Thief on the Cross

[tourist]

Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Isn't this exactly what the thief on the cross did? He didn't get baptized with water, which in itself does not save, but rather was baptized by the shed blood of Jesus Christ dying on the cross for his sins.

 

[tourist]

Well Jesus has a tool box like His Father and uses any tool in it as He pleases.

Exactly. If someone doesn't understand that then that's on them and not God. That person should pray for understanding so as to obtain the same salvation as the thief on the cross admitted his sins and asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into His kingdom.

 

[tourist]

I believe The thief went to the good side of Hades. That is also where I believe Jesus went during His 3 days in the Tomb.

It beats going to the bad side of Hades.

 

[tourist]

I believe it comes down to this...

It is a sincere heart condition that He looks at, regardless when we choose to believe and accept the softened heart for Him given.

Yes indeed, I believe that the first place Jesus looks at is the heart, and quite possibly it is really the only thing that truly matters to Him as far as we are concerned. Maybe the other thief on the cross had a change of heart as well I pray that this is true.

 

[preacher4truth]

I believe The thief went to the good side of Hades. That is also where I believe Jesus went during His 3 days in the Tomb.

Well, I've never heard of that one before. Have you heard it from somewhere?

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes indeed, I believe that the first place Jesus looks at is the heart, and quite possibly it is really the only thing that truly matters to Him as far as we are concerned. Maybe the other thief on the cross had a change of heart as well I pray that this is true.

He had a change of heart only if God did that work himself.

 

[PennEd]

Well, I've never heard of that one before. Have you heard it from somewhere?

Well, Jesus went somewhere for three days after death. Where did He go? He said the thief was going to be with Him THAT DAY. Here is Strong's definition of Paradise in Luke 23:43

1. 1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
   2) a garden, pleasure ground
   2a) grove, park
   3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
   4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
   5) heaven

It doesn't appear He went to Heaven with His Father during those 3 days. I think it's reasonable to say that between Ephesians:4
8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [d]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

And...... 1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Jesus went to Hades, and the Thief went to the good part of it.

Just talking. Could be wrong about it though.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well, Jesus went somewhere for three days after death. Where did He go? He said the thief was going to be with Him THAT DAY. Here is Strong's definition of Paradise in Luke 23:43

1. 1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
   2) a garden, pleasure ground
   2a) grove, park
   3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
   4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
   5) heaven

It doesn't appear He went to Heaven with His Father during those 3 days. I think it's reasonable to say that between Ephesians:4
8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [d]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

And...... 1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Jesus went to Hades, and the Thief went to the good part of it.

Just talking. Could be wrong about it though.

Reminds me of the 2 compartment theory that I forgot all about. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well, Jesus went somewhere for three days after death. Where did He go? He said the thief was going to be with Him THAT DAY. Here is Strong's definition of Paradise in Luke 23:43

1. 1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
   2) a garden, pleasure ground
   2a) grove, park
   3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
   4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
   5) heaven

It doesn't appear He went to Heaven with His Father during those 3 days. I think it's reasonable to say that between Ephesians:4
8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [d]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

And...... 1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Jesus went to Hades, and the Thief went to the good part of it.

Just talking. Could be wrong about it though.

Hello PennEd,

I agree except, I believe that Jesus also went to the place of comfort/paradise in Hades. And that because He said "today you will be with me in paradise. I also believe that it was those angels in tartartus that he visited to preach/announce His success. Because by their taking wives of human women, they attempted to corrupt His blood line. I believe that Jesus paid them a visit to announce their failure. That's just my thinking on it.

 

[glf1]

Right! We often hear people speak and use the verse "But God looks on our hearts" as if that is so comforting.

Wait a minute here? You mean God, GOD the LORD of Scripture looks on our hearts, and we're like swollen with pure gladness over this? Lolzzzz. Sometimes we don't think deeply enough into that prospect. Hebrews 4:12 anyone? Jeremiah 17:9?

Just think about that, God looks on our hearts, he knows every thought. And then, it is our hearts from where the action of our lives come from. I'm aware that not all of the thoughts of my heart are pure, holy, right, just, good. Uh-oh!

