TONGUES false teaching.

[ewq1938]

No one is upset. Stop with the ad hominem nonsense.

He's correct. People that believe in this nonsense get very upset and angry when others question the practice. Some even go so far as to insinuate one isn't a Christian if they say the modern tongues is just nonsensical babbling that does not come from God. AT least we aren't saying the tongue talkers aren't Christians. We think they are mistaken and in some more rare cases intentionally faking to draw attention to themselves and impress others. I think that's a minority in the churches but it is happening. Even in this thread it has been admitted that much fakery is happening. I think accidental faking is also happening out of ignorance. While well meaning, it is a bad thing to be a part of.

 

[Dino246]

How you can come to that conclusion from reading that verse fills one with trepidation. Unfruitful understanding is not a good thing. Since it is your spirit that prays and not Gods Holy Spirit it seems reasonable to assume that your spirit produces nothing of eternal value.

Try reading the verse more closely. It is Paul's mind that is "unfruitful" in that case, not his spirit. In other words, his spirit is actively praying but his mind is not actively praying. You're twisting it to claim that the Holy Spirit is not involved at all.

 

[Scribe]

He's correct. People that believe in this nonsense get very upset and angry when others question the practice. Some even go so far as to insinuate one isn't a Christian if they say the modern tongues is just nonsensical babbling that does not come from God. AT least we aren't saying the tongue talkers aren't Christians. We think they are mistaken and in some more rare cases intentionally faking to draw attention to themselves and impress others. I think that's a minority in the churches but it is happening. Even in this thread it has been admitted that much fakery is happening. I think accidental faking is also happening out of ignorance. While well meaning, it is a bad thing to be a part of.

I don't doubt someone is a Christian if they don't believe that the gift of tongues are for the church today. I think they are needing to study the bible more.

I don't even question whether someone is a Christian if they have fallen into a porn addiction. I just think they need to repent and turn from it before they wake up in hell with eternal regret.

There is however such a thing as inventing an interpretation that is not to be found in 100 commentaries that should be obvious that it is not the correct interpretation and yet held on to in a belligerence that can only be due to intellectual dishonesty.

 

[Scribe]

How you can come to that conclusion from reading that verse fills one with trepidation. Unfruitful understanding is not a good thing. Since it is your spirit that prays and not Gods Holy Spirit it seems reasonable to assume that your spirit produces nothing of eternal value. It cannot because it is flawed and not holy nor sanctified.

Again you conclude that things get done but that requires a great deal of speculation and makes assumptions without biblical merit. There remains no biblical foundation for the concept of praying in tongues as you want us to believe. Why would my heavenly Father Who loved me so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross to atone for my sins be pleased if I come before Him in prayer and do not speak to Him with understanding? We are to come boldly before the throne of grace not cloaked in superstition and fleshly fear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I think you are willfully refusing to accept the authorial intent of 1 Cor 14:14. It is not hard. You are trying to make it hard to understand but it is not hard to understand.
Your responses are too weird so I am thinking you are not ever going to be intellectually honest and I am bowing out of the conversation. You oppose yourself. And I think you know that you are doing it.

 

[Major]

You are right in one thing here. Some people cannot accept what is in the Bible. The Bible itself is full of believers and those who mocked those believers. I doubt you actually think you are a nobody.

The Bible is not what is meant by 'Perfect'. There are errors in every single translation. Has knowledge passed away? That is a not a very knowledgeable thing to say. I don't think you understand what a prophecy is.

If a person chooses to portray scripture in such a way that they disguise the truth, they have made up their own Bible. What you are teaching is not the gospel. You like to quote Paul but you deny what he says about tongues.

smh

The correct word in 1 Corth. 13:10 for "PERFECT" is COMPLETE.

The written Word of God is the COMPLETED BIBLE!

 

[Major]

You seem to be lacking in basic vocabulary skills.

por·tray | \ pȯr-ˈtrā , pər- \
portrayed; portraying; portrays
Definition of portray

transitive verb
1: to make a picture of : DEPICT
2a: to describe in words
b: to play the role of : ENACT

YOU depicted something, does not mean you made it up. You are portraying all people who speak in tongues to the people in the video. Get a dictionary.



You really are having a difficult time here. You have no clue how many Pentecostal churches I have been in or if even one.

Have you ever been in one at all???

