Today’s church’s misunderstandings

[Blik]

i believe that Jesus rose on sun, not the jewish Sabbath, and early Christians began to meet early on sun. morning , as the N.T. says.

you are wrong in the fact that rome instituted sun. worship in the 300's.

as i have said above, roman governor pliny the younger attested to this in 112 a.d.

you and i had a polite " agree to disagree" in place, let's please honor that.

It was discovered that Christ rose on Sunday, but a discovery of something does not establish an event.

Scripture does not tell us that a day that Christ rose established a Sabbath day, that was something men added to scripture. We are not to add to scripture.

And I said Rome made Sunday LAW. there is evidence that other gentiles had used the day they were used to using to worship their gods as the day to worship the one true God.

It is important that we listen to the lord and have faith in what the Lord tells us, that is the only importance that believing in the day of the week that something happened has, but if you truly believe in your way and still believe Christ died for you, you can assign the days of the week any way you believe in.

 

[lenna]

there is evidence that other gentiles had used the day they were used to using to worship their gods as the day to worship the one true God.

as God made every day, they are all his. or should we keep those used by others for pagan idols and such out of our vocabulary

as had been noted many times in this forum, there go all the days of the week then if names mean anything

do we suppose God does not accept worship on certain days?

if someone never heard of the Sabbath but they choose to keep Wednesday for God only, are they ignored by God?

what does the word holy mean anyway? holy means to be 'set aside' in it's simplest form

 

[Blik]

Sabbath pushers have not received the New Covenant. Gentiles never were under obligation to keep the law.

Christians and most of them were Jews at the time met on the first day of the week not on the Sabbath. In fact they were not welcome to worship on the Sabbath.

We worship every day of the week not one day alone. We gather for corporate worship one day of the week perhaps two depending on the assembly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Being a Christian means that we go to Christ for forgiveness, and then we accept Christ through faith. Christ said He and the Father were one. Christ came to fulfill the law by giving us forgiveness. The law tells us of our sins, if we give our sins to Christ then we do not keep them. If we give all of the law to Christ, as giving our sins to Him does, how can you say we are not obligation to keep the law, but we can wallow in it?

The new covenant does not state that you may now keep sin in your life, it says that it was physical ways God spoke to us before, now God will communicate to us about His policies (law) in spirit and truth instead.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Guess you assume we have not read the Old Testament? And your example of Jesus and the rock isn unbiblical and out of context

Did Jesus do what you suggested?

Example, the woman that was brought to Jesus for committing adultery. He didn’t pick up a stone to kill her. According to the law of Moses she should have been killed! So why did Jesus do something that was perceived as opposing the law?

As you go on to explain your point. Yet you failed to explain those very pharisees were not keeping the law they taught to other AS Jesus made very clear inMatthew 23 read it. Secondly Those who are in Christ are free from the law which Jesus said and Paul those who keep the law must KEEP all of it. Are you are to do that in yourself? If you can why does one need Christ>? Oh for givenness so you can keep at law that you broke before to only break another and ask forgiveness? Are you Justified by the law? Was it the Law who saved you? Read Gal 5. and Rom 6-8
And go back and read How Abraham did not have the law and how his obedience was counted to him as righteousness with God. Now we are to be Obedient to Christ. Abraham was justified before he was Circumcised and before the law and Paul addressed to which he was more obedient to the law than you or I.

Yes, you are right. They couldn't keep the Law perfectly and so can't we

 

[wattie]

The church today says that the Sabbath was cancelled. As proof they tell of Mary’s discovery of the risen Christ on Sunday. It doesn’t make sense that the time of a discovery should change what God tells us He created on the seventh day, or that a time of discovering something establishes when it happened, but that is the way they think.

The Lord gave us a new covenant, one we are told makes the old covenant obsolete. The church tells us that God knew he make a mistake so he cancelled the old covenant. I guess they think that God is like them and they know they make mistakes so they say so does the Lord. As if the Lord was just another human.

The church goes on and on about the mistakes the Lord has made. They say the sacrificial system didn’t work at all for atonement of sin even though scripture tells us it did. When the blood of cattle was used to feed the Lord, like pagans fed idols and not as a symbol of Christ, God hated it so the church tells us it was a mistake of the Lord to establish it.

The church tells us OT scripture can be in error. OT scripture tells us that God guides us to praise and celebrate His plan of salvation for us with feasts for all generations. The church tells us that is an error, that the feasts are to be treated the same way cutting the foreskin is treated.

