernatural. The question is are you experiencing a true sign or a false sign? This has to be asked.

Who else does the 'speaking in tongues'? Catholics! Hmmm????

-------------------------------------
These Pentecostal teachings went on to influence the Catholic charismatic movement that initially took hold in the U.S. in the 1960s.

During a 1967 prayer meeting at Dusquesne University in Pittsburgh, a group of students and professors spoke about special “charisms,” or gifts, received through the Holy Spirit.

According to firsthand accounts, faculty were deeply influenced by two books from the Pentecostal tradition, “The Cross and the Switchblade” and “They Speak with Other Tongues.”

Similar experiences of the Holy Spirit were later reported at prayer meetings at the University of Notre Dame and the University of Michigan.

From these beginnings, the Catholic charismatic movement has spread throughout the world.

For Catholic charismatics, the central experience is “the baptism of the Holy Spirit.” The baptism of the Holy Spirit differs from the traditional Catholic infant baptism with water. Adults baptized in the Holy Spirit have their faith reborn and strengthened by members of the congregation laying their hands on them.

Often a sign of baptism of the Holy Spirit is “glossolalia,” or “speaking in tongues.” Speaking in tongues refers to using an unintelligible language, which is often interpreted by someone else in the congregation. Usually glossolalia is considered a form of prayer. But other times, glossolalia is believed to contain prophecies about present or future events.

https://theconversation.com/what-is-charismatic-catholicism-146741#:~:text=Often a sign of baptism,considered a form of prayer.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I will give real life examples that might help answer that.

I have been in many meetings, in a church in prison in the '80s when I was first saved made up of just inmates with deacons and elders as leadership and where there was an agreement that all these gifts were still in operation. And I have been in many other meetings of assembled believers who believe in these gifts through out the past 40 years since that time. Here is a common example of how it usually is manifested.


During a time of worship, a song ends and people just continue to worship the Lord in their own way, a quietness settles over the meeting and it is as if you can tell someone is about to speak. A person will give an utterance in tongues. It will not be a known language (I guess it could be but probably isn't) and it will last about 10 to 15 seconds usually. Then everyone waits for the interpretation.

I have many times asked the Lord if he wanted me to interpret and I have received an interpretation. The way that worked was A faith and a confidence rose up in my heart and I knew that I could step out in faith and give the interpretation it just came to me, like an exhortation to honor the elderly in the church and to pray for them. And as I was about to do so, someone else gave the interpretation and it was almost EXACTLY what I was going to give. Not word for word but thought for thought and some of it would be word for word. The interpretations are always of a directive that inspires faith about something specific to that church body, In this case the leadership might have been discussing and planning to launch a nursing home ministry but it had not been completely planned out yet or announced and only a few of them knew about it. The manifestation of the tongues and interpretation might be just what they needed to know that the Holy Spirit was encouraging them to continue down the path of praying and planning on that specific outreach.

But what would always be so amazing to me is that it gave me faith that I did have the interpretation when someone else spoke the exact thing I was going to say. That is a faith building exercise and it is how one learns to operate in these gifts. The next time I might give the interpretation and someone would come to me afterwards and say that they had that same interpretation and was waiting to see if anyone else was going to speak. These kinds of experiences let us know that we are not FAKING this stuff. It is way too specific and happens consistently.

And the utterances such as not neglecting the elderly (and of course it would be more verbose) these are always truths from the bible that we can agree with, never contradictions and we reject them if they were, but this rarely happens in a church that has learned through time how to do things decent and in order. Wacky things only happen in churches that are not teaching correctly and not mature, like the Corinthians. I believe Paul's instructions were probably applied and they learned to operate in the gifts in order and to the edification of all. And I believe when these chapters are taught (1 Cor 12-14) they produce the kind of wonderful manifestations of the gifts as I have experienced through these many years.

Now I am not trying to use my experiences to establish doctrine. This post is in answer to the question about testing the speaking of tongues in the assembly and the interpretation. I have used real life scenarios to answer what that looks like.

And in conclusion I will address what happens when the utterance is tested and found false.

