The Rapture

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Mar 28, 2016
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That's also a generalization of events, because we know that the earth doesn't pass away in conjunction with the Lord coming to gather his church.
It’s all one work which will be performed on the last day the second and final resurrection. Six times in John he uses the term "last day" to emphasize “the day of the Lord” the end of the age. At that time every believer from the beginning of time will receive their new incorruptible bodies which will be neither Jew or Gentile, male nor female.

The receiving of the new bodies (everyone) one will occur in the twinkling of the eye. It will not be done in shifts, some on the last day then another group in a literal thousand years later. The thousand years in Revelation 20 clearly represent a unknown of whatever is in view whether its time sensitive or not. He will come in the thief in the night (once) just as he came in the flesh for a demonstration of the true work (once.)

There will be no kingdom of God on this corrupted creation on earth not even for the twinkling of the eye. Corruption does not inherit the incorruptible


The revelation that John received is from the standpoint of the last day(day of the Lord) looking back. The events that are signified are revealed by a sign .The word signified reveals a parable is at hand It sets the standard for understanding the book.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Signs of observation(not signs to seek after) are needed when comparing the spiritual things not seen of God found in parables to be compared to the same spiritual meaning hid from the lost. Without parables Christ spoke not.

In verse 10 the “Lord’s day” signifies the last day the trumpet the final it’s the end of time

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Its the last day ... hearing the sound of the seventh trumpet all in the twinkling of the eye


Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;Rev 1:11

The voice of God is signified by a trumpret in the above parable it is represented by that see the tenmporal (seven golden candlesticks) to represent the bossum of Abraham the invisible presence of God.

The chain in Revelation 20 signfies the binding authority of the gospel . The bottomless pit the never ending justice . the word dragon or serpent signidied the the lying spirt who has no form the god of this world.

What do you think the word thousand years signifies in that parable?

Since the revelation is signified using signs as shadows we should start to look to the parables.Ignoring them can lead a person to another conclusion of there own design
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Considering you believe the book was written in the 90's AD I can see how you would conclude that. I don't believe history, I believe John got and wrote the vision on the LORD'S day as the bible says.

Revelation 1:10 KJV
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Yes the Lord's day the final day,the end of this corrupted world when time runs out.The Sun amd moon as the temporal time keepers under the feet of the bride the church , the final trumpet as did its work of waking up those alsep like the examle of Lazarus (Lazarus rise) and calling those on earth that are reigning witth Christ to recieve thier propmised inccoruptible bodies (neither male nor female, Jew or Gentile.......all in the twinkling of the eye
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Yes the Lord's day the final day,the end of this corrupted world when time runs out.The Sun amd moon as the temporal time keepers under the feet of the bride the church , the final trumpet as did its work of waking up those alsep like the examle of Lazarus (Lazarus rise) and calling those on earth that are reigning witth Christ to recieve thier propmised inccoruptible bodies (neither male nor female, Jew or Gentile.......all in the twinkling of the eye
I believe the day of the Lord was the first coming of Christ.... the SUN of righteousness.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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the times of the gentiles wil come to an official end when the body of Christ da church has the full number of gentiles come in and is raptured. this is when God will start pouring His wrath through da seals trumpets and vials, and the Lord will resume His program with Israel. why should we put the body of Christ into Israel's program? it dont make no sense
 
Nov 23, 2013
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the times of the gentiles wil come to an official end when the body of Christ da church has the full number of gentiles come in and is raptured. this is when God will start pouring His wrath through da seals trumpets and vials, and the Lord will resume His program with Israel. why should we put the body of Christ into Israel's program? it dont make no sense
Where is the scripture for the times of the gentiles ending when the Church has the full number of Gentiles and is raptured?
 

J7

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Apr 2, 2017
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Well this simply refers back to Mosaic Law.

If Israel was not under punishment, they were self-governing.

From the end of the captivity to the Romans, they were under foreign rule., i.e. under punishment




Daniel 9:24 KJV
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I don't see punishment anywhere in that summary.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Well this simply refers back to Mosaic Law.

If Israel was not under punishment, they were self-governing.

From the end of the captivity to the Romans, they were under foreign rule., i.e. under punishment
They may have been under punishment at the time of Daniel 9's prophecy but Daniel 9 is about the end of earthly Jerusalem, not the destruction of it, but the end of Agar and the coming of Christ and the new Jerusalem.
 

J7

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Apr 2, 2017
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Yes, but God's punishment required submission to foreign rule. That was their obedience.

They were incapable of ruling themselves so God put them under external authority.

When the Romans ruled the same mindset was in force.

Whilst Christians submitted to Roman authority, zealous Jews rejected it.

It was these zealous Jews (and Edomites I believe) who were the root problem all along.

