There will be no Rapture!!!
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Well, I'm mature enough to admit this:
You ARE going to suffer God's wrath, the tribulation. God WILL give you what you choose to believe.
The demon hoard. The beheadings.
Best prepare yourself friend. Enjoy buddy.
Rev 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 15:1
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
You ARE going to suffer God's wrath, the tribulation. God WILL give you what you choose to believe.
The demon hoard. The beheadings.
Best prepare yourself friend. Enjoy buddy.
Rev 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 15:1
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
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@selahsays :
What is the disagreement with me now friend?
Why are you worried as to your inevitable fate? Where did your courage flee to?
Or are you now a pre-tribber?
You made your bed buddy. Now you are too timid to lay in it?
What is the disagreement with me now friend?
Why are you worried as to your inevitable fate? Where did your courage flee to?
Or are you now a pre-tribber?
You made your bed buddy. Now you are too timid to lay in it?
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Considering that in the last days:
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. - 2 Tim 3:13
I notice that those who hold a number of lies, especially lies that touch the gospel of Christ, usually have a lot of lies. Those that deny the pre-trip rapture have many other lies that they believe.
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. - 2 Tim 3:13
I notice that those who hold a number of lies, especially lies that touch the gospel of Christ, usually have a lot of lies. Those that deny the pre-trip rapture have many other lies that they believe.
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Revelation 9: 1-6
Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
I cannot die. I can suffer, I can be tempted, I can feel pain; yet my God will always offer me a way of escape—always has; always will. I am sealed (in my forehead) with the Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:3). I am blessed with His counsel at every turn of events in my life. When God’s wrath comes (different from the wrath of Satan in Revelation 9), which is after the 7th trump, I will be in my spiritual, incorruptible body, No worries. I am well prepared.
Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
I cannot die. I can suffer, I can be tempted, I can feel pain; yet my God will always offer me a way of escape—always has; always will. I am sealed (in my forehead) with the Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:3). I am blessed with His counsel at every turn of events in my life. When God’s wrath comes (different from the wrath of Satan in Revelation 9), which is after the 7th trump, I will be in my spiritual, incorruptible body, No worries. I am well prepared.
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Totally agree buddy. There are a TON of apostates on this site.
And there are others, the good soil, who immediately understand the truth when they see it! Those be the blessed.
But the Lord Jesus is the omniscient Judge of all, who knows the thoughts and intents of the heart, and knows who are His.
And there are others, the good soil, who immediately understand the truth when they see it! Those be the blessed.
But the Lord Jesus is the omniscient Judge of all, who knows the thoughts and intents of the heart, and knows who are His.
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Like I said.....enjoy the horrors of the post-tribber wrath of God.
While I enjoy my honeymoon with my Husband in the Fathers house in heaven. Singing a new song.....
Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
While I enjoy my honeymoon with my Husband in the Fathers house in heaven. Singing a new song.....
Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
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Your being convinced of an eschatology (without offering any real coherent support for the major details of it from scripture, which I keep pressing you for), doesn't force God to follow your eschatological plan. You agree with me that there is no reason to think that God is angry with the tribulational saints mentioned in the book of Revelation, yet you still want to use that verse as a prooftext .
Let me ask you, can other men be very angry with genuine Christians now? Can Satan be very angry at Christians now? Is it wrong to read verses out of Leviticus or Romans about sexual perversions? No it isn't. What would happen if you took your Bible, went to a big wild LGBT parade, and read those scriptures loudly to the crowd? Do you think someone in the crowd might experience some wrath against you? If so, does that mean 'ye are not appointed unto wrath' is false?
The wrath in that verse is a different wrath, from a different source, "ye are not appointed unto wrath but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." It is the wrath that is contrasted with salvation. Romans 2 speaks of the one who is contentious who does not obey the truth, but obeys unrighteousness getting rendered 'indignation and wrath.' If people get angry at you and persecute you for your faith, as happened to some early saints, that doesn't mean that you are 'appointed unto wrath.'
You seem to imply that my not accepting your pre-trib view sets me up for going through the tribulation, which would mean I would miss the rapture. That is a particularly dumb pretrib theory-- that getting raptured depends on believing pretrib. I know some of the Harold Camping followers thought that way, at least two times across at least a couple of decades that he set a specific timeframe when He argued that Jesus would come back. Those who didn't agree with his date-setting were supposed to get left behind. Well, they didnt' get raptured, either.
Their theories about the end times didn't change the way God is going to carry things out, nor did it change the promises of scripture toward those who did not believe in their theory. Neither do your theories.
