There Will Be No Future Millennium On This Earth, A False Teaching Of Man

Truth7t7 · Apr 22, 2021

There is no such thing as a Millennial Kingdom on this earth found in scripture, where Jesus Christ rules amongst mortal humans on this earth.

This false teaching is preparing the way for the future (Man Of Sin/Antichrist), that will see a human man proclaiming to be Messiah God in Jerusalem.

Jesus Christ wont be found anywhere upon this earth, and he warned his followers of the false teaching found in Millennialism

"Go Not Forth" Believe It Not"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

MattforJesus · Apr 22, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

The LORD shall be king over all the earth, and in that day there shall be one LORD, and His name one, which means no person will acknowledge any god or religion but the LORD.

When has this ever happened and it states it is on earth.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The heathen have to go to Jerusalem every year to worship the LORD and when did that ever happen and it is on earth which all the people of the nations have to worship the LORD at Jerusalem every year.

Which it also testifies that it is on earth for there is no heathen in heaven the spiritual realm, and spiritual kingdom.

It plainly states it will be on earth.

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

The earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD which means no person will know anything but the ways of God.

When did that ever happen and it states it is on the earth.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus came to fulfill the law which He was a sinless man and fulfilled all the roles of Israel, and the temple sacrifices, for He is the perfect King, Prophet, Saint, High Priest, temple, and sacrifice, and anything else He had to fulfill.

But Jesus did not fulfill the role of perfect King on earth, for He came as a humble servant, and it must be done on earth, which Jesus will fulfill the role of perfect King on earth during the millennial reign and then the law is completely fulfilled.

Then the saints will go to the New Jerusalem for the current heaven and earth will pass away.

Truth7t7 · Apr 22, 2021

MattforJesus said:

Isaiah 11 & Isaiah 65 represent the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Same Wolf, Lamb, Lion eating straw like the ox/bullock

The claim this represents a Millennial Kingdom on this Earth is (False)

The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth Below

Isaiah 11:6-7KJV
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

Isaiah 65:17-19 & 25KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 65:17-19 And Revelation 21:1-5 Are the same reading, describing the same place in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, The (Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Truth7t7 · Apr 22, 2021

MattforJesus said:

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The (Eternal Kingdom) "After" The Day Of The Lord In Fire And Final Judgement, The River Of Life Is Present

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

phil36 · Apr 22, 2021

Personally, I would fall into the Amillenial view.

I think the hermeneutic of dispensationalism has it wrong. What people seem to forget or not even know is that dispensationalism is a hermeneutic of reading the whole bible. In other words they read the bible through the lense of dispensational theology. And in fairness we all do that. Like I read the bible through a covenant lense ie, God deals with His people through Covenant, where as dispensationalists would say God deals with His people through various dispensations.

The big difference is in the covenant theology hermeneutic your not tied to one eschatological view point. In reformed circles there are Amillenials, premillenials and post millenials. (there is also New covenant theology)

For me the Amellenial view of eschatology holds sway. I was at the beginning of my walk a Dispy, I read all the left behind novels... and the Dallas seminary two volume commentaries... I didn't know any different at that time.

I know the difference between all the views now though.

I have to say most reformed who are premillenial are Historic premillenials and not Dispys. An example would be Charles Spurgeon he was what we call Historic premillenialist..

Truth7t7 · Apr 22, 2021

MattforJesus said:

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened "Once" (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Truth7t7 · Apr 22, 2021

phil36 said:

I agree

The bible clearly teaches the church will be present on earth to see the man of sin/antichrist revealed 2 Thess 2:3, and that Jesus Christ will return in the resurrection of all, and Catching up of believers, as the heavens and earth are dissolved by his fire in final judgement

Pretty hard to have a Millennial Kingdom on a earth that is gone

Thanks for the response

TheDivineWatermark · Apr 22, 2021

I dare say that everyone, in one way or another, believes in some measure of "dispensations"... if one does not believe we are still to be offering sacrifices on an altar, as of old...

Here's what ONE "old guy" (early person from church history) had to say on such a Subject:

Augustine wrote:

"Five ages of the world, accordingly, having been now completed (there has entered the sixth). Of these ages the first is from the beginning of the human race, that is, from Adam, who was the first man that was made, down to Noah, who constructed the ark at the time of the flood. Then the second extends from that period on to Abraham, who was called the father indeed of all nations which should follow the example of his faith, but who at the same time in the way of natural descent from his own flesh was the father of the destined people of the Jews [...]. [...] the third age extends from Abraham on to David the king; the fourth from David on to that captivity whereby the people of God passed over into Babylonia; and the fifth from that transmigration down to the advent of our Lord Jesus Christ. With His coming the sixth age has entered on its process; [...]"

