The Two Witnesses Were Already Here

presidente · Sep 17, 2013

I think I might have met three of the two witnesses in Internet conversation, if they are right about their own identities.

SpiritofFire · Sep 17, 2013

There are only two witnesses. True and false. Both having power by God. Their testimony is left to us who remain because both are in the grave.

RachelBibleStudent · Sep 17, 2013

GreatisHisGlory said:

and now you have likewise endorsed this heretical teaching yourself...you have been good at hiding your real beliefs in order to avoid discrediting yourself...but you have finally made a big mistake...

it is like i have said before...black israelism is a doctrinal cesspool...overflowing with heresies and false doctrines...

a bad tree produces bad fruit...

GreatisHisGlory · Sep 17, 2013

RachelBibleStudent said:

Can you explain Corinthians 11:3? "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." Can you explain what it meant by saying, the head Christ is God? From what I understand the verse is showing an "order" maybe I am wrong. But what does it mean then, saying God is the head of Christ?

RachelBibleStudent · Sep 17, 2013

GreatisHisGlory said:

new testament writers...especially paul...often followed the convention of referring to the father by the term 'God'...'theos' in greek...corresponding to the old testament divine name 'elohim'...and referring to jesus christ the son by the term 'lord'...'kurios' in greek...corresponding to the old testament divine names 'yahweh' and especially 'adonai'

so paul's intent is not to make any distinction between christ and God...his intent is to point out that the father is the head of christ...christ is perfectly obedient to the father...it is not to show that one is above the other in divinity...

Cobus · Sep 19, 2013

Well Well... Jesus prayed in John 17... Farher the hour hath cometh, the work is finished, GLORIFY THOU ME WITH THINE OWN SELF, WITH THE GLORY I HAD BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

Please do not misundertand this.... Jesus as MAN was not JESUS as HE WAS BEFORE THE WORLD WAS... Jesus as man that was with us was GOD WITH US, but not as GLORIOUS as GOD IS ALL THE TIME. Jesus came with a glory, but NOT HIS FULL GLORY. It is VERY easy to understand if you read about Jesus how the fashion of His countanance changed, when Moses and Elias appeard with Him on the mountain. The glory SHONE in Jesus. Even his clothes was white and glistening.... The light of GLORY so bright, NO MAN CAN LAY EYES ON HIM! Also when MAry wanted to touch Him after He has risen.... He said TOUCH ME NOT....

God in flesh, is still God, but not as glorious as in heaven. Still perfect and without sin, but not as glorious as the IMMORTAL state! Jesus is what God loks like in flesh. And so does ALL His Children.... they look as glorious as Jesus in flesh. Even the children of God will get MORE GLORY for their immortal state, but not to the LEVEL as Jesus in after-life....

Holiness is only ONE DEGREE, but GLORY has more degrees!

Trax · Sep 20, 2013

GreatisHisGlory said:

Yes, they will be two witnesses. By God's own law, He requires at least two witnesses to
a crime, before judgement can be executed. The Lord sent two angels to Soddom, which
got Lot out. Only one angel could have done the job. Before the Levitical law was given,
God showed a pattern, by sending two. These two witnesses will announce to the world,
its sin and the judgement that is coming, in advance, so when it happens, the people
will know the reason why.

albert_mascheroni · Oct 5, 2014

albert_mascheroni · Oct 5, 2014

[FONT=&quot]The two witnesses are a man and a woman. Literal Greek Translation Rev. 8:11 uses the word “body” (singular) Rev. 11:5 reads “mouth” (singular). “8 and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one.” Mark 10:8.[/FONT]

Sola_Scriptura · Oct 5, 2014

The common misconception is that of the 2 Witnesses of Revelation 11 being 2 actual people to come in the future. This theory does not line up with the context of the chapter, nor with the history derived from that context. When all of the Scripture in that chapter is looked at, allowing other verses to interpret the Bible itself, and looking at past history, the answer becomes clear as to who these 2 really are. Prayerfully review the link below, which has done a fabulous job of exegesis.

http://www.bibelschule.info/streami...-The-Two-Witnesses-of-Revelation-11_24021.pdf