 

[Major]

You seem to be lacking in basic vocabulary skills.

por·tray | \ pȯr-ˈtrā , pər- \
portrayed; portraying; portrays
Definition of portray

transitive verb
1: to make a picture of : DEPICT
2a: to describe in words
b: to play the role of : ENACT

YOU depicted something, does not mean you made it up. You are portraying all people who speak in tongues to the people in the video. Get a dictionary.



You really are having a difficult time here. You have no clue how many Pentecostal churches I have been in or if even one.

Not so. The people in those videos are actually the ones who are proving my point!

Was there any interpreation taking place as told to in the Bible.

Were there women speaking in tongues as prohibited by the Bible???

 

[SophieT]

He's correct. People that believe in this nonsense get very upset and angry when others question the practice. Some even go so far as to insinuate one isn't a Christian if they say the modern tongues is just nonsensical babbling that does not come from God. AT least we aren't saying the tongue talkers aren't Christians. We think they are mistaken and in some more rare cases intentionally faking to draw attention to themselves and impress others. I think that's a minority in the churches but it is happening. Even in this thread it has been admitted that much fakery is happening. I think accidental faking is also happening out of ignorance. While well meaning, it is a bad thing to be a part of.

LOL!~ Oh you know he's upset because you and I have known each for a long time? LOL!

It seems you cannot directly address people who have a different view than you anymore than he can. You are offering 'some' or what you say they might insinuate and then mention babbling and defend that mess with saying you are not as bad in your accusations as those who speak in tongues. Only you do not have even a passing acquaintance with me, so kindly do not think you can represent me.

Of course fakery is happening. Do you also understand how many Sunday Christians are going to church now and then?

It is a bad thing to be a part of just ignoring what is taught in scripture.

Really, you have an argument from fallacy and a few other notable excuses going on.

 

[SophieT]

Have you ever been in one at all???

I take it you mean a Pentecostal church. However I am guessing since you could mean a barn, Walmart's, court, any number of things since you have left out what it is you are talking about.

So if you mean a Pentecostal church, yes I have been in one. or 2 or 3 or 4 or more.

 

[Major]

I have a strong feeling that the irritation and hatred I sense from those who are embarrassed and ashamed of the gift of tongues is due to the fact that the kingdom of darkness and the plans of the enemy are severely damaged when Holy Ghost filled believers intercede in tongues.
I interpret these willful intellectually dishonest twisting of scriptures to explain away the supernatural gift of tongues or to explain why we don't need it as a demonic attack.
I will therefore increase my praying in tongues as I am fully persuaded that great things are happening as a result and the devil is very upset about that.
So something very positive has come out of these threads and for that I am thankful.

I personally have a strong feeling that you are being convicted by the conversation and you are now beginning to realize that what you are doing is not actually Biblical at all.

It is also very telling on your part that you do not confront and speak to the many Scriptures that have been posted which speak against speaking in tongues.

 

[Major]

I take it you mean a Pentecostal church. However I am guessing since you could mean a barn, Walmart's, court, any number of things since you have left out what it is you are talking about.

So if you mean a Pentecostal church, yes I have been in one. or 2 or 3 or 4 or more.

Actually the context of your question came from YOU. I appreciate your atttempt at humor though.

That's right. In that chapter he also has instruction for the proper usage of tongues in the church.


Why did you insert the words "in tongues" into the verse?

Have you looked into the authenticity of 1 Cor 14:34-35? It is contested by many. I'll let you look into it.. Here's a start:

http://helpmewithbiblestudy.org/11Church/PublicExaminingAuthenticity1CorLowerCriticism.aspx

Because I added them my friend hence the parenthesis. TONGUES is the "Context" of the whole chapter.

 

[SophieT]

Not so. The people in those videos are actually the ones who are proving my point!

Was there any interpreation taking place as told to in the Bible.

Were there women speaking in tongues as prohibited by the Bible???

I don't live on here so I will not be jumping on every post you might insert to respond to me.

There were women speaking in tongues right when the Holy Spirit first descended. There were women in the upper room and the passage clearly states that ALL in the room began to speak in tongues. There goes your theory of all tongues needing to be interpreted right there.

The Bible does not forbid women to speak in church.

Yours is some of the worst exegesis I have come across in recent months.

The rest of your posts will have to wait.