--Augustin, "On the Catechising of the Uninstructed"... chapter 22, paragraph 39. From "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers," First Series, volume 3, Edited by Philip Schaff, D.D., LL.D.

[caveat: I do not agree with Augustine's ideas as expressed in his "City of God," 426ad (basically, Amillennialism

)... but just pointing out how "what he says here ^" (in the quote above ^ ) is VERY NEAR to what (many) "dispensationalists" say today

]

Blackpowderduelist · Apr 22, 2021

I think we may be in the time Satan is released to deceive again.

Truth7t7 · Apr 22, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

I dare say that everyone, in one way or another, believes in some measure of "dispensations"... if one does not believe we are still to be offering sacrifices on an altar, as of old...

Here's what ONE "old guy" (early person from church history) had to say on such a Subject:

Augustine wrote:

"Five ages of the world, accordingly, having been now completed (there has entered the sixth). Of these ages the first is from the beginning of the human race, that is, from Adam, who was the first man that was made, down to Noah, who constructed the ark at the time of the flood. Then the second extends from that period on to Abraham, who was called the father indeed of all nations which should follow the example of his faith, but who at the same time in the way of natural descent from his own flesh was the father of the destined people of the Jews [...]. [...] the third age extends from Abraham on to David the king; the fourth from David on to that captivity whereby the people of God passed over into Babylonia; and the fifth from that transmigration down to the advent of our Lord Jesus Christ. With His coming the sixth age has entered on its process; [...]"

--Augustin, "On the Catechising of the Uninstructed"... chapter 22, paragraph 39. From "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers," First Series, volume 3, Edited by Philip Schaff, D.D., LL.D.

[caveat: I do not agree with Augustine's ideas as expressed in his "City of God," 426ad (basically, Amillennialism

)... but just pointing out how "what he says here ^" (in the quote above ^ ) is VERY NEAR to what "dispensationalists" say today

]

Off Topic, Start Your Own Thread On Dispensations And Dispensationalism

Truth7t7 · Apr 22, 2021

Blackpowderduelist said:

I can't fully disagree, I dont believe satan ever stopped deceiving, you will closely note the topic of "Aliens" and "Extraterrestrial" beings is gaining momentum in the news lately, just to mention one?

There will be a point where Godwill send the delusion,that they should believe the lie

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12KJV
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

TheDivineWatermark · Apr 22, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Will desist...

I was just addressing your "these dispensational ideas," which you seemingly purport originated from Darby (late 1800s), is not exactly the case, as you suggest.

Carry on with your thread...

Pilgrimshope · Apr 23, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Yes but see it tells us who is on the resurrection just before

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see there that resurrection has happened and then in the end there is the second resurrection after the thousand years of both the righteous and wicked

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-12, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this resurrection those of the first have no part in this is the one we face , the final judgement the martyrs and saints are already in the kingdom already have been resurrected so the second has no part with them they can’t be placed in the lake of fire they already died and rose from death .

They reign 1000 years ( whatever measure of time that represents on earth ) in the kingdom in sion in heaven but while they are reigning earth is in the opposite state

I would say the reign began here right after Jesus was taken to the throne

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:

for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬

my view is the reign of the saints is in heaven and already occurring again for however long it happens I don’t know . But I believe they are already in the kingdom with Christ serving in the temple and that’s what the thousand year reign is about those who are in the kingdom from when Christ was seated until he returns

those who reign in the heavenly Zion with him during this span of time

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe that’s the time frame for the reign in heaven and the second resurrection is the last one. I think the order is made known regarding the first fruits they wouldn’t be resurrected at the end but before

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. ( past tense )

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits;

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20, 22-23‬ ‭

There are two resurrections mentioned the first one removes them from the second and they reign with Christ before the second . It’s the saints and martyrs ot saints and early martyrs who are celebrating in the kingdom and who rose after Jesus the bodies of many holy saints that rose , they are also resurrected already being part of the first resurrection and not having to wait until the last day when both the righteous and wicked will rose together for judgement

There’s the first resurrection or believers

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Or the second in the end

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24, 28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we don’t have to be judged in the end we can accept judgement now and live when our body dies we can go on to the lords kingdom to await the restoration of our body in the end

the second resurrection is for those who didn’t respond and repent they are going to be judged according to thier work d not according to the mercy of the gospel they rejected which is the book of life

Truth7t7 · Apr 23, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Yes but see it tells us who is on the resurrection just before

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see there that resurrection has happened and then in the end there is the second resurrection after the thousand years of both the righteous and wicked

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-12, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this resurrection those of the first have no part in this is the one we face , the final judgement the martyrs and saints are already in the kingdom already have been resurrected so the second has no part with them they can’t be placed in the lake of fire they already died and rose from death .