I don't have many of these because I have been fortunate to attend very healthy and mature assemblies through the years that know how to teach and operate in the gifts. One example that comes to mind was when a brother who meant well was giving an interpretation of an utterance of tongues about Michael the Archangel. I don't remember the exact interpretation but it was glorifying the attributes of Michael the Archangel and the leader stopped the brother and said very kindly, "I am going to have to stop you brother, I think you mean well but that is not the interpretation. I don't want to embarrass you and I want you to keep desiring the gift of interpretation but this is not the interpretation." And then he gave the correct interpretation, which happened to be once again the same thing I had gotten when I heard the tongue. Later we discussed it and we all agreed that he handled it very well and that brother who spoke from his own mind kept on learning and growing from this mistake and was not crushed over it.

Now it was obvious to me and the leader because the interpretation was bringing glory to an Archangel rather than Christ and the spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus Christ. Anytime an interpretation or a prophesy is bringing glory to a man or an angel your spirit will go RED ALERT for good cause.

Now to the skeptic or the uninitiated the potential for a false interpretation would make them feel that banning all utterances is safer for the church but Paul said not to forbid to speak in tongues just because they were doing it wrong in Corinth. He also said not to QUENCH the Spirit and not to despise prophesying. Allowing the Holy Spirit to manifest the gifts in the assembly includes having the Holy Spirit gifts of leadership to gently correct and guide the believers into the mature use of these gifts. This was Paul's approach and it should be ours.

OK, so you say you are not faking it. So what you are experiencing is supernatural. The question is are you experiencing a true sign or a false sign? This has to be asked.

So let me test this. Here is one way.
Who else does the 'speaking in tongues'? Catholics! This is now suspect.

-------------------------------------
These Pentecostal teachings went on to influence the Catholic charismatic movement that initially took hold in the U.S. in the 1960s.

During a 1967 prayer meeting at Dusquesne University in Pittsburgh, a group of students and professors spoke about special “charisms,” or gifts, received through the Holy Spirit.

According to firsthand accounts, faculty were deeply influenced by two books from the Pentecostal tradition, “The Cross and the Switchblade” and “They Speak with Other Tongues.”

Similar experiences of the Holy Spirit were later reported at prayer meetings at the University of Notre Dame and the University of Michigan.

From these beginnings, the Catholic charismatic movement has spread throughout the world.

For Catholic charismatics, the central experience is “the baptism of the Holy Spirit.” The baptism of the Holy Spirit differs from the traditional Catholic infant baptism with water. Adults baptized in the Holy Spirit have their faith reborn and strengthened by members of the congregation laying their hands on them.

Often a sign of baptism of the Holy Spirit is “glossolalia,” or “speaking in tongues.” Speaking in tongues refers to using an unintelligible language, which is often interpreted by someone else in the congregation. Usually glossolalia is considered a form of prayer. But other times, glossolalia is believed to contain prophecies about present or future events.

https://theconversation.com/what-is-charismatic-catholicism-146741#:~:text=Often a sign of baptism,considered a form of prayer.

 

[Scribe]

OK, so you say you are not faking it. So what you are experiencing is supernatural. The question is are you experiencing a true sign or a false sign? This has to be asked.

So let me test this. Here is one way.
Who else does the 'speaking in tongues'? Catholics! This is now suspect.

-------------------------------------
These Pentecostal teachings went on to influence the Catholic charismatic movement that initially took hold in the U.S. in the 1960s.

During a 1967 prayer meeting at Dusquesne University in Pittsburgh, a group of students and professors spoke about special “charisms,” or gifts, received through the Holy Spirit.

According to firsthand accounts, faculty were deeply influenced by two books from the Pentecostal tradition, “The Cross and the Switchblade” and “They Speak with Other Tongues.”

Similar experiences of the Holy Spirit were later reported at prayer meetings at the University of Notre Dame and the University of Michigan.

From these beginnings, the Catholic charismatic movement has spread throughout the world.

For Catholic charismatics, the central experience is “the baptism of the Holy Spirit.” The baptism of the Holy Spirit differs from the traditional Catholic infant baptism with water. Adults baptized in the Holy Spirit have their faith reborn and strengthened by members of the congregation laying their hands on them.

