S
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It is so important that a teacher tell those how to do the what to do that the scripture ask of us to do, so they will not becoming a transgressor by attempting to do what the scriptures say do in their on ability. Gal. 2:18, Zechariah 4:6
(The letter of the law)
Let me repeat. The Church is the child of God, not the building. We tithe ONLY in good ground. Good ground is ONLY when the Pastor points every jot and tittle of the Word of God to Calvary. If the Pastor is not doing this, Faith will not come, flesh comes! Faith will not work outside of the Righteousness of God (Jesus Christ and Him Crucified). Faith is dead if it is not working (John 14:21, James 2:14-26). There will be a curse of scarcity and barrenness if you will not tithe into good ground.
Tithing is for those under the Law, not for those under the blood of Jesus Christ. There is nothing in Scripture to suggest that anyone "tithes into the ground". That's silly; those under the Law were to take their tithe to the tabernacle or temple. You have things really mixed up.
If it’s not tithing and it’s not, maybe they could restructure the whole donation system. Perhaps they could take up the collection at the end of service, like a restaurant. Have a flat rate based on fixed costs divided by members who attend. Then if you enjoyed the message, and the singing was particularly inspiring you can tip. It will get divided among those who contributed to the service. That should eliminate the confusion.
T
TheIndianGirl
Guest
Where does it say in the Bible that the tithe (or otherwise an offering) should be given to the local church? How does storehouse translate into local church?
My church overall is improving financially and doing better this year. So, I'm thinking of giving a bit less to the church next year and more to another Christian organization. Is this anti-Biblical? I have asked another pastor about this before and he did not take my question kindly; he said give 10% to church and anything more I can give elsewhere.
My church overall is improving financially and doing better this year. So, I'm thinking of giving a bit less to the church next year and more to another Christian organization. Is this anti-Biblical? I have asked another pastor about this before and he did not take my question kindly; he said give 10% to church and anything more I can give elsewhere.
I do not agree, especially with last statement.
We haven't 'tithed' to a congregation for years. We remain generous to those in need as we encounter them. I will not say anymore as our works is between us and God.
A couple of weeks ago whilst at the bank sorting out some financial matters. The banker was shocked as to how our accounts looked so healthy given our current financial situation... And it's all thanks God, no curse of barrenous here, what kind of good Father would curse their own child!
S
Scribe
Guest
1 Cor 16:1 is a good verse for giving us an idea of how it was already a practice of meeting on the first day of the week and taking up an collection "in proportion as God had prospered them" Now we can assume it was 10% proportion because that is something they would have been familiar with. We might imagine it to be 5% or 20% but it is not likely. It is most likely that it was 10% that they would have considered a proportion in accordance with how God had prospered them that week.
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
It is a good rule and has been used in the church all these centuries and works well if people will do it. Now what you should know is that very few are regular tithers. A small percentage of people regularly tithe and these are the ones carrying the church. Most put in a dollar or two and think that others will make up the difference. Your regular tithe is super important to making things work out. And because very few do it, your's is even more important than you every knew.
While the response from the pastor was typical, it is unfortunate that it was not biblically sound.
The offering and the tithe are not the same thing; they are distinct under the old covenant. There isn't a single verse of Scripture anywhere that teaches Christians to "tithe". Under the Law, tithing was not optional and it was not given in money! The "storehouse" was quite literally a storehouse where grain (the tithe of the fields) was stored until needed. There is no new testament equivalent, despite some desperate claims that the local church is the storehouse (it isn't).
There is no mandated amount or percentage under the new covenant. However, there are instructions given in the new testament for giving: as you have purposed in your heart; for the needy; for the work of the gospel/ministry; regularly; as God has prospered you; generously, and occasionally sacrificially.
Give as you see fit. I would suggest that you continue to give some to your local church, some to local needs, and some to evangelistic ministries.
S
Scribe
Guest
Giving more than 10% would also be a good way to show you are not being legalistic.
I have come across that reasoning before. At its core, it's no less legalistic. Until you remove any sense of "mandatory" or "percentage", you're keeping one foot in the law.
S
Scribe
Guest
Not to argue, but a proportion according to how God prospered you sounds a lot like a percentage to me. It is a logical method why not 10%?I have come across that reasoning before. At its core, it's no less legalistic. Until you remove any sense of "mandatory" or "percentage", you're keeping one foot in the law.
I would not press it as a hard fast rule but as a guide. If you want to come up with a financial budget that includes giving to the church using it seems like a good guide and a method for us to all get into agreement so we can have a plan.
It allows for your church to budget as well. All of this can be done in the spirit of unity and cooperation without it being a "law" or a salvation issue.
First of all get involved in a church that is advancing the Kingdom of God through outreaches and soul winning. Then support that effort with your proportion as God has prospered you. Be consistent. Do it in faith. God knows your heart.
