The Rapture

Bladerunner · May 30, 2017

What on earth does this have to do with the Beast of Rev 13? This passage deals with 1st century fake Christians.

These were the false prophets inside Jerusalem during its great tribulation as recorded extensively by Josephus, who was there. This also has nothing to do with the Beast of the Sea.

Again, first century people. No wonder you're so confused. You think none of the prophesy in the NT has been fulfilled.

May I suggest you read "Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius of Caesarea? He was a third century Christian leader. His writings and theology are very closely aligned with mine. Also, you really need to read "War of the Jews" by Josephus. If you do, your views will quickly change as you will start checking off all the boxes as most of NT prophesy was fulfilled in the 1st century.

It was written by a Bishop of the RCC at the time...... You really think his writings is something you can believe in.... She the Rcc will be the Harlot riding the Beast if Revelation.

VCO · May 30, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

EVEN the Scriptures say the First Resurrection happens over a period of time. The First Resurrection is NOT a moment in time, but rather the SAVED of all time, EACH IN THEIR OWN ORDER:

1 Corinthians 15:22-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

SEE, it CLEARLY says EACH ONE IN HIS OWN ORDER, one at a time, NOT ALL AT THE SAME TIME. SO ABSOLUTELY, ADAM WILL BE FIRST.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Therefore, the First Resurrection happens in specific phases over a NON-SPECIFIED amount of time. SO the SUM TOTAL of the Resurrected Saved, who have been declared Righteous because of the shed blood of Jesus Christ, are the First Resurrection no matter how much TIME it takes to complete that Resurrection.

popeye · May 30, 2017

At the rapture 1 thes 4 says the dead in Christ rise. Only those dead that were previously born again. No other dead rise.

Bladerunner · May 30, 2017

valiant said:

The rapture takes place at the end of time as I Thess 4 makes clear. The dead are resurrected and the living go to join them with the Lord. Judgement comes on the ungodly.

The great tribulation was a Jewish thing and will end at the same time (or earlier).[/QUOTE

so you are a partial preterist? Either way you are wrong and will be left behind when the Rapture Happens. An it will happen I would advise you to take stock of your situation and take the appropriate actions as necessary.

Ask yourself the questions. When the Rapture happens and millions suddenly disappear, are you going to change the story you are telling yourself or are you going to continue the same story. It is close to the same as the one world religion will have. It is similar to today with the RCCs version. You probably will be able to join it if you chose to.

The hard truth is that when one is left behind, there is only one or two options available in order to get into Heaven after the Rapture.
1. to be martryed likely with the head cut off. It is Isis usual method of death to Christians.
2. to live through 7 years of the worse period of time Mankind has ever or will know.... Yes, even more than 70 AD which was xxxxx to Jerusalem. John's revelation will be for the whole world. Once one lives through Daniel's 70th week, they have 1000 years to prove they are true Christians.

Good LUCK!

Bladerunner · May 30, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

The first resurrection started when Jesus rose from the Grave...and all events will remain within the 1st resurrection until the 2nd resurrection at the White Throne Judgement of God (the father) himself.

popeye · May 30, 2017

samuel23 said:

Really?? you really can not read that???
Your one and only verse,and you can not quote it???

Ok,lets read it together;
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

See that?
".....he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven..."

You were saying..........????

popeye · May 30, 2017

Yes indeed.

Harvest is 4 parts.
First fruits....which is Jesus and those resurrected at Jesus' resurrection
Main harvest...which is the pretrib rapture,along with the martyrs that are left behind and refuse the mark
Then the corners
then the gleaners.

The last 2 have to do with the Jews,and the messianic Jews and possibly some converting gentiles/tribulation saints.

Rev 14 is a rapture/gathering of "ripe fruit"

Bladerunner · May 30, 2017

popeye said:

not sure what you are talking about with the Gleaners and Corners...

There will be 3 levels levels of Saints that Rev speaks of....in the order of their revealing. the Church Saints (the Rapture), The Martyred Saints under the Altar (after the Rapture) and finally the Multitude of Nations-- Tribulation Saints. Of course the ones who live through Daniel's 70th week without taking the mark of the beast will be able to live within the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ in Jerusalem (physically) on Earth. They will have 100 years to accept Christ. By accepting Christ, they will continue to live and be given heavenly bodies at the end of the 1000 years. By not accepting Christ, They will die at the age of 100 and be raised during the 2nd resurrection at the White Throne Judgement to receive an eternal body and be tossed into the lake of fire.

