There will be no Rapture!!!

[cv5]

Do you think God must have had those prophets wise men and scribes persecuted because he was angry at them because his wrath was against them?

if Paul was beheaded was that because God was angry at him?

Look man, I really need to put you on ignore again lol.
These questions are getting too unserious.

Sorry buddy maybe next time.

 

[BeeBlessed]

If that is true I wonder why Paul was so apparently confused when he used the Greek word for rapture which is harpazo. Why would he write about the rapture when there is no rapture?

"harpazo" is the Greek word for "rapture".

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up HARPAZO/RAPTURE together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When this verse was translated into Latin from Greek, the Greek word "harpazo" was replaced by the the Latin word "rapio" meaning "to catch up" or "take away" (the Latin noun "raptus" "a carrying off"). The Latin word “rapiemur” is the word St. Jerome used for “caught up” when he translated 1 Thess 4:17 in the Latin Vulgate Bible. From “rapiemur” came the modern Englsih word "rapture".

Paul was not confused, but the Thessalonian Christians were, and so are you. They didn’t know where their dead were, and in context, that’s what 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is all about. He didn’t want them to be ignorant and without hope. He wanted them to be assured that “those who sleep in Jesus” were already with Him and would be returning with Him when He comes again. If we are still alive when Christ returns, we will see Him descend, and with Him a great cloud (Strong’s 3507 nephele, derived from 3509 nephos, multitude) of witnesses (the Thessalonian Christian’s’ long-lost dead and many more), and we will meet Him here on earth in the air (Strong’s 109 aer, the air of the lower atmosphere) in our spiritual bodies, freshly changed ”in the twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:52). This happens at the seventh trump. We won’t be going anywhere. Jesus Christ our King is coming to us and bringing with Him all of those who lived by faith before us.

 

[cv5]

Paul was not confused, but the Thessalonian Christians were, and so are you. They didn’t know where their dead were, and in context, that’s what 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is all about. He didn’t want them to be ignorant and without hope. He wanted them to be assured that “those who sleep in Jesus” were already with Him and would be returning with Him when He comes again. If we are still alive when Christ returns, we will see Him descend, and with Him a great cloud (Strong’s 3507 nephele, derived from 3509 nephos, multitude) of witnesses (the Thessalonian Christian’s’ long-lost dead and many more), and we will meet Him here on earth in the air (Strong’s 109 aer, the air of the lower atmosphere) in our spiritual bodies, freshly changed ”in the twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:52). This happens at the seventh trump. We won’t be going anywhere. Jesus Christ our King is coming to us and bringing with Him all of those who lived by faith before us.

A lot of people muse over this 7th trumpet mid-trib business.

However, this does NOT concatenate with the intended, intentional exemplar:
The TWO STAGE Jewish wedding procedure.

First the HARPAZO. Then the 7 day (7 year) honeymoon. Then the WEDDING SUPPER/FEAST where the already married Husband and Wife are the focus of celebration.

 

[BeeBlessed]

This is totally false and contrary to what Christ has said. But some people love their humanistic ideas more than divine revelation. We see this all the time.

There is VERY DEFINITELY a Rapture for many biblical reasons. After that there is very definitely the Second Coming of Christ to earth.

You should get your timeline straight. Your comment is vague to the extreme. I assume you are referencing Mt. 24:31 when you say, “what Christ has said.” The gathering of the elect in Christ’s timeline happens after the tribulation.

 

[BeeBlessed]

A lot of people muse over this 7th trumpet mid-trib business.

However, this does NOT concatenate with the intended, intentional exemplar:
The TWO STAGE Jewish wedding procedure.

First the HARPAZO. Then the 7 day (7 year) honeymoon. Then the WEDDING SUPPER/FEAST where the already married Husband and Wife are the focus of celebration.

Perhaps you are musing. I’m not. Scripturally, I see quite a few holes in your concatenation theory. They have been thoroughly discussed in this thread. I’m not trying to change your mind; and you won’t change mine. I do pray that all these discussions lead to personal Bible studies and revelation to those who are truly searching.

