the Sabbath
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How is Christ imputing His righteousness in us, back on the individual?
What God does give is free will. If He didn’t we wouldn’t be in this mess, but would all be robots which is not true love and God wants genuine love. Not everyone accepts His righteousness Psa 119:172 because they prefer their own and rebel against God’s law Rom 8:7-8, but if we have a relationship with Him and are willing to allow God told mold our heart based on His righteousness, God is the one doing the work, all we have to do is cooperate. John 14:15-18
What God does give is free will. If He didn’t we wouldn’t be in this mess, but would all be robots which is not true love and God wants genuine love. Not everyone accepts His righteousness Psa 119:172 because they prefer their own and rebel against God’s law Rom 8:7-8, but if we have a relationship with Him and are willing to allow God told mold our heart based on His righteousness, God is the one doing the work, all we have to do is cooperate. John 14:15-18
Because we are not discussing your attempt at living the Christian life.
What the discussion which is underway now is how salvation is administered by God to humanity.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works!
Salvation is a gift that we receive, freely given under grace. You cannot insert any work, or work of the law into that.
Your obedience to a work of the law has nothing to do with God's grace.
What the discussion which is underway now is how salvation is administered by God to humanity.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works!
Salvation is a gift that we receive, freely given under grace. You cannot insert any work, or work of the law into that.
Your obedience to a work of the law has nothing to do with God's grace.
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Why do you not kill, not lie, not covit?
If you love you neighbour your keeping a law... Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
I uphold that we
Don't we make void the law through faith? But that we establish the law.
Knowing our righteousness is as filthy rages. We can do all things in Christ that strengthen us.
If you want to make excuses to not obey and not grow and continue to reflect the fleshly sins to the world you can. But I know that Jesus can work in me to grow more and more into His image.
Phi 1:9-11
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
If you love you neighbour your keeping a law... Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
I uphold that we
Don't we make void the law through faith? But that we establish the law.
Knowing our righteousness is as filthy rages. We can do all things in Christ that strengthen us.
If you want to make excuses to not obey and not grow and continue to reflect the fleshly sins to the world you can. But I know that Jesus can work in me to grow more and more into His image.
Phi 1:9-11
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Your interpretation of Romans 3:31 is corrupt.
You inherited a corrupt interpretation and you ran with it.
Paul is talking to the Jews in Rome in Romans 3:31.
You either accept Christ crucified as the reason for your salvation, or you reject it.
Either you accept salvation by grace through faith, or you reject it.
The works of the law have no place in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You inherited a corrupt interpretation and you ran with it.
Paul is talking to the Jews in Rome in Romans 3:31.
You either accept Christ crucified as the reason for your salvation, or you reject it.
Either you accept salvation by grace through faith, or you reject it.
The works of the law have no place in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
There is only one gospel, not two, it’s not like only Jews have to uphold the law by faith, but gentiles can profane it. There is only one people in Christ and we are grafted in through faith. Gal 2:26-28 If you think faith means hearing Christ teachings but doing something different, I guess thats your free will. The wheat and the tares grow together- Jesus knows which ones are His. 1 John 2:3 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14
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Our works do not make us righteous.
But works can not be left out of the picture.
We are saved by faith in God's grace.
But faith without works is dead.
See the connection.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Rom 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
.....15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Your efforts may not gain righteousness.
But you can choose to allow Christ to work in you... the fruit of the Spirit is obedience.
But works can not be left out of the picture.
We are saved by faith in God's grace.
But faith without works is dead.
See the connection.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Rom 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
.....15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Your efforts may not gain righteousness.
But you can choose to allow Christ to work in you... the fruit of the Spirit is obedience.
Your post is scrambled and incomprehensible.
You said, That is the law.
Here is the commandment Christ gave us.
John 13:34
I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Christ's new commandment is not the law, it is unconditional love. The law was a conditional covenant based on your obedience.
Love as defined by the law was loving others as you love yourself. An immense difference between your love for me and Christ's love for me. Do you see the difference between conditional, legal love and divine, unconditional love.
Tell me you can see the difference.
You said, That is the law.
Here is the commandment Christ gave us.
John 13:34
I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Christ's new commandment is not the law, it is unconditional love. The law was a conditional covenant based on your obedience.
Love as defined by the law was loving others as you love yourself. An immense difference between your love for me and Christ's love for me. Do you see the difference between conditional, legal love and divine, unconditional love.
Tell me you can see the difference.
