The second coming of Jesus

[crossnote]

They were concerned about both events. Because since there were people teaching that the day of the Lord had already come, it would mean that they had missed being caught up and were now going to face God's wrath. They go hand in hand.

I just can't imagine them thinking they missed the Day of the Lord with all the attending horrors.. Maybe they had Preterist teachers back then as well, that were great at explaining away prophecy. LOL

 

[Ahwatukee]

Wow, thank you.

(Sounds like a Calvary Chapel teaching I heard once)

You leave it scripturely vague as for pre-trip/ mid-trib (I approve)

My current understanding is mid trib because wrath is after seal 6. (Technically rev 14:19, wrath involving bloodshed. In Rev 11:14 a woe is not "wrath" yet. Rev 7 is the sealing of saints - the multitude appeared, but in heaven time (spiritual vision) , perhaps all persevering saints from rev 8-14, (?) except this concept has challenges when virgins appear and are noted in rev 14. )

All of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, including the woes of trumpets 5, 6 & 7, are God's wrath and also including all the plagues that the two witnesses will bring. The entire time period is the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath, including the beasts kingdom, the mark of the beast, etc. Remember, it is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals and is therefore the initiator of God's wrath and all of the resulting fatalities.

Rev 11:13 the remnant gave glory to God of heaven (possible referring to Jews only? Or new tribulation believers? Is there a way the church could have a remnant (a very Jewish term) )

If we are to be grammatically correct, 'the remnant' would be the enemies of the two witnesses who were gloating over the death of the two witnesses who were sending gifts back and fourth to each. Those people will have seen them resurrected after being dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days. After they resurrected a great earthquake follows killing seven thousand and the rest of those people who didn't die in the quake are those who give glory to God. In regards to this referring to Jews, they won't be there in Jerusalem, because they will have fled out into the wilderness as revealed in Revelation 12:6, 14. where they will be cared for by God during that 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

Revelation 6:11-12,16-17
[11]And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Believers still need to die (not the rapture yet)

[12]And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[16]And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17]For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Since the six seal is a part of God's wrath, then the church cannot be on the earth for those plagues of wrath. Also, the announcement "the great day of their wrath has come" is on-going false teaching interpreting God's wrath as only taking place after the sixth seal. However, It is an announcement of God's wrath in its entirety, which includes the seals 1 thru 6 as well as the trumpets and bowls that follow. In further support of this, there is another announcement of God's wrath found in Rev.11:18

"The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come."

So, if we use your reasoning, then God's wrath would have to begin after the 7th trumpet. So when does God's wrath begin, after the 6th seal or the 7th trumpet. For both state that "God's wrath has come?" The answer is that it is a general announcement which includes all of God's wrath. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are three sets of seven judgments which belong together and should not be sliced up with some being wrath and others not.

in my opinion, the 7 th seal is the wrath

Revelation 14:6-10,12-16
[6]And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

[7]Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Again, 'the hour of His judgment' would include all the plagues of wrath which have already taken place, as well as the wrath that is yet to follow.

how many denominations if that was the gospel proclaimed? (Nvm)

The gospel is being proclaimed to unbelievers, not the church. In fact, the last time the church was mentioned was at the end of chapter 3, then disappears from the narrative. The next time we see the church, they are referred to as the bride in Rev.19:6-8 at the wedding of the Lamb. And the next time we actually see the word 'church' again is in Rev.22:16. The reason for the absence of the word 'church' is because it is not on the earth during the time of God's wrath.

[8]And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[9]And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10]The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

The warning above that the angel will be proclaiming throughout the entire earth and to all nations and languages, will be to all of the inhabitants of the earth, not the church.

[12]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

still on earth

[13]And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The saints referred to above, are those great number of white robed saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17, who will be those who will have become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. Throughout Revelation chapters 1 thru 3, the word 'church' appears 19 times. Then after chapter 4 the word never appears again and is replaced with hagios/saints. These are the saints many of who will go through the great tribulation i.e. the last 3 1/2 years.

thanks thanks for reading. I'm not 100% and welcome scriptural correction

I just realized technically if rev 14:16 is the rapture of the church, rev 14: 17-20 could be the wrath on unbelieving world. Therefore it would be post-trib because no more trib for anyone
remember Jesus said the days are cut short for the elects sake. (Implying the elect go through the tribulation)

Rev.14:16 is not the gathering of the church, for that would put the church through the majority of God's wrath, which we are not appointed to suffer. The gathering of the church is found in Rev.4:1, which is what I call a prophetic allusion to where the church is called up by that voice that sounds like a trumpet, which is identified as the Lord's voice in Rev.1:10. After this takes place, we never see the word 'church' referred to again during the narrative of God's wrath.

