There will be no Rapture!!!

[TheDivineWatermark]

They is referring to those in darkness, those lost and persecuting the Saints and happens at the return of Jesus.

I never said they are "saved" persons, did I?


And it is your presupposition (an incorrect one) that this "happens at the RETURN of Jesus" (if by that you mean: Rev19 / Matt24:29-31 / 2Th2:8b, etc);

Paul very clearly says that the ARRIVAL of the day of the Lord is "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" and he is talking about what Jesus had referred to when in His Olivet Discourse He spoke of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" which ARE the "SEALS" of Rev6 at the START of the Trib, the "BEGINNING" of these are followed by MANY MORE "birth pangs" (it is NOT just "ONE and DONE" when it comes to "birth PANGS"!! ); they are not what start at the Trib's conclusion!! but well-prior to the MID-point, even!




Study out about the "birth pangs" which the OT prophesied about also... you can start with Isaiah 26:13-21 (about Israel), which passage starts out with, "O Lord our God, other lords beside thee HAVE HAD DOMINION OVER US..." and further down, v17 starts by saying, "Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, IS IN PAIN, and CRIETH OUT IN HER PANGS..." ; and then take note of Hosea 5:14-6:3, where 5:15 says (re: Israel), "IN THEIR AFFLICTION, they shall seek Me early [/earnestly]" (and note also the TIMING issues spelled out in that context, from the perspective in time from His ascension... "after TWO DAYS" and "IN the THIRD DAY"--again, re: Israel).

 

[SavedByTheLord]

The word of God declares that there will be a rapture of the church. All that are saved at that time will be “caught up” to meet the Lord Jesus Christ is the air. They will be then taken to heaven during the almost 7-year tribulation which tries all “that dwell upon the earth”.

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.- - Rev 3:10

Paul wrote:

Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. – 2 Timothy 2:7

Paul wrote about the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. The phrase "caught up" is the rapture. Who is raptured? "brethren", that is the saved of Jesus Christ. They meet the Lord in the air and are taken to heaven. This is before the tribulation.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thess 4:13-18

 

[DRobinson]

I never said they are "saved" persons, did I?


And it is your presupposition (an incorrect one) that this "happens at the RETURN of Jesus" (if by that you mean: Rev19 / Matt24:29-31 / 2Th2:8b, etc);

Paul very clearly says that the ARRIVAL of the day of the Lord is "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" and he is talking about what Jesus had referred to when in His Olivet Discourse He spoke of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" which ARE the "SEALS" of Rev6 at the START of the Trib, the "BEGINNING" of these are followed by MANY MORE "birth pangs" (it is NOT just "ONE and DONE" when it comes to "birth PANGS"!! ); they are not what start at the Trib's conclusion!! but well-prior to the MID-point, even!

Study out about the "birth pangs" which the OT prophesied about also... you can start with Isaiah 26:13-21 (about Israel), which passage starts out with, "O Lord our God, other lords beside thee HAVE HAD DOMINION OVER US..." and further down, v17 starts by saying, "Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, IS IN PAIN, and CRIETH OUT IN HER PANGS..." ; and then take note of Hosea 5:14-6:3, where 5:15 says (re: Israel), "IN THEIR AFFLICTION, they shall seek Me early [/earnestly]" (and note also the TIMING issues spelled out in that context, from the perspective in time from His ascension... "after TWO DAYS" and "IN the THIRD DAY"--again, re: Israel).

The context is Paul is speaking of the return of Jesus.
He says He will not come as a thief in the night to those in the light but will to those in darkness.
Those who say peace and safety will suffer sudden and total destruction and this happens at the second coming of Jesus.
Your problem is that you try to find Scripture here and there that you believe proves what you belief when you should just believe what is clearly stated.

 

[cv5]

You seem to think you are more worthy to escape tribulation than Daniel and those who suffer every day.

Thanks friend.
Sorry, but such a question regarding my "worthiness" is between me and my Savior and his Grace toward me.
Utterly private and confidential and unknowable as far as you are concerned.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The passage tells us that this happens when Jesus comes.

The only place in this passage where the word "WHEN" is used (in the Greek), is in v.9.

There is NO "WHEN" word in v.7, as you keep insisting.

Rather, v.7 says (instead), "IN the revelation [noun] of..." (not "WHEN He is revealed [verb]"--There is NO WORD "WHEN" in this verse!)