 

[Major]

You lost this debate a long time ago. Your just whimpering pathetically at this point. Go ahead and concede. Time for a new thread.

What is obvious is that when confronted with error...those guility ALWAYS resort to personal comments instead of addressing the Scriptures.

Why do you think that is?????

 

[ewq1938]

What is obvious is that when confronted with error...those guility ALWAYS resort to personal comments instead of addressing the Scriptures.

Yes, personal insults are quite common.

 

[Major]

I don't live on here so I will not be jumping on every post you might insert to respond to me.

There were women speaking in tongues right when the Holy Spirit first descended. There were women in the upper room and the passage clearly states that ALL in the room began to speak in tongues. There goes your theory of all tongues needing to be interpreted right there.

The Bible does not forbid women to speak in church.

Yours is some of the worst exegesis I have come across in recent months.

The rest of your posts will have to wait.

! Corinthians 14:34 does not agree with you........
"the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. "

Since that whole chapter's CONTEXT is the misuse of tongues in the Church in Corinth, and then Paul says...."You woem are to keep silent in church for you are not permitted to speak".

If he is NOT speaking about the CONTEXT then WHAT DO YOU SAY HE IS TALKING ABUT.

Now instead of telling me what I did.....why don't YOU do the exegesis on that verse.

 

[SophieT]

oooo 7 posts. I hope you don't get whiplash.

I am sure all of your objections have been addressed, but like I said maybe later.

 

[Major]

I don't live on here so I will not be jumping on every post you might insert to respond to me.

There were women speaking in tongues right when the Holy Spirit first descended. There were women in the upper room and the passage clearly states that ALL in the room began to speak in tongues. There goes your theory of all tongues needing to be interpreted right there.

The Bible does not forbid women to speak in church.

Yours is some of the worst exegesis I have come across in recent months.

The rest of your posts will have to wait.

I doo not live here either but it seems every time I look at the forum YOU have posted something to me.

Now then......what translation are you reading where it says that "WOMEN in the upper room were speaking in tongues"??????

When you actually read the Scriptures please Notice it doesn't say anything about the "women" from which many Christians believe women also were speaking in tongues.

This is another perfect example of YOU wanting to believe something and then YOU READ INTO the Scriptures what YOU want them to say.

Now THAT my dear friend is what is called "Poor Exegesis"!

 

[Major]

oooo 7 posts. I hope you don't get whiplash.

I am sure all of your objections have been addressed, but like I said maybe later.

So in plain English.......You do not know!

 

[Scribe]

I personally have a strong feeling that you are being convicted by the conversation and you are now beginning to realize that what you are doing is not actually Biblical at all.

It is also very telling on your part that you do not confront and speak to the many Scriptures that have been posted which speak against speaking in tongues.

All your scriptures were interpreted but you held fast to your bad hermeneutics. You lost the debate but don't know how to concede.

It's over. The completed canon view is no longer presented by theologians who believe that tongues have faded. They use other arguments because they long ago conceded "that which is perfect is come" is not referring to canon of scripture.

You have not conceded this yet and don't realize that this view was tossed by Theologians that once held it. It is no longer taught in seminaries. It cannot be supported in an academic debate. You're just going to have to keep reading until you learn about this on your own.

I presented an entire Doctoral thesis on it. http://frankviola.org/theperfect.pdf

You are the one that has not confronted the overwhelming proof that the history of the interpretation of 1 Cor 13 has concluded that it is not talking about the canon of scripture but rather the state of perfection post resurrection in eternity or when we have obtained that state which Paul said he said he followed after not to be obtained in this life. the eschaton. You are just being beligerant by saying I have not confronted it.
What you need to say is that you have read and rejected every interpretation and the reasons for the interpretation and have decided that your canon completion view is a better interpretation. That I can respect. But I don't think you have read this paper and reviewed the reasons why the canon of scripture cannot be the correct interpretation because you don't want to be proven wrong.
http://frankviola.org/theperfect.pdf
So there is nothing else to say. Good luck with that.

 

[Scribe]

I personally have a strong feeling that you are being convicted by the conversation and you are now beginning to realize that what you are doing is not actually Biblical at all.

It is also very telling on your part that you do not confront and speak to the many Scriptures that have been posted which speak against speaking in tongues.

I am being convicted by the Holy Spirit to not argue with people on the internet, especially about the gift of tongues. It is a waste of time and quickly causes division.