Hope this help both of you....... There is no pre-trib ---see my earlier post.

popeye · May 30, 2017

Bladerunner said:

The harvest in rev 14 is probably jews. You left out the 144k first fruits.
Leviticus has the 4 parts to harvest.
The book of ruth vividly depicts the gentile bride.
She is with the harvesters and is a gleaner.

Jesus being a first fruit is referring to the 1st part of harvest.
it is actually hard to miss the depiction.

I have never,ever heard a postrib rapture adherent initiate any of about 6 dimensions vividly depicting the bride,and the 4 part harvest.

it is like they know nothing of the heart of end times.

I would bet money nobody can show me any postrib that knows Ruth depicts the bride of Christ. VIVIDLY DEPICTS IT.

VCO · May 30, 2017

popeye said:

The Bible uses the term Heaven to describe three different places, therefore there are THREE HEAVENS, and each successive one higher than the preceeding one.

THIRD HEAVEN = ETERNAL DWELLING PLACE OF GOD

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SECOND HEAVEN = THE STARS OF HEAVEN, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FIRST HEAVEN = BIRDS SOARED IN THE HEAVEN, OR RAIN FELL FROM THE HEAVEN - ATMOSPHERE

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

NOW WHICH ONE DO YOU THINK THE ANGELS GATHER RESURRECTED TRUE BELIEVERS TO FIRST?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore encourage one another with these words.

VCO · May 31, 2017

popeye said:

Popeye, listen and learn. THOSE IN HIM (born again) include both O.T. and N.T. Saints.

Malachi 3:6 tells us that GOD DOES NOT CHANGE. Therefore if we can find an example of how GOD saved ONE man, we will automatically know how GOD saves ALL who are saved, whether they are O.T. Saints or N.T. Saints.

O.T. Saints believed GOD would send a Messiah to save them from their sins.

N.T. Saints believe GOD did send the Messiah to save us from our sins.

THAT IS THE SAME FAITH THAT SAVES EVERYONE WHO IS SAVED.
It is the FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

Romans 4:3-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Likewise, David also speaks of the blessing of the man God credits righteousness to apart from works:

Acts 10:34 (HCSB)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Then Peter began to speak: “Now I really understand that God doesn’t show favoritism,

THE CONCEPT THAT GOD WILL SHOW FAVORITISM TO THE CHURCH-AGE BELIEVERS IS A LIE. It spawns out of the FACT that Neither JESUS nor the writers of the New Testament used the word CHURCH, it was substited for the actual word that JESUS USED, only because it was what the congregations were calling themselves when the first Bible was printed in English. Here is the word JESUS actually used:

Matthew 16:18 (YLT) [SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

That is right, HE calls N.T. true believers, the exact same thing HE called O.T. true believers, the ASSEMBLY.

John 10:16 (ESV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

AT THE RAPTURE WE WILL BECOME THAT ONE FLOCK LED BY ONE SHEPHERD. YES, that means O.T. Saints are Co-equally the ASSEMBLY HE HAS BUILT, and Co-equally the Bride of Christ. Get used to it, we are not better than them, we are Co-equally saved by Grace through the same FAITH.

PlainWord · May 31, 2017

popeye said:

The "clouds of heaven" have always been an angelic/spiritual army. I think we've had this discussion before.

Deuteronomy 33:26

“There is no one like the God of Jeshurun, Who rides the heavens to help you, And in His excellency on the clouds.

Daniel 7:13

“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.

Matthew 24:30

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64

Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Joel 2:2

A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, Like the morning clouds spread over the mountains. A people come, great and strong, The like of whom has never been; Nor will there ever be any such after them, Even for many successive generations.

Psalm 68:4

Sing to God, sing praises to His name; Extol Him who rides on the clouds, By His name YAH, And rejoice before Him.

Psalm 68:34

Ascribe strength to God; His excellence is over Israel, And His strength is in the clouds.

Psalm 78:23

Yet He had commanded the clouds above, And opened the doors of heaven

Ezekiel 30:3

For the day is near, Even the day of the Lord is near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles.