 

[cv5]

Perhaps you are musing. I’m not. Scripturally, I see quite a few holes in your concatenation theory. They have been thoroughly discussed in this thread. I’m not trying to change your mind; and you won’t change mine. I do pray that all these discussions lead to personal Bible studies and revelation to those who are truly searching.

Friend......in terms of end time eschatology, my journey is just about over. My house is in order.
Now all that there needs be is maintenance.

I am off on other Biblical pursuits. Which have been SPECTACULARLY fruitful beyond my most hopeful wishes.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul was not confused, but the Thessalonian Christians were, and so are you.

Incorrect. The obvious point was there is a rapture because Paul literally wrote about a rapture. The only issue is when it happens, and scripture only provides one timeframe, post-trib. Mid-trib and Pre-trib do not come from or are in scripture.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

put the pipe down!

Naww... I gave up smoking when I was 12.


( )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Friend......in terms of end time eschatology, my journey is just about over. My house is in order.
Now all that there needs be is maintenance.

I am off on other Biblical pursuits. Which have been SPECTACULARLY fruitful beyond my most hopeful wishes.

I've got a sort of off-topic question for you. Have you been to any prophecy conferences that you could recommend? I'm wanting to attend one again at some point, but I'm thinking I'll likely have to stick to one in my hemisphere. But... got any you might suggest for my consideration?

Just thought I'd ask.

Last one I went to was a few years ago (it was so-so), and local (small). lol

 

[cv5]

Now pay attention! How do you know they are the tribulation saints unless you first ASSUME the church is gone? And if you first assume the church is gone you are illogical because you are arguing in a circle. You are begging the question? And if it is illogical you do not have the mind of God because God thinks straight. If you arbitrarily make these the tribulation saints. The only way you can do it is to "ASSMUME" your position is right, and you can't assume you position is right, you have to prove your position.

Friend, take note of the fact that "Churches" and "Christians" ON THE EARTH are clustered in Revelation chapters 2 and 3. These same Christians are then seen as REDEEMED with glorified bodies located in Heaven in the throne room of God in Revelation 4 and 5.

And that's it. That's all there is for the Christians in the book of Revelation. Christians are never seen nor spoken of again.....until Rev 19.

It is the Bride that becomes known in Revelation chapter 19, representing the former Church that once existed during the Church age.

And for your information realize that 144,000 Jews are indeed elect "saints" during the tribulation along with the elect gentile tribulation "saints". Neither of which group are Christians.

So much for assumptions.

 

[cv5]

I've got a sort of off-topic question for you. Have you been to any prophecy conferences that you could recommend? I'm wanting to attend one again at some point, but I'm thinking I'll likely have to stick to one in my hemisphere. But... got any you might suggest for my consideration?

Just thought I'd ask.

Last one I went to was a few years ago (it was so-so), and local (small). lol

I will PM you tomorrow bro. And I am flattered by your request just to let you know......

 

[cv5]

Perhaps you are musing. I’m not. Scripturally, I see quite a few holes in your concatenation theory. They have been thoroughly discussed in this thread. I’m not trying to change your mind; and you won’t change mine. I do pray that all these discussions lead to personal Bible studies and revelation to those who are truly searching.

The Jewish wedding ceremony exemplar as it relates to the epic sweep of end time eschatology, the Church, Israel and gentiles is Biblically boilerplate and bulletproof. That's for sure.

But what I would like you to respond to is my bone crushing resounding refutation of your preposterous statement (your post #742) that "there is no rapture taught in Scripture".

When in fact there are a boatload of them.

 

[presidente]

Look man, I really need to put you on ignore again lol.
These questions are getting too unserious.

Sorry buddy maybe next time.

So when someone pokes a big hole in your argument, then you deflect like that, and threaten to put him on 'ignore'?

If being beheaded means one 'appointed unto wrath', and if Paul was beheaded as tradition teaches, then why wouldn't Paul be 'appointed wrath'.... as opposed to being appointed to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?

Suffering and wrath are NOT the same things. There is no reason to think that the tribulational saints are 'appointed unto wrath', not God's wrath.