If you grasp that ^... then go back and read my post and see if anything else "clears up" for you. = )




[If not, I can try again ]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

He says He will not come as a thief in the night to those in

The texts where the phrase "IN THE NIGHT" are used (with "like a thief"), it is referring to the arrival of A TIME-PERIOD (earthly-located, of much duration, with MUCH that will transpire WITHIN it!);

Wherever the texts are speaking of JESUS HIMSELF [/ HIS PERSON] (with the phrase "like a thief"), it NEVER uses the addition of the words "IN THE NIGHT" (ex. Rev16:15-16 re: His Second Coming to the earth, at the Armageddon time-slot).







Recap:

--"THE DAY OF THE LORD" is what ARRIVES as "a thief IN THE NIGHT" (again, an earthly-located TIME-PERIOD of lengthy duration, starting with JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth over SOME TIME [the "IN THE NIGHT" time period... which we call "the 7-yr Trib"--See again Amos 5:18, "WOE unto you that DESIRE the Day of the Lord..."--the verse speaks of "dark / darkness"] etc);

--Jesus HIMSELF "comes AS A THIEF. [period]"--NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase is ADDED when speaking of Jesus Himself!

 

[presidente]

The only place in this passage where the word "WHEN" is used (in the Greek), is in v.9.

There is NO "WHEN" word in v.7, as you keep insisting.

Rather, v.7 says (instead), "IN the revelation [noun] of..." (not "WHEN He is revealed [verb]"--There is NO WORD "WHEN" in this verse!)




If you grasp that ^... then go back and read my post and see if anything else "clears up" for you. = )




[If not, I can try again ]

Where do I keep insisting? How does the use of hotsn verses en help your case?

Both the vengeance on the wicked and Christ coming to be glorified in the saints are included here in the use of hotan/when...so how does that help your case?

Instead of being so concerned with the pre-tribulation Rapture and trying to defend it why not be concerned with understanding what the scriptures have to say,

 

[cv5]

"rest/repose with us IN THE REVELATION OF the Lord Jesus from heaven with His MIGHTY angels in FLAMING fire INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON them that know not God, and that obey/hearken not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (same persons that 2Th2:10-12 speaks of);

My home VPN is down lol. System admin is doing maintenance. No remote designing today maybe tonight.
So.....here we are at CC!

Anyhoo, just a thought re: 2 Thes 1:8

Evidently, it is the ANGELS who are inflicting this vengeance (seals, trumpets, bowls etc) from Rev 6 thru18.
Consequently, it is my view that this REST/REPOSE must occur BEFORE the first seal.
It is the Lord Jesus HIMSELF who inflicts judgment wrath in Rev ch 19.

What do you think?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Those who say peace and safety will suffer sudden and total destruction and this happens at the second coming of Jesus.
Your problem is that you try to find Scripture here and there that you believe proves what you belief when you should just believe what is clearly stated.

I do not see ANYWHERE in the "THREE WOES" (Trumpets 5, and 6, and 7) where ANYONE (esp. the UNSAVED) is saying "PEACE AND SAFETY," and certainly NOT in the moments JUST BEFORE the "SUDDEN" thing befalls them ("when" they are "saying" it)... I pointed out some of those texts, and no one was lookin' CHIPPER!... but if you can find it, let us know...

 

[cv5]

The texts where the phrase "IN THE NIGHT" are used (with "like a thief"), it is referring to the arrival of A TIME-PERIOD (earthly-located, of much duration, with MUCH that will transpire WITHIN it!);

Wherever the texts are speaking of JESUS HIMSELF [/ HIS PERSON] (with the phrase "like a thief"), it NEVER uses the addition of the words "IN THE NIGHT" (ex. Rev16:15-16 re: His Second Coming to the earth, at the Armageddon time-slot).







Recap:

--"THE DAY OF THE LORD" is what ARRIVES as "a thief IN THE NIGHT" (again, an earthly-located TIME-PERIOD of lengthy duration, starting with JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth over SOME TIME [the "IN THE NIGHT" time period... which we call "the 7-yr Trib"--See again Amos 5:18, "WOE unto you that DESIRE the Day of the Lord..."--the verse speaks of "dark / darkness"] etc);

--Jesus HIMSELF "comes AS A THIEF. [period]"--NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase is ADDED when speaking of Jesus Himself!

Looks like our new friend @DRobinson is making the same errors, fumbles, and reading comprehension/logical short-circuits as all of the other post-tribbers.

Well.....it is an opportunity at any rate. The good seed ALWAYS germinates in the good soil.
The other soils? Not so much.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Anyhoo, just a thought re: 2 Thes 1:8

Evidently, it is the ANGELS who are inflicting this vengeance (seals, trumpets, bowls etc) from Rev 6 thru18.
Consequently, it is my view that this REST/REPOSE must occur BEFORE the first seal.
It is the Lord Jesus HIMSELF who inflicts judgment wrath in Rev ch 19.