Often a sign of baptism of the Holy Spirit is “glossolalia,” or “speaking in tongues.” Speaking in tongues refers to using an unintelligible language, which is often interpreted by someone else in the congregation. Usually glossolalia is considered a form of prayer. But other times, glossolalia is believed to contain prophecies about present or future events.

https://theconversation.com/what-is-charismatic-catholicism-146741#:~:text=Often a sign of baptism,considered a form of prayer.

That there are people in the Catholic church that may be born again and not yet been enlightened to the degree that you have concerning the errors of the Catholic church must be left in the hands of God. I will not declare every single Catholic as not saved or not capable of being baptized in the Holy Spirit where God finds them in their current status in life. And neither can you. The Lord is able to bring them out in due time as they grow. This is the same for all other denominations and many have also had Theologians and pastors experience this Baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues and have chosen to stay in thier denominations that do not believe that this experience is authentic, I leave that between them and God.

Nice story, but how can I test this?

It is not for you to test it since you are not in my congregation when the gifts are manifested. It is for me to test it at that time and that was the purpose of my story to explain how I and others that operate in the gifts test them.

How can someone that does not believe they are real test them? That is not the kind of testing that Paul was talking about. As a skeptic your on the outside looking in and believing that it is fake already. We that believe in them know the difference between faking tongues and real tongues. We test them but you don't have the knowledge to test them.

You do not allow for the existence of a real manifestation of tongues therefore you cannot test between the real and the false because you will not allow yourself to become familiar with the real.

If you want someone to prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that the gift of tongues are real you are not going to find the proof you are requiring. It is like asking someone to prove that they are saved. Someone can give a reason why any proof presented is not really proof.

If you believe that all tongues must be a known language somewhere on earth then you will not find the proof you are looking for. I do not believe that was true of tongues in Corinth, that is why a gift of interpretation was needed (not a bilingual translator) and why Paul said when he prayed in tongues he did not understand what he was praying. It was because the gift of tongues then is the same as today.

I gave you examples of how we test the manifestation. Is it in accordance with scripture, does it edify, comfort, exhort, does it point to Jesus, are there others who are filled with the Holy Spirit who bear witness such as two people getting the same interpretation.

You can't do any of that because you don't even allow it to be real.

I have heard a Dallas Theological Seminary Professor say that if speaking in tongues is real he could record someone and then find someone who has the gift of interpretation and have them interpret it. But he has yet to get anyone to take him up on this offer. He is confused. Someone with the gift of interpretation would operate in that gift at the time that the tongue was uttered in the meeting and not later when you play a recording for them.

The Holy Spirit will not give the interpretation to satisfy a skeptic with a recorder. If he ever found someone to interpret the recording he can be sure it is a fake interpretation. Why? Because the Holy Spirit will not play those games and that person is just making stuff up not really hearing from the Holy Spirit.

A person that knows how to operate in the gift of interpretation would tell the professor "you are confused, it does not work that way"

The professor thinks he has proved that all tongues are fake because he can't get anyone to play his skeptic game. It is sad but he aught to know better. Even as a skeptic he should know that IF tongues and interpretation were real he should not EXPECT the Holy Spirit to yield to his TESTS.

So your desire to TEST and the one who does not believe in tongues desire to Test them, is not the same thing Paul was talking about when he was telling tongue talkers and prophesyers to TEST.

 

[CS1]

How you can come to that conclusion from reading that verse fills one with trepidation. Unfruitful understanding is not a good thing. Since it is your spirit that prays and not Gods Holy Spirit it seems reasonable to assume that your spirit produces nothing of eternal value. It cannot because it is flawed and not holy nor sanctified.