This article makes good points about mid trib, exposing shortfalls of pre-trib, with scripture:[/QUOTE]

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

They were concerned about both events. Because since there were people teaching that the day of the Lord had already come, it would mean that they had missed being caught up and were now going to face God's wrath. They go hand in hand.

They would also have missed the dead rising up from the graves too. If there was a rapture, they would have seen the rapture and the graves. All these things they would have seen if they believed the 2nd coming occurred and they were left behind.

So, there is still fundamentally a lot of issues of faith and belief possibly. Likely if they were discerning, they would have written Paul and told him of these teachings. I don't think we know their motives or what they wrote about in their communication with Paul. But, if it were you and you thought the 2nd coming occurred and you were left behind, wouldn't you be wondering how you missed all the other signs?

 

[OldSage]

Just curious, is 'the second coming' actually a scriptural term?

 

[Ahwatukee]

I am so glad to have another with me in my thinking. I could have not composed my feelings better. Thanks.
God revealed the two witnesses to me in the same manner with proof in scriptures.

He is great. Praise God!!!

Thank you for saying so! It is always uplifting when other believers have been revealed the same information regarding scripture. Especially today, since there seems to be a plethora of interpretations on any given eschatological subject.

And I say Amen to God's praise!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Why are you using a new age religion Bible...with NEW slanted interpretations of God's word?

Hello again!

I look at all of the major translations, comparing them side by side for any given scripture. I look at the NIV, NLT, NASB, Berean Literal Bible, Berean study Bible, the interlinear, the actual Greek, KJV, and many others. I also use the Codex Sinaiticus.

Please give me an example of 'slanted interpretations' in my posts.

Thanks!

 

[Ahwatukee]

I just can't imagine them thinking they missed the Day of the Lord with all the attending horrors.. Maybe they had Preterist teachers back then as well, that were great at explaining away prophecy. LOL

I'm sure they had there share of false teachers. It's no wonder then that we have been inundated with them during these last days.

 

[crossnote]

Just curious, is 'the second coming' actually a scriptural term?

John 14:3 ESV
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

‘Again’ implies a 2nd time.

 

[Ahwatukee]

They would also have missed the dead rising up from the graves too. If there was a rapture, they would have seen the rapture and the graves. All these things they would have seen if they believed the 2nd coming occurred and they were left behind.

So, there is still fundamentally a lot of issues of faith and belief possibly. Likely if they were discerning, they would have written Paul and told him of these teachings. I don't think we know their motives or what they wrote about in their communication with Paul. But, if it were you and you thought the 2nd coming occurred and you were left behind, wouldn't you be wondering how you missed all the other signs?

No, because the other signs of The Day of the Lord, would not necessarily have begun right away. For example, we don't know how much of a gap there will be in between when the church is gathered until that antichrist makes his seven year covenant with Israel and God's wrath begins. So, if they were told that the day of the Lord had already come, then they would have been anticipating God's wrath to shortly begin. In other words, if you've entered into the Day of the Lord, then you've missed the gathering and wrath is to follow.

 

[soberxp]

Just curious, is 'the second coming' actually a scriptural term?

2 Corinthians 13:2 I told you before,and foretell you,as if I were present,the second time;and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned,and to all other,that,if I come again,I will not spare.

 

[Ahwatukee]

John 14:3 ESV
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

‘Again’ implies a 2nd time.

Right on! And where Jesus is, would be in the Father's house and which as you said, He went to prepare places for us.

I don't know why understanding this is so difficult for these guys. We have the Lord telling us that there are many dwelling places in His Father's house. And that He was going there (to the Father's house) to prepare places for us. And that He would be returning to get us to take us back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us. It's a no-brainer! In further support of this, we have Paul saying the following in his letter to the Philippians:

"But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.

The time that our lowly bodies are transformed, is when the Lord descends and resurrects the dead and changes the living into their immortal and glorified bodies. And since our citizenship is in heaven, then that is where He will be taking us.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Just curious, is 'the second coming' actually a scriptural term?