I've explained this numerous times. Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) So, love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9 10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
The moral aspect of the law is written on our hearts. So once again, the law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.
Sabbath keeping with all its rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. Simply resting on Saturday does not mean you truly kept it holy.
An impartial reading of Colossians 2:16 shows that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths" as SDA's and other sabbatarians try to argue. The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint.
Paul's reasoning here, "Let no one judge you regarding a,
festival - yearly Sabbaths,
a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"
CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.
When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 a connection in Paul's teaching is revealed: "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."
Verse 10 clearly states, "you observe...",
days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days" in Colossians 2)
months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Colossians 2)
seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Colossians 2)
and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)
Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy days, including the weekly Sabbath.
When God wants to refer to the whole system of Jewish holy days, rather than name them all, He would refer to the yearly, monthly and weekly as representing the whole system. SDA's argue that the Sabbath Day of Colossians 2:16 is the years Sabbaths. But yearly Sabbaths were already referred to in Colossians 2:16 as "festivals". The "Year, Month, Week" pattern is well established in the Old Testament and Colossians 2:16 must refer to the weekly Sabbath.
Yearly, monthly, weekly pattern proves it is the weekly sabbath.
1 Chronicles 23:31 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 2:4 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 8:13 - Yearly (annual feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 31:3 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Nehemiah 10:33 - Yearly (appointed times), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbaths)
Isaiah 1:13-14 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbath)
Ezekiel 45:17 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Ezekiel 46:1-11 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbath)
Hosea 2:11 - Yearly (festal assemblies), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Galatians 4:10 - years, months, days
Colossians 2:16 - festival, new moon, Sabbath day
God included the 4th commandment (keeping the Sabbath day holy) in the 10 commandments for the Israelites under the old covenant of law. (Exodus 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:15).
Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath being kept before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9 10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
The moral aspect of the law is written on our hearts. So once again, the law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.
Sabbath keeping with all its rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. Simply resting on Saturday does not mean you truly kept it holy.
An impartial reading of Colossians 2:16 shows that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths" as SDA's and other sabbatarians try to argue. The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint.
Paul's reasoning here, "Let no one judge you regarding a,
festival - yearly Sabbaths,
a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"
CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.
When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 a connection in Paul's teaching is revealed: "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."
Verse 10 clearly states, "you observe...",
days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days" in Colossians 2)
months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Colossians 2)
seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Colossians 2)
and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)
Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy days, including the weekly Sabbath.
When God wants to refer to the whole system of Jewish holy days, rather than name them all, He would refer to the yearly, monthly and weekly as representing the whole system. SDA's argue that the Sabbath Day of Colossians 2:16 is the years Sabbaths. But yearly Sabbaths were already referred to in Colossians 2:16 as "festivals". The "Year, Month, Week" pattern is well established in the Old Testament and Colossians 2:16 must refer to the weekly Sabbath.
Yearly, monthly, weekly pattern proves it is the weekly sabbath.
1 Chronicles 23:31 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 2:4 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 8:13 - Yearly (annual feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
2 Chronicles 31:3 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Nehemiah 10:33 - Yearly (appointed times), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbaths)
Isaiah 1:13-14 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbath)
Ezekiel 45:17 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Ezekiel 46:1-11 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbath)
Hosea 2:11 - Yearly (festal assemblies), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)
Galatians 4:10 - years, months, days
Colossians 2:16 - festival, new moon, Sabbath day
God included the 4th commandment (keeping the Sabbath day holy) in the 10 commandments for the Israelites under the old covenant of law. (Exodus 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:15).
Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath being kept before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.
The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.
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I see that you are also hearing, "salvation maintained by works" in his statement. So, it's not just me. 
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So do you not believe we can fall away from Christ? As long as we are in Christ- have a relationship with Him, He is performing not us, we just have to cooperate.
Jesus was sinless- He kept all of the commandments including the Sabbath He is the only one who is righteous, we have no righteousness of our own, but He gives that to us (imputes) when we are living for Him and no longer living for the world. If we are living for Him- we wouldn't be hostile to God's law Rom 8:7-8, if we are it’s really not a good sign
A relationship with Christ is not a one time event, its is a day-to-day relationship. We need the faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus. The faith of Jesus is living the same way Jesus lived as He is our example to follow 1 John 2:6 who was without sin 1 Peter 2:21-22 but tempted just as we are Heb 4:15.