Again you conclude that things get done but that requires a great deal of speculation and makes assumptions without biblical merit. There remains no biblical foundation for the concept of praying in tongues as you want us to believe. Why would my heavenly Father Who loved me so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross to atone for my sins be pleased if I come before Him in prayer and do not speak to Him with understanding? We are to come boldly before the throne of grace not cloaked in superstition and fleshly fear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

of course you would say that and blasphemy the Holy Spirit with your Trolling comment. The term said by Scribe is found in the Word of God Paul said the very thing in 1cor 14:13-15

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

You took the words of scribe that he was quoting paul in 1cor 14:13-15 and tried to insult him and the Holy Spirt in him.

"It cannot because it is flawed and not holy nor sanctified." Words said by you Notuptome about another member.


You don't even use the word of God, just a bunch of comments attacking others. You are a troll . it is time for you to go. and for you to blasphemy the Holy Sprit in your comment Thankfully you are very ignorant and can't understand cognitively your error.

 

[CS1]

Luckily I wasn't in a Church that did this babbling but the first time I ever heard it, it was obvious that it was phoney.

yea coming from such theologian as yourself I'm shocked we did not get the memo. The first time you heard it huh it was phon(e) y ?

wow

 

[SophieT]

The correct word in 1 Corth. 13:10 for "PERFECT" is COMPLETE.

The written Word of God is the COMPLETED BIBLE!

Well what we have is complete. However we are told that if everything Jesus did were written down, it could not be contained.

Perfect does not mean complete. For example, you are completely wrong, therefore you are not complete.

Or, the house was a complete mess. That is not perfect.

Perhaps a dictionary for your birthday?

 

[CS1]

He's correct. People that believe in this nonsense get very upset and angry when others question the practice. Some even go so far as to insinuate one isn't a Christian if they say the modern tongues is just nonsensical babbling that does not come from God. AT least we aren't saying the tongue talkers aren't Christians. We think they are mistaken and in some more rare cases intentionally faking to draw attention to themselves and impress others. I think that's a minority in the churches but it is happening. Even in this thread it has been admitted that much fakery is happening. I think accidental faking is also happening out of ignorance. While well meaning, it is a bad thing to be a part of.

No most of us have heard these scoffing and mocking of the Holy Spirit Gifts and will stand against it with the Word of God . Everything you said above I don't see one scripture not one. Yet we have asked and said Please provide proof in the word of God where the gifts have ended? 1Cor chapter 12 through 14 are unit Chapters on the Charismata and the pnumatkeia found and listed in chapter 12 of 1cor.

We no you think it is fake now please show us where it is not for today and if it is for today and you just have issue with the error you see on TV and such Why has God not helped you receive ? You clearly re better candidate than us right?

 

[SophieT]

I personally have a strong feeling that you are being convicted by the conversation and you are now beginning to realize that what you are doing is not actually Biblical at all.

It is also very telling on your part that you do not confront and speak to the many Scriptures that have been posted which speak against speaking in tongues.

Did the strong feeling begin after too much pizza? I think you need to wear an aluminum cap because something, not anything you should listen to, is whispering in your ear.

You say you don't believe in the gifts, but you want to try and exercise discernment (way off by the way)

you can't make up this kind of complete nonsense

 

[CS1]

OK, so you say you are not faking it. So what you are experiencing is supernatural. The question is are you experiencing a true sign or a false sign? This has to be asked.

Who else does the 'speaking in tongues'? Catholics! Hmmm????

-------------------------------------
These Pentecostal teachings went on to influence the Catholic charismatic movement that initially took hold in the U.S. in the 1960s.

During a 1967 prayer meeting at Dusquesne University in Pittsburgh, a group of students and professors spoke about special “charisms,” or gifts, received through the Holy Spirit.

According to firsthand accounts, faculty were deeply influenced by two books from the Pentecostal tradition, “The Cross and the Switchblade” and “They Speak with Other Tongues.”

Similar experiences of the Holy Spirit were later reported at prayer meetings at the University of Notre Dame and the University of Michigan.

From these beginnings, the Catholic charismatic movement has spread throughout the world.

For Catholic charismatics, the central experience is “the baptism of the Holy Spirit.” The baptism of the Holy Spirit differs from the traditional Catholic infant baptism with water. Adults baptized in the Holy Spirit have their faith reborn and strengthened by members of the congregation laying their hands on them.