Scripture tells us to celebrate Christ with Passover, the church says God cancelled that. They made up a new way to do it and named it using pagan gods to inspire them to make up a name for this replacement.

Demons are attracted to the church, undermining it is undermining the Lord. They have done a mighty work, they will still fail in the end.

It was people's adherence to Gods way of serving Him that failed, God made no mistake..people go there own way. Israel failed to maintain the OT system of service. God then superceded that system of service in the New Covenant.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Well, Jesus was raised on the first day of the week which the word of God says. Sunday service is done not in context to the Sabbath but in honoring, remembering, and commemorating The Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

While this all makes us feel good, where is the verse God instructed us to commemorate the resurrection every Sunday? If there is no such verse then Hosea 4 applies where God tells us that He hates our self appointed days.

 

[mustaphadrink]

fine. i will tell the mods, i will tell you, i will tell anyone- Jesus did not rise on the Sabbath, he rose on sun.

anyone who says otherwise is a lying judeaizer.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I am not a Jew.

 

[mustaphadrink]

You do NOT have the "original greek"; You have never handled, touched, or seen the "original greek", and neither have your 'scholars'. It does NOT Exist!!

Show the PROOF! Show the EVIDENCE! Where is it? Is it on that swamp land that you have for sale in Arizona, Egypt?

Yet you can't provide one shred of evidence in a single post.

Should we be surprised? There are a lot of Quacks out there with a 'Ph.D.', such as Dr. Who Thunk It & Dr. Who Flunked It. A Ph.D is not a replacement for The Holy Ghost.

You're all talk and no action. You can't provide a single Bible verse to support your error.

This isn't the first that you have tattletaled to bear false witness against someone that has disagreed with you, and have called you out for your heresy. The truth is that you are a Charasmatic False Prophet, of which is easily proven:

>> HERE <<

I don't respond to people that shout at me all the time.

 

[mustaphadrink]

We are concerned with one author.

The word rest (sabbath) is not a time sensitive word in any way shape or form . Why try to establish one?

Who is we?

 

[mustaphadrink]

Were those 10 books written by SDA's? So you will go with the body of evidence out of the mouth of many witnesses, huh?

https://www.bible.ca/H-sunday.htm

No.

 

[mustaphadrink]

oh, and what are these books you keep referring to?

care to name them??

No. As it is not my policy to do other people's work for them. With the internet, you have thousands of resources available to you so make use of them. My experience is if I give out sources, all people do is put their spin on them.

 

[rready]

If we consider who was speaking and recorded of His Voice is in John 14?

His Voice hearing and seeing him spoke and is speaking Still, Gentle and Kind, in the Light of the Heart nigh within, I AM still. The way, (path to find Life as becoming a new creation having a new mind not of this old world. By His baptism of His Holy Spirit Source of Creation of Water as One together and all begotten of Himself of Luke 24 Expounding Still. As Father and Mother of Eternal Light Being Quickening Spirit Second Adam walking in the candlestick of the Heart of the opened door, "Agape".

Agape-Agape or Verily-Verily, Agape to All.

Cause of the Oil Pouring out of First Love of Ten Virgin Commandment Linen Garment to Wear. The Parable of the Ten Virgins forming Light Being Garment is received upon entering UP into His Inner Court where His Menorah of Light is brightly shining.

Not of sand castle paradigm as Allegory stuck in the old default decaying neural 'net' but of literal for Light Being Within putting on the mind of Christ to arise up in the Strait "Waters" Gate "DOOR" going UP to Abide in He the Vine, specific of Mesi = Everlasting Water of YAH = Of the Heart Construct Arc and Covenant Allegoric is Literal for Light Being in He the Tabernacle Made Without Hands.

So the truth defining as I AM is to Hear His Voice, literal for Light Being within. There are all kinds of truth. Then specific of I AM 'truth' speaking still is within the candlestick of the Heart. Rev 3:20. There is only ONE inward Second Adam Quickening Spirit of His Interpretation of all love letters old and new to Delight in the Testimony 'law' of LIFE of a Dwelling as a New Wineskin of Indestructible, Imperishable, Timelessness Love, Deu 30:19. The blessing is to become regenerated as a new creation by the Power to arise up out of forms of godliness.