When Jesus turned out to be a man of peace, they got cheesed off. They wanted a firebrand insurrectionist.

Later when all common sense dictated compliance with Rome, the hotheads and agitators of the Jewish Separatist Terrorist movement fomented war and strife.

When the Roman war of AD 67-73 arrived,it was all due to these Nationalistic racists who were ungovernable, either by man or God.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Yes, but God's punishment required submission to foreign rule. That was their obedience.

They were incapable of ruling themselves so God put them under external authority.

When the Romans ruled the same mindset was in force.

Whilst Christians submitted to Roman authority, zealous Jews rejected it.

It was these zealous Jews (and Edomites I believe) who were the root problem all along.

When Jesus turned out to be a man of peace, they got cheesed off. They wanted a firebrand insurrectionist.

Later when all common sense dictated compliance with Rome, the hotheads and agitators of the Jewish Separatist Terrorist movement fomented war and strife.

When the Roman war of AD 67-73 arrived,it was all due to these Nationalistic racists who were ungovernable, either by man or God.
I'm not trying to be arumentative or hard headed and I do agree with all that you said, but I just don't see any of that in the "purpose" statement of the 70 weeks.
 

J7

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Apr 2, 2017
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No worries. Israel's punishment was not arbitrary. Every 7 years the land was mandated by God to lie fallow. This is called the land Sabbath. (Pay close attention because you will see that God is very environmentally minded). By lying fallow, the land replenishes its nutrients.

Israel and Judah ignored a lot of Land Sabbaths, and were punished by God, Ezekiel 4.

The sum total was 430 years. (This represents a sevenfold punishment).

70 years of this were served by Judah in Babylon. This leaves 360 years.

The 70 years were then multiplied by 7 for Judah = 490 years.

(Israel too had their 360 years multiplied by 7 = 2520 years.)

So in short, these years are definitely punishment.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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I believe the day of the Lord was the first coming of Christ.... the SUN of righteousness.
What do you do with these?

1 Thes 5:2) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Pet 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Yes I see it as at the end of the 1000 year reign.
A lot of preterists see significance in the Crusades being 1,000 years after 70 AD. Others think it happened at the reformation. I'm convinced the "restoration of things" happened in 70 AD because Acts 3:21 and Rev 21:5 go together. Acts 3 was clearly 70 AD because of the prophet mentioned there, was the prophet Jesus, son of Ananius.


 
Nov 23, 2013
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No worries. Israel's punishment was not arbitrary. Every 7 years the land was mandated by God to lie fallow. This is called the land Sabbath. (Pay close attention because you will see that God is very environmentally minded). By lying fallow, the land replenishes its nutrients.

Israel and Judah ignored a lot of Land Sabbaths, and were punished by God, Ezekiel 4.

The sum total was 430 years. (This represents a sevenfold punishment).

70 years of this were served by Judah in Babylon. This leaves 360 years.

The 70 years were then multiplied by 7 for Judah = 490 years.

(Israel too had their 360 years multiplied by 7 = 2520 years.)

So in short, these years are definitely punishment.
The tile and drawing on the tile was a sign for Israel so that at a future point in time when the Son of man (Jesus) came against Jerusalem they would know this was in fulfillment of Ezekiel 4. Do you agree with this?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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What do you do with these?

1 Thes 5:2) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Pet 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Good point, I don't know lol.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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A lot of preterists see significance in the Crusades being 1,000 years after 70 AD. Others think it happened at the reformation. I'm convinced the "restoration of things" happened in 70 AD because Acts 3:21 and Rev 21:5 go together. Acts 3 was clearly 70 AD because of the prophet mentioned there, was the prophet Jesus, son of Ananius.


I can tell you PW from being involved in this thread I'm not sure about the 1000 year reign. One of the main reasons I believe it's a literal time period is because the creation which took 7 days is a foreshadow of the creation of whatever the creation is foreshadowing - the body of Christ or the new Jersualem, I'm not sure what it's foreshadowing.

I'm still undecided on this and that's one of the reasons I continue to keep up with this thread.
 

J7

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Apr 2, 2017
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@KingJim

Yes. 6000 years of mankind, 1000 years of rest. As per Psalm 90
 
Nov 23, 2013
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My point is that the Son of man bears the iniquity of Israel and Judah... this is not a punishment passage but a grace passage. Israel was not being punished for her sins, she was laying them on Jesus.

Ezekiel 4:4-5 KJV
Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
 

J7

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Apr 2, 2017
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hmm, except Israel has 2000 odd years under Babylonian rule. The Kingdom can only come (the stone in Daniel) when the Babylonian Kingdoms have served their time, and Israel has served her period of subjugation. That is why the Church is not ruling now as per the disciples' question:

[FONT=&quot]Acts 1:6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?[/FONT]