What do you think?

Right. BECAUSE v.7 is NOT saying "WHEN," it is stating the fact of "[rest/repose with us] IN THE REVELATION OF... [and so forth...]" (and notice how 2Th2:10-12's "...God SHALL SEND TO THEM strong delusion THAT THEY should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" also speaks of that same time-period... iow, they don't just "believe the lie" at the last "moment" of the Trib, or the last 24-hr day of it...; This is also speaking of the SPANS OF TIME in which these "judgments" will be unfolding upon the earth, including "the man of sin" AS an aspect of "judgment" ("whose COMING" v.9a is at the START of the 7-yr period), etc...; That's the ARRIVAL of "the day of the Lord" time period...its initial moments... (and the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect of it IS the 7-yr Trib judgments).



[WE do not step one foot INTO that time-period]

 

[WMarkB]

I’m not sure if my post will actually be approved, but this thread played a huge part in my decision. Take care y’all

 

[WMarkB]

PS: Last thought: the fact that posts need approved before posting like we’re children needing teacher’s permission, is insulting to me as an adult.

 

[cv5]

I do not see ANYWHERE in the "THREE WOES" (Trumpets 5, and 6, and 7) where ANYONE (esp. the UNSAVED) is saying "PEACE AND SAFETY," and certainly NOT in the moments JUST BEFORE the "SUDDEN" thing befalls them ("when" they are "saying" it)... I pointed out some of those texts, and no one was lookin' CHIPPER!... but if you can find it, let us know...

Oh and it gets WORSE after the third woe. Much much worse.

Only AFTER the 7th trumpet/3rd woe does the AC reach the pinnacle of power (being indwelt by Satan) to wreak havok in earnest upon the tribulation saints. Not only that, there is every reason to believe that the two different cohorts of the Rev 9 demon hoards (bottomless pit and Euphrates) are probably STILL ON THE EARTH by Rev 13. Which is likely one of the reasons that men decide to worship the beast. Why? Because THE BEAST CANNOT BE KILLED. And same goes for the demon hoards most likely. Both an unkillable unbeatable army. And army POWERFUL ENOUGHT TO CHALLENGE GOD HIMSELF.

THAT is probably why men choose to worship the beast. A total rebellion of men and fallen angels against heaven. Very much a pre-flood scenario, which Jesus notes with purpose.

Rev 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:6
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 

[cv5]

PS: Last thought: the fact that posts need approved before posting like we’re children needing teacher’s permission, is insulting to me as an adult.

Sorry to see you go buddy. Best thing you can do is read what @TheDivineWatermark is posting.

You will learn a lot. Oh yes....here you go. You really want to learn Biblical truths? Then learn.

• Series
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• Speakers
• Categories

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/?sb=downloads

 

[Cameron143]

PS: Last thought: the fact that posts need approved before posting like we’re children needing teacher’s permission, is insulting to me as an adult.

Rather than leave, why not pray for people here, engage lovingly and bring correction?

 

[cv5]

Rather than leave, why not pray for people here, engage lovingly and bring correction?

Revelation of and understanding the actual God-breathed Truth of the Word is the #1 prayer we need around here brother.

The pope in his one world religion ecumenical ambitions prays that other stuff all day long.

 

[Cameron143]

Revelation of and understanding the actual God-breathed Truth of the Word is the #1 prayer we need around here brother.

The pope in his one world religion ecumenical ambitions prays that other stuff all day long.

I would think the exercise of love and a hunger and thirst for righteousness might be a better place to start.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

God will not call Israel His people again until they acknowledge His Son as their Messiah and king and this does not happen until Jesus returns.

Once He "RETURNS," it is TOO LATE!

What Scripture leads you to the conclusion that the "timing" you name above is when this happens??









[And let the readers not forget about the "144,000" (12,000 of each of the tribes of Israel listed there) who are just the "FIRSTFRUIT" (of the "wheat" harvest), not the harvest in its entirety... ; and the ones He calls "the least of these My brethren" who are not the ones BEING "judged / separated" in the Sheep and goats judgment of the nationS, who (those of the nationS) are either called "ye BLESSED" (because they themselves "BLESSED" / aided these) or "ye CURSED" (because they did not)... reflective of a familiar OT passage regarding a certain "BLESS / CURSE" matter involving and pertaining to Israel (others toward them, that is)... and so much more...]

 

[cv5]

I would think the exercise of love and a hunger and thirst for righteousness might be a better place to start.

Ok man. But I disagree lol. No truth (about the Savior), no salvation.