You can puff out your chest and brag about how great pretribbers are doing in these threads, post like you did above. It would be a lot simpler if you could actually produce some kind of scripture that indicates that Jesus is coming back before the tribulation that a rapture or resurrection occurs before them, or something that would back up the trib case.
You also don't deal with fact that Paul taught certain things that happen at Jesus coming:
1. the rapture of the church (I Thessalonians 4)
2. the church gets rest from tribulation
3. when Jesus coms executing vengeance on them that know not God (II Thess. 1)
4 the lawless one is destroyed (II Thess. 2:8.)
Your praising TDW's posts that in an elaborate indirect way try to argue that the day of the Lord can take more than a day doesn't solve it. Even if the 'day' is long, when Jesus comes back, He gives the church rest, executes vengeance on unbelievers, when He comes to be glorified in the saints. The length of the day doesn't deal with the fact that Jesus does these things when He comes, and the Bible doesn't teach it's two trips. The Bible calls Jesus return the 'parousia.' Pre-tribbers want to invent two trips without evidence and assign some events of the parousia to one trip and some to another. But they can't produce scripture for two trips.
If I wanted, I could argue for a separate trip for everything Jesus does at the parousia, and multiple raptures, but it wouldn't make sense to do so.
Let me ask you, can other men be very angry with genuine Christians now? Can Satan be very angry at Christians now? Is it wrong to read verses out of Leviticus or Romans about sexual perversions? No it isn't. What would happen if you took your Bible, went to a big wild LGBT parade, and read those scriptures loudly to the crowd? Do you think someone in the crowd might experience some wrath against you? If so, does that mean 'ye are not appointed unto wrath' is false?
The wrath in that verse is a different wrath, from a different source, "ye are not appointed unto wrath but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." It is the wrath that is contrasted with salvation. Romans 2 speaks of the one who is contentious who does not obey the truth, but obeys unrighteousness getting rendered 'indignation and wrath.' If people get angry at you and persecute you for your faith, as happened to some early saints, that doesn't mean that you are 'appointed unto wrath.'
You seem to imply that my not accepting your pre-trib view sets me up for going through the tribulation, which would mean I would miss the rapture. That is a particularly dumb pretrib theory-- that getting raptured depends on believing pretrib. I know some of the Harold Camping followers thought that way, at least two times across at least a couple of decades that he set a specific timeframe when He argued that Jesus would come back. Those who didn't agree with his date-setting were supposed to get left behind. Well, they didnt' get raptured, either.
Their theories about the end times didn't change the way God is going to carry things out, nor did it change the promises of scripture toward those who did not believe in their theory. Neither do your theories.
You can puff out your chest and brag about how great pretribbers are doing in these threads, post like you did above. It would be a lot simpler if you could actually produce some kind of scripture that indicates that Jesus is coming back before the tribulation that a rapture or resurrection occurs before them, or something that would back up the trib case.
You also don't deal with fact that Paul taught certain things that happen at Jesus coming:
1. the rapture of the church (I Thessalonians 4)
2. the church gets rest from tribulation
3. when Jesus coms executing vengeance on them that know not God (II Thess. 1)
4 the lawless one is destroyed (II Thess. 2:8.)
Your praising TDW's posts that in an elaborate indirect way try to argue that the day of the Lord can take more than a day doesn't solve it. Even if the 'day' is long, when Jesus comes back, He gives the church rest, executes vengeance on unbelievers, when He comes to be glorified in the saints. The length of the day doesn't deal with the fact that Jesus does these things when He comes, and the Bible doesn't teach it's two trips. The Bible calls Jesus return the 'parousia.' Pre-tribbers want to invent two trips without evidence and assign some events of the parousia to one trip and some to another. But they can't produce scripture for two trips.
If I wanted, I could argue for a separate trip for everything Jesus does at the parousia, and multiple raptures, but it wouldn't make sense to do so.
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So do you know when the Lord Jesus will return? How can you know if he and yourself will live long enough for that to happen?
That is another problem with your theory.. In Matthew 24, speaking of the events surrounding coming of the Son of Man which happens AFTER the tribulation, Jesus says, 'But of that day and hour knoweth no man...'
If the coming of the Son of Man happens seven years after the rapture, then won't it be easy to calculate the date of His coming. "Let's see, those planes fell out of the sky and buses crashed back when the Christian pilots got raptured 6 years and 11 months ago.."
That is another problem with your theory.. In Matthew 24, speaking of the events surrounding coming of the Son of Man which happens AFTER the tribulation, Jesus says, 'But of that day and hour knoweth no man...'
If the coming of the Son of Man happens seven years after the rapture, then won't it be easy to calculate the date of His coming. "Let's see, those planes fell out of the sky and buses crashed back when the Christian pilots got raptured 6 years and 11 months ago.."