If Christ is living in us this is the result:
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
The commandments of God are not multiple choice or optional, Jesus didn’t keep some of the commandments, He kept them all, if we have His righteousness, we will be keeping them all too as breaking one is breaking them all. James 2:10-12 and why Jesus taught not to break the least of these Mat 5:19-30
We are saved by grace through faith
If we have the faith of Jesus and He is residing in us, we are in harmony with His commandments which leads to peace and righteousness. Isa 48:18 and reconciliation Rev 22:14
Jesus was sinless- He kept all of the commandments including the Sabbath He is the only one who is righteous, we have no righteousness of our own, but He gives that to us (imputes) when we are living for Him and no longer living for the world. If we are living for Him- we wouldn't be hostile to God's law Rom 8:7-8, if we are it’s really not a good sign
A relationship with Christ is not a one time event, its is a day-to-day relationship. We need the faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus. The faith of Jesus is living the same way Jesus lived as He is our example to follow 1 John 2:6 who was without sin 1 Peter 2:21-22 but tempted just as we are Heb 4:15.
If Christ is living in us this is the result:
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
The commandments of God are not multiple choice or optional, Jesus didn’t keep some of the commandments, He kept them all, if we have His righteousness, we will be keeping them all too as breaking one is breaking them all. James 2:10-12 and why Jesus taught not to break the least of these Mat 5:19-30
We are saved by grace through faith
If we have the faith of Jesus and He is residing in us, we are in harmony with His commandments which leads to peace and righteousness. Isa 48:18 and reconciliation Rev 22:14
Do you actually read what I write? I'm not trying to be difficult, but how does your reply answer my questions?
I'm asking about salvation and eternal life and you respond with OSAS, obedience, you make generalizations about a relationship with Christ in which our obedience is what keeps his righteousness imputed to us. And then say that is grace and faith. And finish with a statement equating faith with obedience.
How does any of that relate to salvation and eternal life?
Salvation is experienced by an individual when they believe. The individual at that point has been placed into Christ and has passed from death to life. All that salvation consists in will not be fully consummated until time is no more. But the believer now has peace with God and is a partaker of eternal life. The Holy Spirit takes up residence and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is at work in us. We have been born again.
I'm asking about salvation and eternal life and you respond with OSAS, obedience, you make generalizations about a relationship with Christ in which our obedience is what keeps his righteousness imputed to us. And then say that is grace and faith. And finish with a statement equating faith with obedience.
How does any of that relate to salvation and eternal life?
Salvation is experienced by an individual when they believe. The individual at that point has been placed into Christ and has passed from death to life. All that salvation consists in will not be fully consummated until time is no more. But the believer now has peace with God and is a partaker of eternal life. The Holy Spirit takes up residence and the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is at work in us. We have been born again.
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You obviously disagree with my post, what I said it is Christ power in us and it His work in us (which is what you also said) but I continued . . .and in Christ we would be obedient to God’s law. So you agree with everything but the being obedient to God’s law.
So. . .I guess you mean this
So all we have to do is believe, but we do not need to be obedient to God’s law
Need to be born again, but can also be disobedient to God’s law
You might consider guidance of the scriptures because it all comes back to obedience to God which for some reason people resist so much, like they did in scripture. In scripture it connects believing with obedience Heb 4: 3,6 John 3:18-20 and reborn to being without sin Romans 6 and sin is breaking God’s law. 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 so again reborn means one is obedient to God’s law if we are to follow the scriptures.
People like smooth doctrine that tickles the ear 2 Tim 4:3 they want to be their own teachers instead of having Christ 1 John 2:6 and the guidance of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18. If Christ is residing in us we wouldn’t be rebelling against God’s law. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
We are probably too far apart in our beliefs to come to any understandings and that’s ok. I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word.
So. . .I guess you mean this
So all we have to do is believe, but we do not need to be obedient to God’s law
Need to be born again, but can also be disobedient to God’s law
You might consider guidance of the scriptures because it all comes back to obedience to God which for some reason people resist so much, like they did in scripture. In scripture it connects believing with obedience Heb 4: 3,6 John 3:18-20 and reborn to being without sin Romans 6 and sin is breaking God’s law. 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 so again reborn means one is obedient to God’s law if we are to follow the scriptures.
People like smooth doctrine that tickles the ear 2 Tim 4:3 they want to be their own teachers instead of having Christ 1 John 2:6 and the guidance of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18. If Christ is residing in us we wouldn’t be rebelling against God’s law. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
We are probably too far apart in our beliefs to come to any understandings and that’s ok. I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word.
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