The Secrets of Infallibility

[Ugly]

I am neither aiding him in his deception, nor misrepresenting my beliefs. Do you think the way that you're speaking to him will change him, or help him (if you so think he is in deception)? "What a joke" indeed, if you think this line of reasoning and method will help. Why would you seek to crush the man instead of help him up? "You've been exposed and lost credibility", and "what a joke" are not words that are aimed to reveal the truth to a person you believe to be in deception, but to receive applause from the audience.

You say he has avoided your question, and I would strongly beg to differ. Re-read his posts. He is walking by faith, and while he may yet fail in the natural he hopes to stay true to God's word, and desires God's sanctification. He already told you that he will not let circumstance define him but God's word. So instead of looking to where he falls short, he holds to God's word that calls him to holiness.

You can deduce this from what he has written.

I get it, having debated sinless perfectionists, and those who subscribe to Legalism, we often just come out swinging. We want to make our case, and win. The question, however, is who are we trying to convince? If it is our "opponent", then we should watch our words lest we offend them and shut them up from the truth.

I never said anything about correcting him. I asked a simple question and he could not provide a simple answer. The end.
Why you are failing to grasp this is beyond me. It is, after all, simple. But in true BDF form it has to be complicated and intentions accused and assumed instead of seeing things for what they are and not adding to it.
I asked a plain question, he did not provide a plain answer. The end.

 

[BenFTW]

Well then if it is possible then i challenge you to come forward and claim that you have achieved a sinless life.. That you have conquered sin in the flesh...

Now if you claim that you can but you cannot come forward and claim you have then whats your excuse for failing to achieve something you declare you have the keys to achieve???

I challenge anyone to come forward and make the claim they have achieved a sinless life... But if you do then i will know you are a liar and thus you will be sinning if you ever do..

Just maybe the extent to which you believe yourself to be bound, you are. Listen Adstar, I am not supporting "the sinlessness in the flesh preachers." I saw an OP (first post of the thread) that attempted to share with believers tools to help them along their walk, that would permit them to not stumble. It is a good teaching, in that respect (I don't agree with one aspect of it, but thats neither here nor there).

Then a person comes in instantly addressing sinless perfectionism, instead of adding to the conversation that emekrus started. Specifically about tools, or keys, to infallibility. Surely you can appreciate, at the very least, the premise and heart behind such a teaching. To encourage believers.

I don't understand, sometimes, the need of us to combat sinless perfectionism to the degree that we would consider ourselves still under the dominion of sin. Sin is a choice. One that we sometimes make. Yet, are we bound to sin? Must we sin? Or, rather is it that we choose to sin through ignorance? How can we read God's word and not come away with a glimmer of hope that God will continue to sanctify and chastise us towards righteousness and holiness?

I've asked this before. How long can a Christian go without sinning? A day? A month? A year? The time really isn't the point, but rather the possibility. If possible, how then is it achievable? Read Romans 6, and tell me how you can come away from that and say, "I must sin."

Its not that I agree with everything emekrus is teaching, such as apostasy, or any such need to walk in righteousness for salvation (if indeed that is his angle). I just find the onslaught of aggression towards him as unnecessary, and maybe a little more compassion is in order. I stood beside him, not because I agree with him entirely, but because those that I usually stand with are not seeing the person behind the words. You may disagree with his ideals, but God still calls you to love, and correct him gently, with meekness.

I gain nothing from defending him, and to be honest I don't know why I am because I strongly disagree with certain things he teaches. Yet, for some reason, here I find myself. Maybe it is to cause others to reflect upon their actions and words, to consider his desire admirable if not just slightly naive. However we look at it, even if we don't believe that we can be sinless, we all agree that we should sin less. Right? Well, what does the OP attempt to share with others? Keys to doing just that. To know that we have been purged from our old sins.

The condemnation that accompanies sinless perfectionism ought to be directly addressed, and denied, refuted, and put in its place. I completely agree. Yet we should also encourage righteous living, holiness, and love. In this discussion sometimes it feels like people are defending their sin, or justifying it, instead of seeing how God can set them free from it (or has).

 

[emekrus]

If a person could stop sinning but chose not to do it then they must love their sinning and those that love evil are doomed...