Ezekiel 38:9

You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”

Acts 1:9

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Jeremiah 4:13

“Behold, he shall come up like clouds, And his chariots like a whirlwind. His horses are swifter than eagles. Woe to us, for we are plundered!”

Isaiah 19:1

The burden against Egypt. Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.

Not all clouds are the fluffy white things we see in the sky. These "clouds are special." They can travel to heaven and accompany the Lord wherever He goes.

PlainWord · May 31, 2017

tourist said:

Most of Revelation is in the past.

Muzungu256 · May 31, 2017

ok guys i went to a pretrib research center on the internet and wow this system is so complicated its like you have to be a engineerlawyer mishmash to overstand this........... im out as kevin says in shark tank hahaha. so many resurrections and the weird israel church divide i thought all are israel who are in Jesus like galatians says........ no jew nor greek in Christ

PlainWord · May 31, 2017

popeye said:

LOL. There are no scorpions!!! They are locusts with power like scorpions. My good buddy, not to put you down but you are really struggling with your reading comprehension skills.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads...Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man...[SUP]7 [/SUP]The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle...and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots... [SUP]10 [/SUP]They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails.

I live in Nevada, I know what scorpions look like as I've killed hundreds around the house, in the garage and outside. I can assure you, scorpions don't have wings.

So, John is comparing these locusts to scorpions, to horses, to men's faces with woman's hair and lion's teeth that sound like chariots running to battle, and oh, they have crowns of something like gold on their heads. But there is no doubt that they are not scorpions. They are locusts.

Besides, since when do real locusts not eat grass, trees and green things and instead attack only evil men?

valiant · May 31, 2017

VCO said:

The first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ and the spiritual resurrection of the saints (Eph 2.4-6; col 3.1)

Each in his own order commences with Christ the firstfruit. Where does Adam come into it? Afterwards they that are Christ's at His coming (the second resurrection). Immediately following the latter comes THE END.

Where is Adam mentioned as rising? CHRIST is first. Then they that are Christ's at His coming. The first and second (and only) resurrections.

This is at the second resurrection when the resurrected saints meet the living saints.

This is true in so far as Christ is raised, and then His own are spiritually raised with Him over time.

Their spiritual resurrection (Eph 2.5-6) takes place over time. Their physical resurrection takes place at the Last Day {John 5.28-29).

valiant · May 31, 2017

Bladerunner said:

There was no RCC at the time. The bishops were independent, and no one more independent than Eusebius of Caesarea. The church of Rome only 'ruled' over its own area.

serpentdove · May 31, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

It's not difficult at all.

Here's the outline: Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things (Re 1:19).

See:

Chuck Missler Revelation Session 01 Introduction

VCO · May 31, 2017

PlainWord said:

LOL. There are no scorpions!!! They are locusts with power like scorpions. My good buddy, not to put you down but you are really struggling with your reading comprehension skills.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads...Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man...[SUP]7 [/SUP]The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle...and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots... [SUP]10 [/SUP]They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails.

I live in Nevada, I know what scorpions look like as I've killed hundreds around the house, in the garage and outside. I can assure you, scorpions don't have wings.

So, John is comparing these locusts to scorpions, to horses, to men's faces with woman's hair and lion's teeth that sound like chariots running to battle, and oh, they have crowns of something like gold on their heads. But there is no doubt that they are not scorpions. They are locusts.

Besides, since when do real locusts not eat grass, trees and green things and instead attack only evil men?

THEY ARE DEMONS.

Ahwatukee · May 31, 2017

PlainWord said:

Hello PW,

These that will be coming up out of the Abyss or demonic beings, for verse 14 states that they have a king over them, the angel of the Abyss.

When that star, which is figurative for angel, opens the Abyss, out of it will come demonic beings that will resemble locusts, having breastplates like that of iron, having wings, faces like the faces of humans, hair like women's hair, teeth like lions teeth and tails and stings like that of scorpions. They are intelligent for they will be commanded to not to harm the trees or plants or any green thing, but only those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads, which is referring to the 144,000 out of the twelve tribes of Israel who will have been sealed in Rev.7. These group will be the only ones exempt from this 5th trumpet plague.

For five months these demonic beings will torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of a scorpion. People will seek to die, but death will not be in operation at that time.

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