Hello, OldSage,

I don't believe that the term 'Second Coming' is found in scripture, but is derived from the scriptures which state that that the Lord is going to return to the earth again to end the age. This unfortunately is misinterpreted to include the gathering of the church, which are two separate events, which take place at different times and for different purposes.

 

[Ruby123]

All of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, including the woes of trumpets 5, 6 & 7, are God's wrath and also including all the plagues that the two witnesses will bring. The entire time period is the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath, including the beasts kingdom, the mark of the beast, etc. Remember, it is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals and is therefore the initiator of God's wrath and all of the resulting fatalities.



If we are to be grammatically correct, 'the remnant' would be the enemies of the two witnesses who were gloating over the death of the two witnesses who were sending gifts back and fourth to each. Those people will have seen them resurrected after being dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days. After they resurrected a great earthquake follows killing seven thousand and the rest of those people who didn't die in the quake are those who give glory to God. In regards to this referring to Jews, they won't be there in Jerusalem, because they will have fled out into the wilderness as revealed in Revelation 12:6, 14. where they will be cared for by God during that 1260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

Revelation 6:11-12,16-17
[11]And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



Since the six seal is a part of God's wrath, then the church cannot be on the earth for those plagues of wrath. Also, the announcement "the great day of their wrath has come" is on-going false teaching interpreting God's wrath as only taking place after the sixth seal. However, It is an announcement of God's wrath in its entirety, which includes the seals 1 thru 6 as well as the trumpets and bowls that follow. In further support of this, there is another announcement of God's wrath found in Rev.11:18

"The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come."

So, if we use your reasoning, then God's wrath would have to begin after the 7th trumpet. So when does God's wrath begin, after the 6th seal or the 7th trumpet. For both state that "God's wrath has come?" The answer is that it is a general announcement which includes all of God's wrath. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are three sets of seven judgments which belong together and should not be sliced up with some being wrath and others not.



Again, 'the hour of His judgment' would include all the plagues of wrath which have already taken place, as well as the wrath that is yet to follow.



The gospel is being proclaimed to unbelievers, not the church. In fact, the last time the church was mentioned was at the end of chapter 3, then disappears from the narrative. The next time we see the church, they are referred to as the bride in Rev.19:6-8 at the wedding of the Lamb. And the next time we actually see the word 'church' again is in Rev.22:16. The reason for the absence of the word 'church' is because it is not on the earth during the time of God's wrath.



The warning above that the angel will be proclaiming throughout the entire earth and to all nations and languages, will be to all of the inhabitants of the earth, not the church.



The saints referred to above, are those great number of white robed saints introduced in Rev.7:9-17, who will be those who will have become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. Throughout Revelation chapters 1 thru 3, the word 'church' appears 19 times. Then after chapter 4 the word never appears again and is replaced with hagios/saints. These are the saints many of who will go through the great tribulation i.e. the last 3 1/2 years.

thanks thanks for reading. I'm not 100% and welcome scriptural correction



Rev.14:16 is not the gathering of the church, for that would put the church through the majority of God's wrath, which we are not appointed to suffer. The gathering of the church is found in Rev.4:1, which is what I call a prophetic allusion to where the church is called up by that voice that sounds like a trumpet, which is identified as the Lord's voice in Rev.1:10. After this takes place, we never see the word 'church' referred to again during the narrative of God's wrath.

This article makes good points about mid trib, exposing shortfalls of pre-trib, with scripture:

[/QUOTE]

@Ahwatukee, you may have already mentioned this but just a question. Has any of the seals or trumpets happened yet and if so what are we up to. Thankyou

 

[Ahwatukee]

@Ahwatukee, you may have already mentioned this but just a question. Has any of the seals or trumpets happened yet and if so what are we up to. Thankyou [/QUOTE]

Hello RubyTuesday

In answer to your question, I believe that the first seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the antichrist. He is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11 which is the King of kings and the Lord of lords, Jesus Christ. Since the antichrist has not yet been revealed, then that first seal could not have yet been opened. And since the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments take place in that order, then none of those plagues of wrath have begun. That time period will be nothing like the world has ever seen, unprecedented. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, (a fourth and a third, respectively) over half the worlds population will have been killed within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. And that's not including the fatalities resulting from trumpets 1,2 and 3, nor the fatalities from the bowl judgments. This decimation is supported by when the Lord said, "if those days had not been shortened, no one would survive."