If you can endevour to cease sinning and you don't then stop supporting the sinlessness in the flesh preachers who have not endevoured to stop sinning themselves..

Now let me give you a straight answer. By the grace of God, "I am a master over sin". By God's grace, through his scriptural revelations, I now have total dominion over the habitual sins I struggled with before now.

Now my mastery over habitual sin, doesn't mean I haven't erred at times and be convicted by the Holy Spirit. But once that happened I quickly ask and receive forgiveness by faith and repent...

The difference however is that I don't persist in habitual sin...

After repentance, I quickly get back to the right track of faith, confessing to myself "I shall never fall", "Sin shall never have dominion over me, cos I am under grace not under law". I also declare one of my favourite scriptures "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from the Law of sin and death", "I am born of God, so I cannot sin,".

As temptations come my way, I declare all those scriptures continually in faith and I never fail to get the victory by the grace of God.

And this is what mastery is all about; and this sermon here, is not in anyway teaching sinless perfection, but rather, "Mastery Over Sin". Cos that's what God has provided for us in his word.

Now let me paint you a picture of mastery:

When my little Son (Enoch) was learning how to walk, he always took a few steps and fell back to creeping: then he was only trying or struggling to walk (just like many believers try and struggle with sin today) . But immediately he mastered walking, he always walks perfectly, but falls once in a while and immediately he does that, he quickly gets up and start walking again. And that's the portion of every master...

Masters err once in a while, but regardless, they are still masters and champions.

But the big difference is that wannabes always err and are dominated by errors. While the masters on the other hand, seldom err and dominate errors.

Accepting God's word for exactly what it says, regardless of our experiences, confers mastery. And the more and more we believe and proclaim it, we get closer and closer and closer and even more closer to the exact reality of what it says. and this is why the Bible tells us in the book of Proverbs that the path of the just is as a shining light that shines more and more unto the perfect day.

Bless you.

 

[tourist]

Now let me give you a straight answer. By the grace of God, "I am a master over sin". By God's grace, through his scriptural revelations, I now have total dominion over the habitual sins I struggled with before now.

Now my mastery over habitual sin, doesn't mean I haven't erred at times and be convicted by the Holy Spirit. But once that happened I quickly ask and receive forgiveness by faith and repent...

The difference however is that I don't persist in habitual sin...

After repentance, I quickly get back to the right track of faith, confessing to myself "I shall never fall", "Sin shall never have dominion over me, cos I am under grace not under law". I also declare one of my favourite scriptures "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from the Law of sin and death", "I am born of God, so I cannot sin,".

As temptations come my way, I declare all those scriptures continually in faith and I never fail to get the victory by the grace of God.

And this is what mastery is all about; and this sermon here, is not in anyway teaching sinless perfection, but rather, "Mastery Over Sin". Cos that's what God has provided for us in his word.

Now let me paint you a picture of mastery:

When my little Son (Enoch) was learning how to walk, he always took a few steps and fell back to creeping: then he was only trying or struggling to walk (just like many believers try and struggle with sin today) . But immediately he mastered walking, he always walks perfectly, but falls once in a while and immediately he does that, he quickly gets up and start walking again. And that's the portion of every master...

Masters err once in a while, but regardless, they are still masters and champions.

But the big difference is that wannabes always err and are dominated by errors. While the masters on the other hand, seldom err and dominate errors.

Accepting God's word for exactly what it says, regardless of our experiences, confers mastery. And the more and more we believe and proclaim it, we get closer and closer and closer and even more closer to the exact reality of what it says. and this is why the Bible tells us in the book of Proverbs that the path of the just is as a shining light that shines more and more unto the perfect day.

Bless you.

Based on your post history I would have to say that you are on the right spiritual track.

 

[BenFTW]

I never said anything about correcting him. I asked a simple question and he could not provide a simple answer. The end.
Why you are failing to grasp this is beyond me. It is, after all, simple. But in true BDF form it has to be complicated and intentions accused and assumed instead of seeing things for what they are and not adding to it.
I asked a plain question, he did not provide a plain answer. The end.