They reign 1000 years ( whatever measure of time that represents on earth ) in the kingdom in sion in heaven but while they are reigning earth is in the opposite state

I would say the reign began here right after Jesus was taken to the throne

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:

for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬

my view is the reign of the saints is in heaven and already occurring again for however long it happens I don’t know . But I believe they are already in the kingdom with Christ serving in the temple and that’s what the thousand year reign is about those who are in the kingdom from when Christ was seated until he returns

those who reign in the heavenly Zion with him during this span of time

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe that’s the time frame for the reign in heaven and the second resurrection is the last one. I think the order is made known regarding the first fruits they wouldn’t be resurrected at the end but before

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. ( past tense )

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits;

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20, 22-23‬ ‭

There are two resurrections mentioned the first one removes them from the second and they reign with Christ before the second . It’s the saints and martyrs ot saints and early martyrs who are celebrating in the kingdom and who rose after Jesus the bodies of many holy saints that rose , they are also resurrected already being part of the first resurrection and not having to wait until the last day when both the righteous and wicked will rose together for judgement

There’s the first resurrection or believers

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Or the second in the end

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24, 28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we don’t have to be judged in the end we can accept judgement now and live when our body dies we can go on to the lords kingdom to await the restoration of our body in the end

the second resurrection is for those who didn’t respond and repent they are going to be judged according to thier work d not according to the mercy of the gospel they rejected which is the book of life

I believe scripture clearly teaches all that have lived will take part in the (Last Day) resurrection

You suggest the tribulation saints are resurrected before the (Last Day) resurrection, I disagree

Jesus Christ taught that the believer would be resurrected on the (Last Day) John 6:39-40

Jesus Christ also taught this (Last Day) was at the final judgement John 12:48

Many get confused on the words (First Resurrection) which is doing nothing more than explaining John 5:28-29 where (Two) resurrections are seen, the righteous (First) to eternal life, the wicked (Second) to eternal damnation in the Lake Of Fire, the (Second) death

As Jesus Christ clearly taught below, all in the graves will hear his voice and come forth, including believers that will be resurrected on the (Last Day) and this (Last Day) is the time of (Final Judgement)

Thanks for the response

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Truth7t7 · Apr 23, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Yes but see it tells us who is on the resurrection just before

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see there that resurrection has happened and then in the end there is the second resurrection after the thousand years of both the righteous and wicked

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-12, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this resurrection those of the first have no part in this is the one we face , the final judgement the martyrs and saints are already in the kingdom already have been resurrected so the second has no part with them they can’t be placed in the lake of fire they already died and rose from death .

They reign 1000 years ( whatever measure of time that represents on earth ) in the kingdom in sion in heaven but while they are reigning earth is in the opposite state

I would say the reign began here right after Jesus was taken to the throne

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:

for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬

my view is the reign of the saints is in heaven and already occurring again for however long it happens I don’t know . But I believe they are already in the kingdom with Christ serving in the temple and that’s what the thousand year reign is about those who are in the kingdom from when Christ was seated until he returns

those who reign in the heavenly Zion with him during this span of time

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe that’s the time frame for the reign in heaven and the second resurrection is the last one. I think the order is made known regarding the first fruits they wouldn’t be resurrected at the end but before

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. ( past tense )

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits;

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20, 22-23‬ ‭

There are two resurrections mentioned the first one removes them from the second and they reign with Christ before the second . It’s the saints and martyrs ot saints and early martyrs who are celebrating in the kingdom and who rose after Jesus the bodies of many holy saints that rose , they are also resurrected already being part of the first resurrection and not having to wait until the last day when both the righteous and wicked will rose together for judgement

There’s the first resurrection or believers

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Or the second in the end

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24, 28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we don’t have to be judged in the end we can accept judgement now and live when our body dies we can go on to the lords kingdom to await the restoration of our body in the end

the second resurrection is for those who didn’t respond and repent they are going to be judged according to thier work d not according to the mercy of the gospel they rejected which is the book of life

Just adding to my previous post above, Daniel also saw the resurrection at the time of Final judgement (Last Day) as he clearly sees the books are opened Revelation 20:11-15,

Daniel's account is in perfect agreement with my post above, and shows that the timing is at the Final Great White Throne Judgement, when the book of life is open.

Daniels account is a parallel teaching of John 5:28-29 giving additional info

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

lamad · Apr 23, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) No Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) No Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) No Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Let's see: "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them..."

While the church is judging during the Millennial reign, what could God give YOU to do? Since you don't believe in this, God will probably give you something else to do. Can you play a harp? Float on a cloud? Perhaps count the stars! Time will tell. I'll try and look you up then and see what God has given you to do.