All allegoric of flesh and blood is literal for Spirit the Light Being within are we all. Knowing or not. Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Death) ... Gal 4:26 (Of the Same Testimony as LIFE of that Testimony Became Flesh, John 1, and having become a new creation have received His new commandment to regenerate as His Child receiving the White Stone of dwelling place Expanding of the Heart's Door, of His Seed, Wearing His Linen Garment of indestructible Love, Light), But Jerusalem which is above, (Arisen Up into His Inner Court putting Him on as Rom 13:14), is free, which is the mother of us all.

Then up in the Upper Room going inward is found the Voice of the Truth Speaking Still in ONE Accord, not stuck in as "Egypt" or as Mitzrayim consciousness of the confusion of old 'woman', filthy rags parts, then focusing UP as in Peter's getting out of the boat message, finds He the Safety who gives Power to walk on all those serpents and scorpions or as male and female formation of the flesh in the corruption leavening off in three measures. Then the real Sabbath is within to find His Rest for Spirit having a place to go now and ultimate when all the knocking stops at our appointed time to die. Rev 2:9-11.

 

[gb9]

No. As it is not my policy to do other people's work for them. With the internet, you have thousands of resources available to you so make use of them. My experience is if I give out sources, all people do is put their spin on them.

so , in other words, you don't want your sources identified and researched .

o.k.

moving on. nothing to see here, just a lot of empty noise.

 

[Blik]

It was people's adherence to Gods way of serving Him that failed, God made no mistake..people go there own way. Israel failed to maintain the OT system of service. God then superceded that system of service in the New Covenant.

The OT system was for the forgiveness of sin, not a system of service.

In the OT God communicated with humans through giving them physical things to do to help them understand the spiritual. Animal blood was a symbol of Christ's blood, unless it was sacrificed for forgiveness of sin God hated it. Circumcision was a symbol of belonging to God. With the new covenant God communicates with us heart to heart.

We fail in the same way the OT people failed if we do not have faith in Christ enough to repent of our sins and accept His forgiveness.

 

[garee]

Who is we?

Christians

 

[garee]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I am not a Jew.

A judaizer is one that worships shadows as ceremonial laws. They simply do not know the truth. They must assume the word rest (sabbath) is a time sensitive word. From there things go astray.

 

[Dino246]

If we consider who was speaking and recorded of His Voice is in John 14?

His Voice hearing and seeing him spoke and is speaking Still, Gentle and Kind, in the Light of the Heart nigh within, I AM still. The way, (path to find Life as becoming a new creation having a new mind not of this old world. By His baptism of His Holy Spirit Source of Creation of Water as One together and all begotten of Himself of Luke 24 Expounding Still. As Father and Mother of Eternal Light Being Quickening Spirit Second Adam walking in the candlestick of the Heart of the opened door, "Agape".

Agape-Agape or Verily-Verily, Agape to All.

Cause of the Oil Pouring out of First Love of Ten Virgin Commandment Linen Garment to Wear. The Parable of the Ten Virgins forming Light Being Garment is received upon entering UP into His Inner Court where His Menorah of Light is brightly shining.

Not of sand castle paradigm as Allegory stuck in the old default decaying neural 'net' but of literal for Light Being Within putting on the mind of Christ to arise up in the Strait "Waters" Gate "DOOR" going UP to Abide in He the Vine, specific of Mesi = Everlasting Water of YAH = Of the Heart Construct Arc and Covenant Allegoric is Literal for Light Being in He the Tabernacle Made Without Hands.

So the truth defining as I AM is to Hear His Voice, literal for Light Being within. There are all kinds of truth. Then specific of I AM 'truth' speaking still is within the candlestick of the Heart. Rev 3:20. There is only ONE inward Second Adam Quickening Spirit of His Interpretation of all love letters old and new to Delight in the Testimony 'law' of LIFE of a Dwelling as a New Wineskin of Indestructible, Imperishable, Timelessness Love, Deu 30:19. The blessing is to become regenerated as a new creation by the Power to arise up out of forms of godliness.

All allegoric of flesh and blood is literal for Spirit the Light Being within are we all. Knowing or not. Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Death) ... Gal 4:26 (Of the Same Testimony as LIFE of that Testimony Became Flesh, John 1, and having become a new creation have received His new commandment to regenerate as His Child receiving the White Stone of dwelling place Expanding of the Heart's Door, of His Seed, Wearing His Linen Garment of indestructible Love, Light), But Jerusalem which is above, (Arisen Up into His Inner Court putting Him on as Rom 13:14), is free, which is the mother of us all.