Its all good. While he may not have answered as forthright as you would've liked, I still think he did answer it. The answer is yes, he does. Only in the way he described it, he wanted to make it clear that he is walking in faith, not letting his circumstance define him, and instead relying on God's word for the victory.

 

[BenFTW]

Now let me give you a straight answer. By the grace of God, "I am a master over sin". By God's grace, through his scriptural revelations, I now have total dominion over the habitual sins I struggled with before now.

Now my mastery over habitual sin, doesn't mean I haven't erred at times and be convicted by the Holy Spirit. But once that happened I quickly ask and receive forgiveness by faith and repent...

The difference however is that I don't persist in habitual sin...

After repentance, I quickly get back to the right track of faith, confessing to myself "I shall never fall", "Sin shall never have dominion over me, cos I am under grace not under law". I also declare one of my favourite scriptures "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from the Law of sin and death", "I am born of God, so I cannot sin,".

As temptations come my way, I declare all those scriptures continually in faith and I never fail to get the victory by the grace of God.

And this is what mastery is all about; and this sermon here, is not in anyway teaching sinless perfection, but rather, "Mastery Over Sin". Cos that's what God has provided for us in his word.

Now let me paint you a picture of mastery:

When my little Son (Enoch) was learning how to walk, he always took a few steps and fell back to creeping: then he was only trying or struggling to walk (just like many believers try and struggle with sin today) . But immediately he mastered walking, he always walks perfectly, but falls once in a while and immediately he does that, he quickly gets up and start walking again. And that's the portion of every master...

Masters err once in a while, but regardless, they are still masters and champions.

But the big difference is that wannabes always err and are dominated by errors. While the masters on the other hand, seldom err and dominate errors.

Accepting God's word for exactly what it says, regardless of our experiences, confers mastery. And the more and more we believe and proclaim it, we get closer and closer and closer and even more closer to the exact reality of what it says. and this is why the Bible tells us in the book of Proverbs that the path of the just is as a shining light that shines more and more unto the perfect day.

Bless you.

Now lets not become fruit inspectors, working for Fruit Inspector Inc. We are to self-examine, and we should out of maturity understand that not everyone is the same. Some people are delivered in an instant and others it takes years.

 

[Karraster]

The OP is straight from the Bible. If anyone takes issue, their gripe is with the Bible.

I Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27But I discipline my body and keep it under control,b lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

 

[Adstar]

Just maybe the extent to which you believe yourself to be bound, you are. Listen Adstar, I am not supporting "the sinlessness in the flesh preachers." I saw an OP (first post of the thread) that attempted to share with believers tools to help them along their walk, that would permit them to not stumble. It is a good teaching, in that respect (I don't agree with one aspect of it, but thats neither here nor there).

Then a person comes in instantly addressing sinless perfectionism, instead of adding to the conversation that emekrus started. Specifically about tools, or keys, to infallibility. Surely you can appreciate, at the very least, the premise and heart behind such a teaching. To encourage believers.

You got to be kidding... Encourage babes in Christ by telling them that if they are real Christians then they will know when they achieve sinlessness in the flesh..... Yeah thats going to be really encouraging for a babe in Christ when they listen to this wolf in sheeps clothing and end up believing that they are not saved because the sinned today... I tell you whati am focused on warning new Christians of false preaching to protect them out of love for them.. I am not here to pander to wolves who seek to destroy the faith of others and lead them into deception and destruction..

I don't understand, sometimes, the need of us to combat sinless perfectionism to the degree that we would consider ourselves still under the dominion of sin. Sin is a choice. One that we sometimes make. Yet, are we bound to sin? Must we sin? Or, rather is it that we choose to sin through ignorance? How can we read God's word and not come away with a glimmer of hope that God will continue to sanctify and chastise us towards righteousness and holiness?

Yep.. and the above shows that you have sinlessness in the flesh leanings wichis why you are supportive of the preaching.. Yeah you say that you do not support it but the quoted parragraph above reveals that deep down you want it to be true and you are a supporter of it..

I've asked this before. How long can a Christian go without sinning? A day? A month? A year? The time really isn't the point, but rather the possibility. If possible, how then is it achievable? Read Romans 6, and tell me how you can come away from that and say, "I must sin."