Well, praise God for his mercy and grace, that's for certain!

Hey! preacher... PTL!
I find that the Lord, looking to the heart for judgment as comforting because it contains the promise of being fair and not based upon the outward appearance.
Maranatha!

 

[Nehemiah6]

When did the New Covenant officially begin?

The moment Christ said "IT IS FINISHED" from the Cross, having poured out His blood of the New Covenant. This was confirmed by God the Father through the supernatural tearing of the temple veil from top to bottom.

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice [IT IS FINISHED], yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent... (Mt 27:50,51)

The Holy Place and the Holy of Holies (the Holiest Place) were the most significant aspects of the Old Covenant. The veil (or curtain) separating them was critical for maintaining the integrity of the Old Covenant. But once that veil was torn, God was telling Israel "It is finished", just as Christ was telling the world "It is finished". And there is much more to that declaration than simply this aspect.

As to the thief on the cross, he was justified by grace through faith, like every other saint. Baptism does not justify, but confirms that one is justified (if conversion is genuine). For him, baptism was not an option, and indeed Christian baptism could not begin until the Day of Pentecost (50 days later) and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

 

[John146]

Well, Jesus went somewhere for three days after death. Where did He go? He said the thief was going to be with Him THAT DAY. Here is Strong's definition of Paradise in Luke 23:43

1. 1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
   2) a garden, pleasure ground
   2a) grove, park
   3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
   4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
   5) heaven

It doesn't appear He went to Heaven with His Father during those 3 days. I think it's reasonable to say that between Ephesians:4
8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [d]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

And...... 1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Jesus went to Hades, and the Thief went to the good part of it.

Just talking. Could be wrong about it though.

I agree, although I would change Hades to Hell. Paradise (Abraham's bosom) was found on one side of the gulf and Hell fire on the other side. Jonah was a type of Christ in this matter.

 

[Wansvic]

The thief accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior when he said, Lord remember me when you come in to your kingdom.

The thief could not be baptized for he was on the cross, so baptism could be bypassed.

Also Jesus did not die and shed His blood yet, but yet the thief was saved when he accepted Jesus on the cross.

Jesus had many people that followed Him, and I am sure some died before Jesus shed His blood, but they are all saved, for it would not make sense that they should perish seeing they could not stop themselves from dying.

Also the Old Testament saints are saved without Jesus shedding His blood, for when Jesus shed His blood then they were saved, like anybody that followed Jesus, and then died before He shed His blood is saved.

John the Baptist had the Spirit from the womb, which is why Jesus said, among those born of women there has not arose a greater than John the Baptist, and that includes Mary, but he that is the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John.

Which means that John was not saved during his lifetime, and did not receive the Spirit from the womb to save him, but to give him power to live a right lifestyle, and to prepare the way for the Lord in the future.

John the Baptist was not saved during his lifetime, and none greater than him that had the Spirit from the womb, so of course he is saved before Jesus shed His blood, and then when Jesus shed His blood then John was saved.

The thief was saved without having to be water baptized, for when Jesus shed His blood then the thief was saved.

If there was more the thief should do to be saved he did all he could do in the circumstance he was in, so if there was anything else it does not apply in his situation.

But those in the book of Acts that were baptized unto John's baptism has to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

To further understand what I posted is to study out dispensations of time. A dispensation is a period of time in which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God. Hope this helps.

 

[PennEd]

I agree, although I would change Hades to Hell. Paradise (Abraham's bosom) was found on one side of the gulf and Hell fire on the other side. Jonah was a type of Christ in this matter.

Although the text in the rich man and Lazarus account does mention fire, we have to be careful in translating Hades into Gehenna.
No one is yet in the lake of fire which is Gehenna, but the dead are in Hades until the final judgement.

Hades/Sheol, Tartarus, & Gehenna are usually all translated as Hell. But they are different places with different functions.

 

[Wansvic]

No, not once have I wondered.
The thief openly said to our Lord he knew who he was, and demonstrated faith in him when the thief asked Jesus to remember him in paradise.
He entered into the covenant as we are all told is simple enough. By faith.
God chose us in his son, in the covenant of grace, before he created this world where his adversary prowls like unto a hungry lion and seeking souls to devour. We come to faith , our consciousness arrives at re-cognizing we are within and of God, as are all things created of, by, and for his purpose, will, and glory.