Then up in the Upper Room going inward is found the Voice of the Truth Speaking Still in ONE Accord, not stuck in as "Egypt" or as Mitzrayim consciousness of the confusion of old 'woman', filthy rags parts, then focusing UP as in Peter's getting out of the boat message, finds He the Safety who gives Power to walk on all those serpents and scorpions or as male and female formation of the flesh in the corruption leavening off in three measures. Then the real Sabbath is within to find His Rest for Spirit having a place to go now and ultimate when all the knocking stops at our appointed time to die. Rev 2:9-11.

Hello and welcome to CC, rready.
I'm guessing that, although you are in the US, your first language is not English, because your post is difficult to understand. Are you using a digital translator? If so, it isn't working too well. I would encourage you to read some good books (or take a class) to get a sense of how English syntax works.

 

[Dino246]

A judaizer is one that worships shadows as ceremonial laws. They simply do not know the truth. They must assume the word rest (sabbath) is a time sensitive word. From there things go astray.

Judaizers don't "worship" shadows; rather, they take requirements of the OT law and push them on non-Jewish Christians, claiming that in order to become a Christian, one must first become a Jew. Circumcision was the primary point of contention in the first century; Sabbath is one of the primary points of contention now.

 

[rready]

Hello and welcome to CC, rready.
I'm guessing that, although you are in the US, your first language is not English, because your post is difficult to understand. Are you using a digital translator? If so, it isn't working too well. I would encourage you to read some good books (or take a class) to get a sense of how English syntax works.

That's good humor! Meanings of the words interpreted by the Holy Spirit get to the real message. Then saying in perfect syntax might miss the point of thinking slowly, calmly about what is being said, then not stuck in the default mind but rather reflecting of having the Mind of Christ above. No debate or contention. Just a testimony of going further outside of the old box of religion or politik by the way given to do so. Going on sixty years born in TX and speak English just fine that is with a little Texan mixed in. Ha! I figure that any words can be vanity but might provoke anyone to go a little further on their own within the path of the way, to get their own Oil of further hearing the truth that is the Voice Moses said to hear still today the same,. By looking up, within, of the Heart's door, to get to the interpretation and message from the Source for the Light Being new creation mind having been regenerated by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Or if we only think within the default mind where sand castle paradigms are formed we may not have gone far enough UP to get to the absolute truth of hearing and knowing for certain Father's Voice as Philip indicates by asking a question for us all recorded in John 14. For the Light Being we really are as regenerated Eternal Beings, having received the baptism Jesus performs himself upon anyone to receive His seed, White Stone, New Wineskin 'bottle'. Literal for Light Being "Spirit" within. And having that condition living in an old body leavening off as sin 'noun'. When all the leavening is done we might ask to examine for our own self, asking, "Is there a New Creation dwelling in a New Wineskin, Linen Garment inside? That for certain will be revealed having or not at our own appointed time to die. Then in Christ mindedness of the new creation, is as in the condition of Rom 7:22-25 while living in this old body that will perish one day too soon. A testimony of experience no speculation! Hope all is well and that we all endure to the end making it through the days ahead to fulfill the measure of Faith'ing verb'ing action given to do from the Master and Supreme Authority, Father and His Voice who still says, Follow Me.

 

[garee]

Judaizers don't "worship" shadows; rather, they take requirements of the OT law and push them on non-Jewish Christians, claiming that in order to become a Christian, one must first become a Jew. Circumcision was the primary point of contention in the first century; Sabbath is one of the primary points of contention now.

Yes they take requirements of the OT ceremonies laws as shadows laws and push them on non-Jewish Christians,

They refuse to look at the two different renderings of the ten commandments in which the different reasoning is given as a parable .Like the ceremonial circummsion they look to the surface not looking for the hidden understanding. They worship the shadows . The fulfillment of the first born our bloody husband Christ the substance .

They must make it about their own flesh as a self edifying lying wonder. Refusing to mix faith (the unseen eternal) in what they see or hear. literalizing away the gospel understanding.

The time of reformation came. The 70 foot veil was torn form the top to the bottom indicating the foreskin of the first born Our bloody husband Christ in so much that he (the father and Son) had finished doing all the work necessary to give us His grace the peace of God that does surpass the literal understanding..

Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;