I like how you injected that i say that people must sin.. trying to push my position to the extreme to make me look like a person preaching the licence to sin.. I read Romans 6 and the message i got from it is to resist sin to the best of ones ability..

Its not that I agree with everything emekrus is teaching, such as apostasy, or any such need to walk in righteousness for salvation (if indeed that is his angle). I just find the onslaught of aggression towards him as unnecessary, and maybe a little more compassion is in order.

I willhave compassion for the babes in Christ.. You can please yourself.. And again you declare you do not support emekrus's preaching when i have already quoted the verse where you clearly do support his preaching..

I stood beside him, not because I agree with him entirely, but because those that I usually stand with are not seeing the person behind the words. You may disagree with his ideals, but God still calls you to love, and correct him gently, with meekness.

This isnot the first thread of emekrus that i haveresponded to.. I responded to his WOF name it claim it prosperity deception promoting thread and stood against that deception of his.. Did he repent? Nope he doubled down after i posted scripture that clearly shows that religion is not a means of gain.. And here again emekrus resists the verses i delivered and doubles down in his sinlessness in the flesh preaching.. emekrus is not here to be corrected... He is here to preach his doctrines.. He is not here to listen and be corrected.. He is here to teach and preach and convert.. To draw people into WOF and sinlessness in the flesh doctrines.. I don't see him ever being won over to the truth.. So he must be opposed for the sake of the babes in Christ..

I gain nothing from defending him, and to be honest I don't know why I am because I strongly disagree with certain things he teaches.

You agree with him,, thats why you support him.. deep down you want to believe in his doctrine...

 

[Adstar]

Now let me give you a straight answer. By the grace of God, "I am a master over sin". By God's grace, through his scriptural revelations, I now have total dominion over the habitual sins I struggled with before now.

Now my mastery over habitual sin, doesn't mean I haven't erred at times and be convicted by the Holy Spirit. But once that happened I quickly ask and receive forgiveness by faith and repent...

So you have kept on sinning.. erred means you have failed to cease sinning emekrus so you do not have mastery over sin.. These keys you declare give Christians mastery over sin seem not to give full mastery at all.. So your doctrine seems to be false.. right?

The difference however is that I don't persist in habitual sin...

No.. You where not preaching about habitual sin emekrus in your opening post your where talking about Sin all sin.. You where talking about achieving ""Infallibility"" which means to be without any faults at all.. sinlessness in the flesh preaching... But now you reveal you keep on erring at times.. So you keep on sinning..

After repentance, I quickly get back to the right track of faith, confessing to myself "I shall never fall",

And that confession is a lie because you keep erring.. you keep falling..

And this is what mastery is all about; and this sermon here, is not in anyway teaching sinless perfection, but rather, "Mastery Over Sin". Cos that's what God has provided for us in his word.

You cannot have mastery over something if you still do it.. If you continue to err then that shows you do not have mastery over sin... This is so simple to see.. If a person ever does gain mastery over sin they will cease to sin... Period..

 

[BenFTW]

You got to be kidding... Encourage babes in Christ by telling them that if they are real Christians then they will know when they achieve sinlessness in the flesh..... Yeah thats going to be really encouraging for a babe in Christ when they listen to this wolf in sheeps clothing and end up believing that they are not saved because the sinned today... I tell you whati am focused on warning new Christians of false preaching to protect them out of love for them.. I am not here to pander to wolves who seek to destroy the faith of others and lead them into deception and destruction..



Yep.. and the above shows that you have sinlessness in the flesh leanings wichis why you are supportive of the preaching.. Yeah you say that you do not support it but the quoted parragraph above reveals that deep down you want it to be true and you are a supporter of it..




I like how you injected that i say that people must sin.. trying to push my position to the extreme to make me look like a person preaching the licence to sin.. I read Romans 6 and the message i got from it is to resist sin to the best of ones ability..



I willhave compassion for the babes in Christ.. You can please yourself.. And again you declare you do not support emekrus's preaching when i have already quoted the verse where you clearly do support his preaching..