The thief to the other side of Jesus was not called and remained obstinate as he mocked Christ and his compatriot on the other cross. It is a three fold proof of salvation, belief, and disbelief and what transpires. Flesh to the ground from whence it came , while the soul given by God returns to the creator from whence it came. The other thief? Is the dead that know nothing. And yet, all came from God and so unto God all doth return. There can be no other place than the one from whence all things were created to be and not to be.

You mention the thief knew who Jesus was and having this faith saved him. Believing who Jesus is does not save a person according to the following scriptures:

Peter was the first to say he knew who Jesus was: "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Matt 16:16-17) Jesus later said: "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." Luke 22:31-32 Jesus implication is that a future event would occur that Peter would act upon and be converted.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

 

[Wansvic]

I can't help but thing there is a whole lot of Legalism in your OP.......

BTW ONLY ONE THIEF died on one of those 3 crosses that day. If you are keeping score:

1 - thief

1 - new convert

1 - Lord and Savior

Legalism is a dependence on moral law; such as the Old Testament law. Covenant responsibility has nothing to do with the law.

 

[PennEd]

You mention the thief knew who Jesus was and having this faith saved him. Believing who Jesus is does not save a person according to the following scriptures:

Peter was the first to say he knew who Jesus was: "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Matt 16:16-17) Jesus later said: "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." Luke 22:31-32 Jesus implication is that a future event would occur that Peter would act upon and be converted.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

This is Strong's "convert" from Luke 22:32

1. 1) transitively
   1a) to turn to
   1a1) to the worship of the true God
   1b) to cause to return, to bring back
   1b1) to the love and obedience of God
   1b2) to the love for the children
   1b3) to love wisdom and righteousness
   2) intransitively
   2a) to turn to one's self
   2b) to turn one's self about, turn back
   2c) to return, turn back, come back

Most translations don't render it as "convert". It is rendered as "turn back" or "repent" or "return". This passage is NOT about Peter becoming saved.

It is about a Sheep that has wandered, but he IS a Sheep!

 

[Wansvic]

The information shared about the thief on the cross takes into consideration how God dealt with people in different dispensations of time. A dispensation is a period of time in which man is tested in respect to obedience to specific revelation of the will of God.

 

[Wansvic]

I

This is Strong's "convert" from Luke 22:32

1. 1) transitively
   1a) to turn to
   1a1) to the worship of the true God
   1b) to cause to return, to bring back
   1b1) to the love and obedience of God
   1b2) to the love for the children
   1b3) to love wisdom and righteousness
   2) intransitively
   2a) to turn to one's self
   2b) to turn one's self about, turn back
   2c) to return, turn back, come back

Most translations don't render it as "convert". It is rendered as "turn back" or "repent" or "return". This passage is NOT about Peter becoming saved.

It is about a Sheep that has wandered, but he IS a Sheep!

Never heard this. Looks like a new area for study.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I always wonder why we take comfort in that God looks at the heart. It presumes we believe we are good, that our hearts are good, and boasts that God sees us this way as sincere. Ever think of this?

It is in reality not a comforting thought knowing our own hearts post-conversion and pre-conversion. We were under wrath pre-conversion; Ephesians 2:3.

Where did this sincere heart commence seeing none in the flesh (unregenerate man) are pleasing to God; Romans 8:8?

How is it that a darkened heart, incapable of coming to him (John 6:65 "cannot" means "unable" and let us not turn from him due to this truth as those in the next verse!) "believes" then gets a new sincere heart for their efforts?

We were quickened while we were dead; Ephesians 2, not quickened because we came alive through sincerity to accept a new heart. Nowhere is this found in Scripture or eternal salvation becomes a reward not a gift.

Isn't evidence of conversion the new heart and belief and not the cause? 1 Peter 1:3?

Bottom line, we don't have sincere hearts prior to conversion.

It scares me knowing He knows my heart.