Who says God's wrath has come in Rev.6:16?
It is the ungodly men of this world and you believe them. I do not.
Rev.15:1 is when Jesus returns.
Tribulation and wrath are two different words with two different meanings.
Stop being deceived by these false teachers that claim to be anointed.
It is the ungodly men of this world and you believe them. I do not.
Rev.15:1 is when Jesus returns.
Tribulation and wrath are two different words with two different meanings.
Stop being deceived by these false teachers that claim to be anointed.
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You keep leaving out a very important part of that passage (v.9), which says, "Who [identifying them] SHALL BE [FUTURE tense] punished with everlasting destruction FROM the presence of the Lord, and FROM the glory of His power [10 WHEN He comes TO BE... and TO BE...]"
"rest/repose with us IN THE REVELATION OF the Lord Jesus from heaven with His MIGHTY angels in FLAMING fire INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON them that know not God, and that obey/hearken not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (same persons that 2Th2:10-12 speaks of);
1) the underlined ^ is speaking of a SPANS OF TIME, parallel to:
a) "...he shall AVENGE them *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*" - Luke 18:8
b) SAME underlined phrase as used in Rev1:1 "things which must come to pass *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*" (1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1), referring to the things spelled out from 4:1 [scene in heavenly throne room] , 6:1-chpt 19 (His "return" to the earth), i.e. the "FUTURE" aspects of the book;
c) SAME underline phrase as used in Romans 16:20 (this, speaking to / for / about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" / us), "God... shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*"--same time-span (7-yrs / 2520 days) spoken of in all references above (but differing location
); see 1Cor6:3[,14] "know ye not that we SHALL JUDGE ANGELS?"
Then after the "INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON" (think: "7 angels" with Trumpets, and "7 angels" with Vials --over SOME TIME), THEN this Thess passage goes on to say, "9 WHO [identifying them] SHALL BE [future tense to that stuff, i.e. AT HIS SECOND COMING to the earth point in time] punished with everlasting punishment AWAY-FROM the presence of the Lord and AWAY-FROM the glory of His power" (NO "BLESSED" MK age FOR THEM!!!)
"rest/repose with us IN THE REVELATION OF the Lord Jesus from heaven with His MIGHTY angels in FLAMING fire INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON them that know not God, and that obey/hearken not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (same persons that 2Th2:10-12 speaks of);
1) the underlined ^ is speaking of a SPANS OF TIME, parallel to:
a) "...he shall AVENGE them *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*" - Luke 18:8
b) SAME underlined phrase as used in Rev1:1 "things which must come to pass *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*" (1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1), referring to the things spelled out from 4:1 [scene in heavenly throne room] , 6:1-chpt 19 (His "return" to the earth), i.e. the "FUTURE" aspects of the book;
c) SAME underline phrase as used in Romans 16:20 (this, speaking to / for / about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" / us), "God... shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET *IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]*"--same time-span (7-yrs / 2520 days) spoken of in all references above (but differing location
); see 1Cor6:3[,14] "know ye not that we SHALL JUDGE ANGELS?"Then after the "INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON" (think: "7 angels" with Trumpets, and "7 angels" with Vials
--over SOME TIME), THEN this Thess passage goes on to say, "9 WHO [identifying them] SHALL BE [future tense to that stuff, i.e. AT HIS SECOND COMING to the earth point in time] punished with everlasting punishment AWAY-FROM the presence of the Lord and AWAY-FROM the glory of His power" (NO "BLESSED" MK age FOR THEM!!!)-
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"knoweth / knows" is in the "perfect tense"...
... Then Jesus ascended, and some 60+ years later, chose to disclose FURTHER INFORMATION on THAT Subject, in "The Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [/unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO..." ... which book is filled with numerous time stamps and timing-indicators that point (time-wise / timing-wise) to His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), the Subject of the the Matthew 24:36 passage (and its parallel passages).
It is not the case that He still does not know (after His resurrection / ascension / exaltation); and the text is not saying "no one CAN or WILL EVER KNOW" or the like.
... Then Jesus ascended, and some 60+ years later, chose to disclose FURTHER INFORMATION on THAT Subject, in "The Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [/unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO..." ... which book is filled with numerous time stamps and timing-indicators that point (time-wise / timing-wise) to His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), the Subject of the the Matthew 24:36 passage (and its parallel passages).
It is not the case that He still does not know (after His resurrection / ascension / exaltation); and the text is not saying "no one CAN or WILL EVER KNOW" or the like.
From Suffering to Glory (Romans 8:18-30)
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [a]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession [b]for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will ofGod.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [a]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession [b]for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will ofGod.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.