There will be no Rapture!!!
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There is no rapture taught in scripture; nor is there any need to be snatched away from harm. Jesus Christ has promised to return for us one, and only one more time at the end of this age of grace. As Christians, we already have His full protection—not from suffering or tribulation here on earth, but from eternal separation from Him. We can expect to both see and experience tribulation; we can expect to be called to testify against Satan with the help of the Holy Spirit; we can expect the comfort of the Spirit and the grace of our Lord to help us endure whatever we face. No power of the enemy can come against us. We are already “hidden with Christ in God.” When Jesus returns as King of kings and Lord of lords that one last time at the seventh trump, THEN, finally, in our spiritual bodies, we ”will appear with Him in glory.”
Colossians 3: 1-3…. If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
Colossians 3: 1-3…. If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
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If that is true I wonder why Paul was so apparently confused when he used the Greek word for rapture which is harpazo. Why would he write about the rapture when there is no rapture?
"harpazo" is the Greek word for "rapture".
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up HARPAZO/RAPTURE together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
When this verse was translated into Latin from Greek, the Greek word "harpazo" was replaced by the the Latin word "rapio" meaning "to catch up" or "take away" (the Latin noun "raptus" "a carrying off"). The Latin word “rapiemur” is the word St. Jerome used for “caught up” when he translated 1 Thess 4:17 in the Latin Vulgate Bible. From “rapiemur” came the modern Englsih word "rapture".
Nope sorry. The temple destruction of Dan 9:26 occurs at the FUTURE (far future for Daniel!) time of 70th week trib prophecy. As is 9:25 and 9:27.
Are you confusing this with Dan 8:14, which occurs during the intertestamental period?
Dan 8:14
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
1) correction: 483 years later (7 X 69).
2) of course no rapture is mentioned FOR (future!) JEWS WHO ARE NOT CHRISTIANS in Matt 24. There is no rapture for Jews who are not Christians at the time of the 70th week!
In fact, the VERY REASON for the 70th week........IS TO BRING ISRAEL ***THROUGH*** the tribulation so that they COME TO FAITH IN THEIR MESSIAH! THATS THE WHOLE POINT of the Daniel prophecy! As well as a TON of other OT prophecies.
And here is ISRAEL'S confession and final redemption. There are far too many OT passages to list. Hundreds.
Hos 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
TOOLS
Hos 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Isa 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Of course there are tribulation saints. They COME to believe DURING the tribulation. Many because of the preaching of the 144,000 "virgins" and Two Witnesses. Very simple very obvious.
These trib saints are a PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION......in their own ORDER/RANK!
Are you confusing this with Dan 8:14, which occurs during the intertestamental period?
Dan 8:14
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
1) correction: 483 years later (7 X 69).
2) of course no rapture is mentioned FOR (future!) JEWS WHO ARE NOT CHRISTIANS in Matt 24. There is no rapture for Jews who are not Christians at the time of the 70th week!
In fact, the VERY REASON for the 70th week........IS TO BRING ISRAEL ***THROUGH*** the tribulation so that they COME TO FAITH IN THEIR MESSIAH! THATS THE WHOLE POINT of the Daniel prophecy! As well as a TON of other OT prophecies.
And here is ISRAEL'S confession and final redemption. There are far too many OT passages to list. Hundreds.
Hos 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
TOOLS
Hos 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Isa 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Of course there are tribulation saints. They COME to believe DURING the tribulation. Many because of the preaching of the 144,000 "virgins" and Two Witnesses. Very simple very obvious.
These trib saints are a PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION......in their own ORDER/RANK!
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This is totally false and contrary to what Christ has said. But some people love their humanistic ideas more than divine revelation. We see this all the time.
There is VERY DEFINITELY a Rapture for many biblical reasons. After that there is very definitely the Second Coming of Christ to earth.
There is VERY DEFINITELY a Rapture for many biblical reasons. After that there is very definitely the Second Coming of Christ to earth.
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Pardon me? No, that is a false statement.
The Spirit is HARPAZO-ing anybody He wants, whenever He wants, for whatever purposes He needs.