This isnot the first thread of emekrus that i haveresponded to.. I responded to his WOF name it claim it prosperity deception promoting thread and stood against that deception of his.. Did he repent? Nope he doubled down after i posted scripture that clearly shows that religion is not a means of gain.. And here again emekrus resists the verses i delivered and doubles down in his sinlessness in the flesh preaching.. emekrus is not here to be corrected... He is here to preach his doctrines.. He is not here to listen and be corrected.. He is here to teach and preach and convert.. To draw people into WOF and sinlessness in the flesh doctrines.. I don't see him ever being won over to the truth.. So he must be opposed for the sake of the babes in Christ..



You agree with him,, thats why you support him.. deep down you want to believe in his doctrine...

Are you a slave to sin or righteousness? What does God's word say? Again, this isn't about sinless perfectionism. I don't need to be sinlessly perfect, because I am a believer in Jesus Christ, and it is His blood that cleanses me of all unrighteousness. I, by His grace, comprehend His grace and mercy, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Do you see me condemning anyone? No, and that is where issues arise when people do not comprehend the forgiveness of God based in the work of Christ. Someone encouraging people to walk righteous and holy is not an enemy of the Gospel, the Apostle Paul did it.

What do you offer these babes in Christ that desire holiness, righteousness, and to be set free from things that have bound them for years? I hope you do not console them in their sins as their lot in life, but encourage them of God's deliverance, His grace, His chastisement, and mercy. That you would teach them of the significance of approaching the throne of grace to obtain mercy in time of need.

Maybe you know more about emekrus than I, but if you knew me, you'd know that I believe in God's grace, the sufficiency of Christ's atonement, and God's ability to sanctify us.

 

[emekrus]

You got to be kidding... Encourage babes in Christ by telling them that if they are real Christians then they will know when they achieve sinlessness in the flesh..... Yeah thats going to be really encouraging for a babe in Christ when they listen to this wolf in sheeps clothing and end up believing that they are not saved because the sinned today... I tell you whati am focused on warning new Christians of false preaching to protect them out of love for them.. I am not here to pander to wolves who seek to destroy the faith of others and lead them into deception and destruction..



Yep.. and the above shows that you have sinlessness in the flesh leanings wichis why you are supportive of the preaching.. Yeah you say that you do not support it but the quoted parragraph above reveals that deep down you want it to be true and you are a supporter of it..




I like how you injected that i say that people must sin.. trying to push my position to the extreme to make me look like a person preaching the licence to sin.. I read Romans 6 and the message i got from it is to resist sin to the best of ones ability..



I willhave compassion for the babes in Christ.. You can please yourself.. And again you declare you do not support emekrus's preaching when i have already quoted the verse where you clearly do support his preaching..




This isnot the first thread of emekrus that i haveresponded to.. I responded to his WOF name it claim it prosperity deception promoting thread and stood against that deception of his.. Did he repent? Nope he doubled down after i posted scripture that clearly shows that religion is not a means of gain.. And here again emekrus resists the verses i delivered and doubles down in his sinlessness in the flesh preaching.. emekrus is not here to be corrected... He is here to preach his doctrines.. He is not here to listen and be corrected.. He is here to teach and preach and convert.. To draw people into WOF and sinlessness in the flesh doctrines.. I don't see him ever being won over to the truth.. So he must be opposed for the sake of the babes in Christ..



You agree with him,, thats why you support him.. deep down you want to believe in his doctrine...

My dear,

I have a secret of always winning falsehood. And that of course, is with direct scriptural truth. The easiest way to knock off falsehood is to bring out a strong scriptural truth and I guarantee you, falsehood will always bow.

You are not going to achieve much by emotional fits. Added to scriptural truths, attitude is also a very great preacher.

I bet you, you will win more souls for Christ with the right attitude than emotional fits. I am telling you from experience.

 

[Adstar]

Are you a slave to sin or righteousness? What does God's word say? Again, this isn't about sinless perfectionism. I don't need to be sinlessly perfect, because I am a believer in Jesus Christ, and it is His blood that cleanses me of all unrighteousness. I, by His grace, comprehend His grace and mercy, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Do you see me condemning anyone? No, and that is where issues arise when people do not comprehend the forgiveness of God based in the work of Christ. Someone encouraging people to walk righteous and holy is not an enemy of the Gospel, the Apostle Paul did it.