Furthermore, since I believe that the opening of the first seal initiates God's wrath, then the church could not be on the earth to be exposed to them, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Christ already suffered God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. (Romans 5:9, 1 Thess.1:10, 5:9)

All that said, the church must be gathered prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath. And since we are still here, then God's wrath could not have yet begun.

I hope this is information is beneficial

 

[Ruby123]

@Ahwatukee, you may have already mentioned this but just a question. Has any of the seals or trumpets happened yet and if so what are we up to. Thankyou

Hello RubyTuesday

In answer to your question, I believe that the first seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the antichrist. He is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11 which is the King of kings and the Lord of lords, Jesus Christ. Since the antichrist has not yet been revealed, then that first seal could not have yet been opened. And since the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments take place in that order, then none of those plagues of wrath have begun. That time period will be nothing like the world has ever seen, unprecedented. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, (a fourth and a third, respectively) over half the worlds population will have been killed within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. And that's not including the fatalities resulting from trumpets 1,2 and 3, nor the fatalities from the bowl judgments. This decimation is supported by when the Lord said, "if those days had not been shortened, no one would survive."

Furthermore, since I believe that the opening of the first seal initiates God's wrath, then the church could not be on the earth to be exposed to them, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Christ already suffered God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. (Romans 5:9, 1 Thess.1:10, 5:9)

All that said, the church must be gathered prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath. And since we are still here, then God's wrath could not have yet begun.

I hope this is information is beneficial[/QUOTE]

Thankyou @Ahwatukee for answering my question. I tried to google it but as much as google is great it is also confusing. So many different answers. I was also thinking that none had occurred since we were not appointed to Gods wrath.

btw, like my new name

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello RubyTuesday

In answer to your question, I believe that the first seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the antichrist. He is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11 which is the King of kings and the Lord of lords, Jesus Christ. Since the antichrist has not yet been revealed, then that first seal could not have yet been opened. And since the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments take place in that order, then none of those plagues of wrath have begun. That time period will be nothing like the world has ever seen, unprecedented. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, (a fourth and a third, respectively) over half the worlds population will have been killed within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. And that's not including the fatalities resulting from trumpets 1,2 and 3, nor the fatalities from the bowl judgments. This decimation is supported by when the Lord said, "if those days had not been shortened, no one would survive."

Furthermore, since I believe that the opening of the first seal initiates God's wrath, then the church could not be on the earth to be exposed to them, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Christ already suffered God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. (Romans 5:9, 1 Thess.1:10, 5:9)

All that said, the church must be gathered prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath. And since we are still here, then God's wrath could not have yet begun.

I hope this is information is beneficial

Thankyou @Ahwatukee for answering my question. I tried to google it but as much as google is great it is also confusing. So many different answers. I was also thinking that none had occurred since we were not appointed to Gods wrath.

btw, like my new name [/QUOTE]

Yeah, Googling it as you found out, will get you every answer from here to eternity. The only way to come to a right conclusion, is by including information from all related scriptures on any given subject. That way you know for yourself the why's and howcomes.

Well, I'm glad you liked the new name. When I saw 'Ruby' I thought of the Stone's Ruby Tuesday and just typed it in. But 'who could hang a name on you?' Pun intended.

 

[OldSage]

John 14:3 ESV
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

‘Again’ implies a 2nd time.

Yes, well, anew, again - a further time.

The 2 seems to be a human inference though

 

[Adstar]

Remember when I was a kid,
Seven or eight years old
When I go to bed at night
The alarm clock at the head of the bed did not know why it fell to floor

What I see was the slow motion of falling

It's like watching pics frame by frame

Not at normal speed

Then the bed flew up on its own
Because of lack of knowledge, I don't know why it happened
When I was a child, I liked reading science fiction magazines, and I also wondered why I existed. I also thought about what it would be like if there were gods in the world. At that time, I felt that if God would die like human beings I couldn't accept it

I remember catching mantis and put it in glass bottles,

Then I had a sleep

The mantis turns green water in the bottle

When I was in middle school, I dreamed of a scene, and then it really happened. I knew all at that time. I could choose different results, but my curiosity made things develop into the same as in my dream


Because I didn't have access to the Bible at that time, and I didn't know it was God's power
When I was in high school, I first came into contact with the Bible. It was a Texas English teacher who introduced me to watch the passion movie. At that time, I was deeply shocked by Jesus. He was greater than the rest of the world

After work, I began to read the Bible slowly.