Including of course the BRIDE the CHURCH, who is HARPAZOed by the Bridegroom after the "midnight cry", to be whisked away to enjoy her 7 year honeymoon at the Father's house while the tribulation rages upon the "earth dwellers".
Act 8:39
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away G726 Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
2Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up G726 to the third heaven.
2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up G726 into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up G726 unto God, and to his throne.
The Spirit is HARPAZO-ing anybody He wants, whenever He wants, for whatever purposes He needs.
Including of course the BRIDE the CHURCH, who is HARPAZOed by the Bridegroom after the "midnight cry", to be whisked away to enjoy her 7 year honeymoon at the Father's house while the tribulation rages upon the "earth dwellers".
Act 8:39
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away G726 Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
2Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up G726 to the third heaven.2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up G726 into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up G726 unto God, and to his throne.
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That is a very silly question to be honest.
Saints ALWAYS obtain salvation and they are always elect. Unfortunately, all of these trib saints will suffer the horrors of the tribulation, and many must be (mercifully) beheaded. Thats just the way it is. But these believers are SAVED FROM THE SECOND DEATH. And truly that is all that matters. There will be gentile SAVED saints who survive and go on to refill the earth. And of course surviving Israelites who do the same.
Eternity in the Kingdom of Jesus Messiah. And a guest at the wedding feast. That is the privilege of the Tribulation Saints.
We, the CHURCH are the BRIDE, who ACCOMPANY THE HUSBAND AS HIS ALREADY MARRIED SPOUSE to the wedding feast.
We are NOT THE GUESTS.......we are the honored WIFE.
The HUSBAND and WIFE are not the GUESTS at their own wedding reception are they?
Saints ALWAYS obtain salvation and they are always elect. Unfortunately, all of these trib saints will suffer the horrors of the tribulation, and many must be (mercifully) beheaded. Thats just the way it is. But these believers are SAVED FROM THE SECOND DEATH. And truly that is all that matters. There will be gentile SAVED saints who survive and go on to refill the earth. And of course surviving Israelites who do the same.
Eternity in the Kingdom of Jesus Messiah. And a guest at the wedding feast. That is the privilege of the Tribulation Saints.
We, the CHURCH are the BRIDE, who ACCOMPANY THE HUSBAND AS HIS ALREADY MARRIED SPOUSE to the wedding feast.
We are NOT THE GUESTS.......we are the honored WIFE.
The HUSBAND and WIFE are not the GUESTS at their own wedding reception are they?
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Pardon me? No, that is a false statement.
The Spirit is HARPAZO-ing anybody He wants, whenever He wants, for whatever purposes He needs.
Including of course the BRIDE the CHURCH, who is HARPAZOed by the Bridegroom after the "midnight cry", to be whisked away to enjoy her 7 year honeymoon at the Father's house while the tribulation rages upon the "earth dwellers".
Act 8:39
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away G726 Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
2Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up G726 to the third heaven.
2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up G726 into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up G726 unto God, and to his throne.
The Spirit is HARPAZO-ing anybody He wants, whenever He wants, for whatever purposes He needs.
Including of course the BRIDE the CHURCH, who is HARPAZOed by the Bridegroom after the "midnight cry", to be whisked away to enjoy her 7 year honeymoon at the Father's house while the tribulation rages upon the "earth dwellers".
Act 8:39
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away G726 Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
2Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up G726 to the third heaven.2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up G726 into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
1Th 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up G726 together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up G726 unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 4:1
After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
Rev 11:11
Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.
Rev 11:12
And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.
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Just got done posting this on another thread here regarding the tribulation which applies here as well.
REPOST #29 from tribulation thread
The tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24 is not the end of times or the second coming of Christ as many erroneously believe. That tribulation happened with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
When you look Matt 24 and starting at verse 29, you must also consider the parallel scriptures in Luke 21 and Mark 13 for clarity, both of which read differently. The word "immediately" is not present, and it's easier to see that there are 2 separate events, namely, the fall of Jerusalem that has happened, and the very much later end of days and the second coming of the Lord, which obviously has not. And what does the word "immediately" mean, especially to the Lord? Immediately is subjective and not definitive and can mean anything one wishes it to mean. Does it mean the next day, or week, or year, or century, or ???? A day is as a thousand years to the Lord and a thousand years as a day.