Often a sign of baptism of the Holy Spirit is “glossolalia,” or “speaking in tongues.” Speaking in tongues refers to using an unintelligible language, which is often interpreted by someone else in the congregation. Usually glossolalia is considered a form of prayer. But other times, glossolalia is believed to contain prophecies about present or future events.

https://theconversation.com/what-is-charismatic-catholicism-146741#:~:text=Often a sign of baptism,considered a form of prayer.

that is not correct in your understanding Just so you know RCC were not the only Charismatics. Lutheran, Episcopal Churches.

pentecostal did not influence RCC LOL.

 

[SophieT]

Actually the context of your question came from YOU. I appreciate your atttempt at humor though.


Because I added them my friend hence the parenthesis. TONGUES is the "Context" of the whole chapter.

Not even gonna try. I hope you know what you were going on about cause no one else does.

 

[SophieT]

What is obvious is that when confronted with error...those guility ALWAYS resort to personal comments instead of addressing the Scriptures.

Why do you think that is?????

Let us know when you figure out why you do that. I'm not a counsellor.

 

[SophieT]

Yes, personal insults are quite common.

 

[SophieT]

! Corinthians 14:34 does not agree with you........
"the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. "

Since that whole chapter's CONTEXT is the misuse of tongues in the Church in Corinth, and then Paul says...."You woem are to keep silent in church for you are not permitted to speak".

If he is NOT speaking about the CONTEXT then WHAT DO YOU SAY HE IS TALKING ABUT.

Now instead of telling me what I did.....why don't YOU do the exegesis on that verse.

How do you keep women in submission? Got one of those big fancy whips from Australia?

I know for a fact this little scenario of yours has been dealt with mulitple times and even got back to you on it myself. Obviously you just want to wave placards and scream louder than others.

I think you could learn alot from women.

 

[CS1]

How do you keep women in submission? Got one of those big fancy whips from Australia?

I know for a fact this little scenario of yours has been dealt with mulitple times and even got back to you on it myself. Obviously you just want to wave placards and scream louder than others.

I think you could learn alot from women.

most of these types have been divorced because they could not make wife submissive or silent LOL. they hold to women having to be Silent in church yet they will ok divorce and remarrying every time. Hypocrites.

 

[SophieT]

I doo not live here either but it seems every time I look at the forum YOU have posted something to me.

Now then......what translation are you reading where it says that "WOMEN in the upper room were speaking in tongues"??????

When you actually read the Scriptures please Notice it doesn't say anything about the "women" from which many Christians believe women also were speaking in tongues.

This is another perfect example of YOU wanting to believe something and then YOU READ INTO the Scriptures what YOU want them to say.

Now THAT my dear friend is what is called "Poor Exegesis"!

You deny there were women in the upper room? Do you actually ever read a Bible or do you just wave it a people?

You know, you do not have a clue what I am or what I am not, but I am getting a pretty good picture of who and what you are.

There is no example of me doing anything. I see I have graduated from friend to 'my dear friend' which means you are getting angry.

 

[CS1]

You deny there were women in the upper room? Do you actually ever read a Bible or do you just wave it a people?

You know, you do not have a clue what I am or what I am not, but I am getting a pretty good picture of who and what you are.

There is no example of me doing anything. I see I have graduated from friend to 'my dear friend' which means you are getting angry.

they were hiding in the corner They hated the fact Mary the Mother of Jesu was there. ----------- that one out

 

[SophieT]

most of these types have been divorced because they could not make wife submissive or silent LOL. they hold to women having to be Silent in church yet they will ok divorce and remarrying every time. Hypocrites.

Definitely a 'type'.

 

[CS1]

Nice point made!

God scrambled the languages in Genesis after the tower of babel to disperse the people... and speaking in tongues in Book of Acts were miracles and were examples provided to demonstrate that God is bringing his people back together and to Him.

But tongues spoken today is babel (not understandable) and points to how the peoples are still dispersed in the world - and apart from God - ever since the tower of babel.

only if you had any Biblical proof of that and scriptural support sound like you are more into Babble then any pentecostals LOL