I've also read the Koran and the Buddhist scriptures

But I think the Bible is better

At that time, I realized that I was guilty.and heard a lot of people talk about the second coming of Jesus.

I don't know where to start
。。 About the second coming of Jesus Christ
I don't want to keep some secret any more


That was after I quit my job

I woke up one morning and suddenly I heard a song,
hey hey you you, I can be your girlfriend,no way,no way,thinking in a new way
Avril's song
Avril Lavigne

It's just six o'clock in the morning
Who played that loud music early in the morning

Then I found that the sound was around me, not coming from outside
Because I live in a place where no one will listen to her songs, and no one will play such loud music early in the morning

I wanted to prove that I'm sober and I don't have hallucinations,
so I asked my mom Did you hear someone play loud music
She said no
Then something strange happened. I said you would go downstairs with me. Then she didn't want to go. I saw her eyes turn into snakes in an instant
So in my strong request
She tossed the key here and there,
I felt a little abnormal
But on the other hand, she thought I was abnormal

Then I was sent to a mental hospital by force and I was electrocuted by a high voltage in the hospital

I feel terrible,
I just want to find out the truth and what happend

After 15days later, leaving the hospital, I went to my father's city
A lot of things have happened at the city
If anyone wants to know, I'll tell you

Reading the Bible during that time was my greatest comfort

And then I went back to my mom's city

Experienced life and death, the mood is very low

on October 10th 2008,(At this time, the earth of north and south are all in summer , and I have a fig tree on my balcony )
I felt depressed that day and walked onto the balcony, which was cloudy morning, overcast and looks dark。I saw clouds like Chinese dragon, moving its body and watching me as said :" you little guy " when it's moving the sun is the one eye.Stare at me. time is AM 12:00
I want to describe my experiences as much as possible. i was not too amazing when I watching the sun the eye or the clouds or the Chinese dragon , People often says what clouds might looks like , but i know what i saw,it's not just looks like,i know which is which.
Then clouds came back to normal,I walked back to my room calmly,and thought "Shall I go out again? " I started wondering what I saw just curiosity。I go back to the balcony .and watch the sky and cloud , He showed up again in the form of Chinese dragon. I started thinking about taking pictures of my Motorola phone。Just as I was ready to take pictures,I saw him who beginning to feel angry,the color turned to red blood, I said clouds turned blood, then disappeared immediately , disappeared .I was scared, feeling as i just killled him.

The dragon hey.. Maybe a representation of the serpent of old..

Isaiah 27:
1 "In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."

Revelation 12:
3 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. {4} And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. {5} And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. {6} And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. {7} And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, {8} And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. {9} And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

 

[Runningman]

Hi Runningman,

I don't think that you understood my post. The scripture states that "The Day of the Lord" will not come until the apostasy occurs and that man of lawlessness is revealed. In other words, the proof that the Day of the Lord is here would be the apostasy and the revealing of that man of lawlessness. I personally believe that the apostasy has been taking place, as I don't believe that it would bee something that would happen over night.


Gathering of the Church
The coming of our Lord and our being gathered to him

Followed by

The Day of the Lord (time of God's wrath)
apostasy and man of lawlessness revealed

There are two conditions for the day of Christ to come: the falling away and the man of sin revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Jesus won't return to gather the church until after these two conditions are met. Verse 8 makes it pretty clear that Jesus returns to destroy the anti-Christ. Since the gathering is not until these conditions are met, the church will be present for the great tribulation.

 

[OldSage]

There are two conditions for the day of Christ to come: the falling away and the man of sin revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Jesus won't return to gather the church until after these two conditions are met. Verse 8 makes it pretty clear that Jesus returns to destroy the anti-Christ. Since the gathering is not until these conditions are met, the church will be present for the great tribulation.

Well, I think there are other conditions. Notably the diaspora of the Jews,
and the end of their plight.

Another condition is a worldwide 'status quo' that engenders complacency.

The destruction of the AntiChrist. Scripture and prophecy is enough. Spirit of Jesus' mouth and brightness of his coming. (Obviously he doesn't literally nuke a temple - the brightness of his coming can even refer to his first coming. The proof and acceptance thereof).