 

[cv5]

Suffering and wrath are NOT the same things. There is no reason to think that the tribulational saints are 'appointed unto wrath', not God's wrath.

Presidente......Please review my reply to you my post #760.
I have already explained my position. You just did not pick up on it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Your comment is vague to the extreme.

On the contrary it is quite clear. And Matthew 24 makes no reference to the Rapture. Christ does NOT send His angels to gather the Church to the land of Israel. Instead He comes personally for His Bride and takes her back to Heaven. See 1 Thessalonians 4.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And Matthew 24 makes no reference to the Rapture. Christ does NOT send His angels to gather the Church to the land of Israel.

Right. And that is what many are missing... the fact that Matthew 24:29-31 corresponds with what is spoken of in Isaiah 27:9,12-13, about the elect OF ISRAEL being gathered "one by one," and they shall "worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM"... This is at the "GREAT" trumpet (both passages stating this), which is AFTER the 7-yr period.

And this is important, because in Luke 21:24 (speaking of the 70ad events in that section, vv.12-24a,b), it says, "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be TRODDEN DOWN OF the Gentiles, UNTIL the TIMES of the Gentiles be fulfilled"... Now, mind you, "the TIMES of the Gentiles" [and associated "TRODDEN DOWN OF the Gentiles"] is NOT talking about "the Church age," no.

The phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" refers to Gentile domination over Israel which started in 606/605bc (Neb's dream / statue / image... with Neb as "head of gold"--see also Hab1:6,12!!--God USED them/the Chaldeans/Babylonians as His instrument to execute JUDGMENT)... This phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is a distinct matter from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles BE COME IN [G1525]"...

... so what Lk21:24 is saying is that "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (and Jerusalem "TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles UNTIL" [involving the beast]) will not be concluded until Christ's Second Coming to the earth, at which time, the believing remnant of Israel will be GATHERED TO JERUSALEM (to worship Him); This is NOT a "rapture [IN THE AIR]" passage and is not speaking of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (us)... Rather, it is the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 [re: Israel] / Rom11:26-27,15 [re: Israel] / Isaiah 27:9,12-13 [re: Israel]... and many other related passages regarding the promises made TO THEM.

 

[cv5]

Now pay attention! How do you know they are the tribulation saints unless you first ASSUME the church is gone? And if you first assume the church is gone you are illogical because you are arguing in a circle. You are begging the question? And if it is illogical you do not have the mind of God because God thinks straight. If you arbitrarily make these the tribulation saints. The only way you can do it is to "ASSMUME" your position is right, and you can't assume you position is right, you have to prove your position.

Ask yourself the following:
-what ever happened to the "great commission" given to the Church in Rev 6-18?
-why has the identifiable Church stopped preaching in Rev 6-18?
-why is any Church or Church elders or any Christians are never named/identified in Rev 6-18?
-who/which group is ELECTED to do the preaching of the Kingdom in Rev 6-18? Who are they and where do they come from?
-what message is being preached in Rev 6-18?

Keep in mind that the tribulation is the 70th week of Daniel allotted for Israel.

The fact is that the Church has already been raptured back in Rev 4 & 5. They are no longer around to pursue the "great commission".
And now the baton (in terms of preaching) has been passed to ISRAEL as the 144,000 Israelite "virgins" and Israelite 2 witnesses. This ISRAEL is now fulfilling its ORIGINAL MANDATE to preach to a lost world. And it is very effective (achieving what they failed to do in much of the OT times).

And there you have it brother. A nice tight eschatological package. No loose ends, no hanging verses, no irrational paradoxes.
Done and done.

 

[cv5]

Just reported all of this massive persecution of the pre-tribbers on this thread. Totally unacceptable.

 

[DRobinson]

Just reported all of this massive persecution of the pre-tribbers on this thread. Totally unacceptable.

Says the man who has given over 300 red X's

 

[DRobinson]

If I am banned because I use what is provided to show I disagree with a post, so be it.
If I am warned you can just cancel my account.