Pilgrimshope · Apr 23, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

who is the group of saints resurrected bodily in Matthew after Jesus ?

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

that’s for those who reject the gospel brother but this is for those who accept and believe thy gospel the first resurrection

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s based on the gospel sent into the world accepting or rejecting he’s explained two resurrections one is present and another is to come

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming,

and now is,

when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25‬ ‭

Now is , and then he speaks of the time that’s coming in the end when both the righteous and wicked will be raised together in one resurrection and then be judged at his throne both the good and evil of all nations resurrected and then he will divide them righteous from wicked and reward both thier reward

this is for those who are in thier graves that rejected the gospel

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

see brother that’s not the gospel our sins are remitted we pased from death into life because we heard and believed the gospel and our sins were washed away

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:11‬ ‭

“And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those aren’t the ones being raised out of thier graves bro their in the kingdom there’s a judgement if we receive the gospel and one of we don’t one means life the other certain death

Thank you also for the conversation brother if you look closely at the whole section of John 5 Jesus is explaining two resurrections one present and one in the future based upon those who accept and believe the gospel his word ,

and those who reject it the dead those who remain in death until jidgement day

“

the one he says the hour is coming is this one for the dead , not for those who were brought from death to life already torough the gospel but for the yet dead who rejected his words he says are eternal life

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:

and another book was opened, which is the book of life:

and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the first resurrection brother that group is not among the dead in their graves they took part in the first resurrection they passed from deaths grasp on thier soul into eternal Life and the kingdom

Those inhabiting heaven were those who accepted the goepel on earth past present or future until creation is reconciled and earth is restored

Nehemiah6 · Apr 23, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

That is incorrect. There is one resurrection for the just, another for the unjust. And unless you take all of Scripture and interpret it properly you will be mistaken. While Christ simply summarized the matter and even called a huge period of time "a day", we know that that "day" is actually more than 1,000 years long. The Lord would leave it to His apostles and prophets to fill in the blanks.

pablocito · Apr 23, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

who is the group of saints resurrected bodily in Matthew after Jesus ?

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

that’s for those who reject the gospel brother but this is for those who accept and believe thy gospel the first resurrection

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s based on the gospel sent into the world accepting or rejecting he’s explained two resurrections one is present and another is to come

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming,

and now is,

when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25‬ ‭

Now is , and then he speaks of the time that’s coming in the end when both the righteous and wicked will be raised together in one resurrection and then be judged at his throne both the good and evil of all nations resurrected and then he will divide them righteous from wicked and reward both thier reward

this is for those who are in thier graves that rejected the gospel

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

see brother that’s not the gospel our sins are remitted we pased from death into life because we heard and believed the gospel and our sins were washed away

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:11‬ ‭

“And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭15:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those aren’t the ones being raised out of thier graves bro their in the kingdom there’s a judgement if we receive the gospel and one of we don’t one means life the other certain death

Thank you also for the conversation brother if you look closely at the whole section of John 5 Jesus is explaining two resurrections one present and one in the future based upon those who accept and believe the gospel his word ,

and those who reject it the dead those who remain in death until jidgement day

“

the one he says the hour is coming is this one for the dead , not for those who were brought from death to life already torough the gospel but for the yet dead who rejected his words he says are eternal life

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:

and another book was opened, which is the book of life:

and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the first resurrection brother that group is not among the dead in their graves they took part in the first resurrection they passed from deaths grasp on thier soul into eternal Life and the kingdom

Those inhabiting heaven were those who accepted the goepel on earth past present or future until creation is reconciled and earth is restored

I am not sure how you came by a resurrection in the first century using scripture verses.

Well, I have only been serving God for 3 years and I came to the same conclusion not from putting bible verses together but somehow from understanding scripture generally.

Most of my understanding of the bible comes from revelation and not from studying specific sections of the scriptures. But somehow later on, I have confirmed everything that I got from revelation from studying scripture passages that came into my field of study.

I do not believe in any new prophecy but I have come to believe that the Holy Spirit works in ways that are beyond our understanding.

What exactly is your understanding of the days that we are presently living in. Do you believe that it is possible that no one in these days can become saved. In other words, the grace of God is finished and His Spirit is no longer striving with men? Is this a possibility.

pottersclay · Apr 24, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Why do you persist in your false teaching and blindness????

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The Lord of hosts is His name): “If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the Lord, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever.” Thus says the Lord: “If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the Lord. “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that the city shall be built for the Lord from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. The surveyor’s line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the Lord. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever.”

This has not happened yet. Notice the days are plural not singular.

There Will Be No Future Millennium On This Earth, A False Teaching Of Man

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