Generally, I agree. The only thing I would challenge is "Why not 10%?" With exactly the same force of logic, why not 3%, or 7.8%, or 20%?
The problem with any percentage is that it is personal, situation-specific, and easily become legalism. Far too many Christians feel pressured, even subtly, to support their church while their personal financial situation suddenly goes from black to red. Far too many live on KD and popcorn and think they are doing what is required of them. While a few do, far too few churches support their members' financial needs when things go awry.
B
Blackpowderduelist
Guest
Of course he didn't take it lightly. Lol. He is in church business.
Read what the law of the tithe is. It was never money. And you were supposed to eat it, you and your household, before the Lord where he put his name.
Also remember Jesus praised the widow who gave into the alms (charity box) but sent Peter fishing for agreeing to pay the temple tax.
So while the local congregation needs money to pay the bills, and pastors need money to pay their bills. What these modern pastors are teaching is an indulgence. They misuse scripture to get you to buy an indulgence.
B
Blackpowderduelist
Guest
If you don't believe it is the selling of indulgence just read this mess.
The good ground here come from Jesus talking about the word as seed and the heart of a person being ground.
Also notice how the scriptures referenced have nothing to do with tithing. Or paying a ministry
Note how it's misappropriated to impose a curse that is on you that you can buy off with money.
The good ground here come from Jesus talking about the word as seed and the heart of a person being ground.
Also notice how the scriptures referenced have nothing to do with tithing. Or paying a ministry
Note how it's misappropriated to impose a curse that is on you that you can buy off with money.
B
Blackpowderduelist
Guest
How God has prospered you would be over and above cost/ie what you need. You don't prosper if you don't profit.
It was a tenth in the past for the same reason a tenth part of the city fell in Rev 11:13. Ten symbolizes righteousness, the congregation was to give righteousness back to God's house, and the righteousness of the godless city was fallen. "Give unto God what is God's" means righteousness, not a money amount, it only foreshadowed what was to come, and crops given to the Levites symbolized that, the fruit of the Spirit. People giving a literal 10th of their income as a rule now are being lied to, the whole point was making us a cheerful giver so we don't covet or be greedy, but instead give gladly what is right and appropriate to help others. And there are other resources besides money that we can use to help others but these churches aren't interested they're only about cash. Being this is giving the real "tenth" that God wanted off the start.
T
TheIndianGirl
Guest
Pastors/people who tithe try to make you feel guilty if you do give 10%, such as saying you are "cheating God." I have heard that a handful of times. I think many people tithe/give 10% out of fear/guilt. I do think approx. 10% is a good guide for many people though.
What bothers me slightly is that the 10% is too legalistic (giving the 10% is like marking a checkbox). What bothers me most right now is that many churches have become quasi-political organizations, so people become less thrilled about giving if they are not on the same side (since it also feels like one is supporting a political agenda). I'm not saying that the quasi political nature is overt, but can be very subtle (a statement here and there once in awhile). Overall, I believe the church environment has become too political; I can understand why a person on either side of the aisle would not want to go to church or tithe. Or maybe it's just me, as I pick up on political innuendos easily. Sometimes it not just the pastor, it can be because of the other congregants. People believe that politics defines the "model Christian."
What bothers me slightly is that the 10% is too legalistic (giving the 10% is like marking a checkbox). What bothers me most right now is that many churches have become quasi-political organizations, so people become less thrilled about giving if they are not on the same side (since it also feels like one is supporting a political agenda). I'm not saying that the quasi political nature is overt, but can be very subtle (a statement here and there once in awhile). Overall, I believe the church environment has become too political; I can understand why a person on either side of the aisle would not want to go to church or tithe. Or maybe it's just me, as I pick up on political innuendos easily. Sometimes it not just the pastor, it can be because of the other congregants. People believe that politics defines the "model Christian."
S
Scribe
Guest
I understand why someone would feel that way.
I am not sure if it can be defined exactly.
I like the idea of giving a proportion to the work of the Kingdom (support of the church) according to the income received before spending it on anything else even food.
But that is where my faith and conscience is at. I can't really tell people what to do. It has to be faith and a cheerful heart. I think that is why tithe is not mentioned in the New Testament or any amount. Peter telling Ananias and Saphira that it was theirs to do with what they wanted is a clear instruction that we are not told how much to give. They could have given only part if they wanted to but their lying about it was the sin.
In response to the OP if the pastor had said, "you can give whatever you want, in faith and a cheerful heart, but if everyone would plan on 10% and be consistent the church can plan on various outreach ministries to reach the lost in our community and missions to reach the lost world wide and we can budget accordingly." It might be more effective in getting people to get on board with that rather than trying to argue about it being a New Testament law which it is not.
B