What do you offer these babes in Christ that desire holiness, righteousness, and to be set free from things that have bound them for years? I hope you do not console them in their sins as their lot in life, but encourage them of God's deliverance, His grace, His chastisement, and mercy. That you would teach them of the significance of approaching the throne of grace to obtain mercy in time of need.

Maybe you know more about emekrus than I, but if you knew me, you'd know that I believe in God's grace, the sufficiency of Christ's atonement, and God's ability to sanctify us.

No point reponding to you anymore.. When people mockingly laugh at ones serious replies then one can know the discussion is over..

 

[emekrus]

So you have kept on sinning.. erred means you have failed to cease sinning emekrus so you do not have mastery over sin.. These keys you declare give Christians mastery over sin seem not to give full mastery at all.. So your doctrine seems to be false.. right?



No.. You where not preaching about habitual sin emekrus in your opening post your where talking about Sin all sin.. You where talking about achieving ""Infallibility"" which means to be without any faults at all.. sinlessness in the flesh preaching... But now you reveal you keep on erring at times.. So you keep on sinning..



And that confession is a lie because you keep erring.. you keep falling..




You cannot have mastery over something if you still do it.. If you continue to err then that shows you do not have mastery over sin... This is so simple to see.. If a person ever does gain mastery over sin they will cease to sin... Period..

The word of God calls Job a perfect man. That doesn't mean Job never erred.

Lionel Messi is a master footballer, but he missed a penalty kick at the world cup. Yet he is still a master footballer.

If you say my confession is a lie and I am confessing scriptures. Then you are indirectly saying the scripture is a lie.

 

[BenFTW]

No point reponding to you anymore.. When people mockingly laugh at ones serious replies then one can know the discussion is over..

I found your insistence of me wanting to believe in his beliefs funny. Is that so wrong? Adstar, good for you for standing up for babes in Christ. I get it, it is important that people not fall into doctrines that can so easily entangle. Maybe my approach here wasn't the best, as my point in this discussion more points to practicality as opposed to theory. -shrugs-

 

[Adstar]

My dear,

I have a secret of always winning falsehood. And that of course, is with direct scriptural truth. The easiest way to knock off falsehood is to bring out a strong scriptural truth and I guarantee you, falsehood will always bow.

You are not going to achieve much by emotional fits. Added to scriptural truths, attitude is also a very great preacher.

I bet you, you will win more souls for Christ with the right attitude than emotional fits. I am telling you from experience.

I will continue to post scripture that reveals the false doctrine that others are putting forward and yeah that makes me unpopular.. So be it.. I would rather be hated because i stand for the truth then be loved because i tell sweet sounding deception..

Those who the Holy Spirit is leading towards eternal life will know the truth when they read it.. no matter if it is given with great eloquence or it is given by a poor speller with poor word selection.. God can cause the most pathetic efforts of His Children to shine his light..

 

[Adstar]

BenFTW is now on my ignore list...

 

[BenFTW]

Why do I even try?

 

[Adstar]

The word of God calls Job a perfect man. That doesn't mean Job never erred.

Lionel Messi is a master footballer, but he missed a penalty kick at the world cup. Yet he is still a master footballer.

If you say my confession is a lie and I am confessing scriptures. Then you are indirectly saying the scripture is a lie.

I do not oppose any scripture... I oppose faulty interpretations of scripture.. And sinlessness in the flesh is a faulty interpretation of scripture... Which by your confession of erring has confirmed to me again this it is not true..

 

[UnderGrace]

I do not oppose any scripture... I oppose faulty interpretations of scripture.. And sinlessness in the flesh is a faulty interpretation of scripture... Which by your confession of erring has confirmed to me again this it is not true..

Agree we have no idea about the depth of our sin, the truth comes out in the trials, testings and temptations not in the good times.

 

[emekrus]

I do not oppose any scripture... I oppose faulty interpretations of scripture.. And sinlessness in the flesh is a faulty interpretation of scripture... Which by your confession of erring has confirmed to me again this it is not true..

Well, Peter says if you do these things you shall never fall in 2 Peter 1...

Please may I get your 'right interpretation please?'