REPOST #29 from tribulation thread
The tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24 is not the end of times or the second coming of Christ as many erroneously believe. That tribulation happened with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
When you look Matt 24 and starting at verse 29, you must also consider the parallel scriptures in Luke 21 and Mark 13 for clarity, both of which read differently. The word "immediately" is not present, and it's easier to see that there are 2 separate events, namely, the fall of Jerusalem that has happened, and the very much later end of days and the second coming of the Lord, which obviously has not. And what does the word "immediately" mean, especially to the Lord? Immediately is subjective and not definitive and can mean anything one wishes it to mean. Does it mean the next day, or week, or year, or century, or ???? A day is as a thousand years to the Lord and a thousand years as a day.
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So now there's three comings? Hebrews 9:28, "so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a SECOND time for a second time for salvation WITHOUT REFERENCE TO SIN, TO THOSE WHO EARGERLY AWAIT HIM."
He first came to die for the sins of mankind. He is coming a "SECOND" time after the tribulation. And you just said, "
These trib saints are a PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION......in their own ORDER/RANK![/QUOTE]" If there are part of the first resurrection tell us all here where that fits in between Jesus Christ first coming relating to sin and the second coming as it relates to getting us out of this upholstered cesspool we call earth?
Now pay attention! How do you know they are the tribulation saints unless you first ASSUME the church is gone? And if you first assume the church is gone you are illogical because you are arguing in a circle. You are begging the question? And if it is illogical you do not have the mind of God because God thinks straight. If you arbitrarily make these the tribulation saints. The only way you can do it is to "ASSMUME" your position is right, and you can't assume you position is right, you have to prove your position.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
He first came to die for the sins of mankind. He is coming a "SECOND" time after the tribulation. And you just said, "
These trib saints are a PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION......in their own ORDER/RANK![/QUOTE]" If there are part of the first resurrection tell us all here where that fits in between Jesus Christ first coming relating to sin and the second coming as it relates to getting us out of this upholstered cesspool we call earth?
Now pay attention! How do you know they are the tribulation saints unless you first ASSUME the church is gone? And if you first assume the church is gone you are illogical because you are arguing in a circle. You are begging the question? And if it is illogical you do not have the mind of God because God thinks straight. If you arbitrarily make these the tribulation saints. The only way you can do it is to "ASSMUME" your position is right, and you can't assume you position is right, you have to prove your position.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Aaaand some more raptures. Yep. Even more.
2Ki 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Gen 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
2Ki 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Gen 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
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Friend......there are plenty of people on this thread who are "illogical" and chasing their own tail "arguing in a circle".
But I ain't one of them. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about.
Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that I opine is within a framework of a tight logical scenario with a definitive termination point.
Thats the thing with the pre-trib rapture. No loose ends. No conflicts. No paradoxes. No "left hanging" Scripture passages. No confusion. Everybody who is gonna be saved is saved one way or another. Nobody who is elect gets left out, nobody who is not elect gets in. Done and done.
But I ain't one of them. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about.
Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that I opine is within a framework of a tight logical scenario with a definitive termination point.
Thats the thing with the pre-trib rapture. No loose ends. No conflicts. No paradoxes. No "left hanging" Scripture passages. No confusion. Everybody who is gonna be saved is saved one way or another. Nobody who is elect gets left out, nobody who is not elect gets in. Done and done.
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Nope. Not under wrath per se. Because those TRULY under wrath suffer the second death. The lake of fire.
Those are the beast, false prophet and beast worshippers. Doomed to eternal judgement.
These trib saints are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its just the way it is in the 70th week post-rapture scenario.
Same goes for the ELECT Israelite 144,000. Yes, they are protected (unlike trib saints who are killed).....but they still go
THROUGH the hellish wars, famines, massive earthquakes, meteors strikes etc etc. A daily nightmare.
Those are the beast, false prophet and beast worshippers. Doomed to eternal judgement.
These trib saints are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its just the way it is in the 70th week post-rapture scenario.
Same goes for the ELECT Israelite 144,000. Yes, they are protected (unlike trib saints who are killed).....but they still go
THROUGH the hellish wars, famines, massive earthquakes, meteors strikes etc etc. A daily nightmare.