God Bless

birdie · Oct 6, 2014

Revelation 11 starts by saying to go and measure the temple of God. That just means take note of and keep the true believers. They are the temple of God. Then it says to leave out the unsaved, who it says will trample on the holy city. In other words, the unsaved will have sway in the congregations, and the true believers will not have sway there. The Holy Spirit will be taken away from the congregations that have existed during the church age. It will be a time of tribulation. The true believers will share the gospel (that is what is meant by the two witnesses prophesying). Two is just a figurative number like so many many many other numbers in the Bible, which operates in parable language. There are more true believers than just two persons. If anyone disagrees with their gospel, then naturally those persons are under judgement and unsaved. That is the parable language of fire coming out of the mouths of the true believers. Verse 6 emphasizes that the unsaved left in the congregations will find that the gospel merely has judgement for them (waters to blood is figurative language meaning the gospel is judgement to them since they have not believed the truth). Egypt and its plagues were pictures of this spiritually unsaved condition as the tribulation period progresses. Darkness, meaning the lack of the light of Christ, is present in the congregations. The beast that ascends out of the pit is Satan and because he has sway in the congregations, the figurative streets of the gospel or the correct way to walk spiritually does not exist in the congregations. That is why to those in the congregations the true believers real gospel is not heard. The true believers are effectively dead to them in the spiritual sense. Sodom and Egypt both provide spiritual pictures of the fall of the congregations of the church age, the same event. So does the fall of the walls of Jericho for that matter, and the fall of Babylon. Anyway, after a period of time when there is not anyone new being added to the ranks of believers (silence in heaven), God will give a spiritual victory to the true believers, people will be able to hear the true gospel and rewards will be, etc. The temple of God will be open in heaven, meaning the true believers will be able to see and hear spiritually, the ark of his testament will be there, meaning God's covenant with all true believers will be lasting in Jesus.

Mem · Oct 6, 2014

I learned of a theory of the two witness that gave me pause to note it and look into it later. Although I have not had the opportunity to think it through and reading through this thread has brought it up afresh and I am even more compelled to consider it further as it came to mind whether there may be significance that the word for witness and testimony are quite similar if not identical. I looked it up and some translation use one while another will use the other. So, could it be that these two witnesses, ever before the Lord, are the two testimonies, one one this side of Christ and the other on that side, or rather the OT and the NT.
As I said, I haven't had time to consider in depth whether there is merit to this idea but I can see it's possibility.

Sola_Scriptura · Oct 6, 2014

Mem said:

I posted a link to a .pdf in my last post. It isn't just some thought or theory. The guy did a beautiful and thorough breakdown of each part, using the Bible itself to interpret, which is the way it is supposed to be. Here is another link which reveals the same thing. Precept must be upon precept, line upon line. The LORD is marvelous.

http://www.revelationbibleprophecy.org/revelation11.html (check out the rest of Revelation while you are at it)

God Bless

albert_mascheroni · Oct 6, 2014

Stop the theories. They are two actual people, man and woman and they are already here. Your theorizing is leading people astray. My only question to you is if you are intentionally doing so because you know we are in fact in the end times, or if you are genuinely questioning. Given you posted shortly after my post and added a link even to establish false credibility, I am inclined to believe you are leading people astray. Refrain from doing so. https://www.facebook.com/al.masch.50

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1 John 4:1

albert_mascheroni · Oct 6, 2014

They lied.

birdie · Oct 6, 2014

For those who feel that the two witnesses are two persons only, it might be good to look at the 10 virgins in Matthew 25. I should think it would be easy to understand that more than 5 persons are actually being saved when the bridgegroom (Christ) returns and more than 5 persons are unsaved as well. The Bible simply uses parable language to describe all true believers as 5 persons, when the actual number is much larger surely. Similarly, the book of Revelation makes abundant use of parable language as does the rest of the Bible.

Sola_Scriptura · Oct 6, 2014

albert_mascheroni said:

Did you even investigate why I shared that information, or did you just glance and respond with lack of understanding? First off, that link you posted has no Scripture whatsoever and seems to be based off an experience, which is a shifting sand foundation. Secondly, as you said, we ARE to try (test) the spirits. How do we do this? Compare all things with the Bible, which is the only solid foundation.

God Bless

albert_mascheroni · Oct 6, 2014

I assert and assure you that what I have said is true and valid. Believe me.

albert_mascheroni · Oct 6, 2014

Sola_Scriptura said:

Call it providence. What I say is the truth. Please follow me on facebook so you are not in the dark about the times. Whatever you find relevant please share with others. https://www.facebook.com/al.masch.50 "...Freely you have received; freely give." Matthew 10:8

crossnote · Oct 6, 2014

Just read the text without 'spiritualizing' it. Two people, most like Jews, who prophecy, are killed, their bodies lie in the street in Jerusalem 3 1/2 days before they are raised to heaven.

Revelation 11:3-12 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The Two Witnesses Were Already Here

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