The Rapture will happen in the middle of the Tribulation

The_Watchers_2017 · Dec 9, 2023

I came here seeking Fellowship in a shared love of the GIFTS,
Jesus being first of, and have been called satan.
Not bad for my first time & I feel welcomed even if not loved.
You ask if I know why you came off like, you have never, felt the love of the brethren ?
And I think I do. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Yous believe really really believe your in like flin not a scratch on your butts, a free ticket to ride and all because you believe. But you have left another puppy in the cupboard. Believe & obey. Not at all surprised this hearsay from the Thompson chain reference bible, about a rapture created in the early 1900s has you all confused. After all the things Paul says are hard to understand.
What reveals you for the noisy gongs you are becoming, is your lack of love.
You wish to avoid the consequence's of your free will choices, and the wrath of GOD coming. That is normal.
Not being able to see that the two reapers you refer to for your misinterpretation of scripture came and reaped but they reaped of the world, not Jews or Christians, the world & to keep it clear, the second reap was clearly put right where the first reap was, in the wine press of the Wrath of GOD. Double portions and all that.
I think even you hypocrites can see the free ride is over. You joined us until it started to cost you. Now you will betray us, turn us in, kill us in the name of god. Read rev 6 slower and realize after the food dries up
which is like right now, they (you?) come after us. Do you still want to be part of us ? Will you be able to keep singing while being roasted alive in a bronze sculpture, will you leave us for the deal, where in, all you have to do, is receive the mark ? No more having to pretend you did not see the obey part. You will be free to rip rape tear and plunder human flesh made in HIS image, in fact it has already started. Anyone who can read Ezk 37 38 & 39 and not see GOD is drawing these doomed souls to their final judgement, clearly believes the lie. Getting a lot easier to spot them, they are factious and have 2 Peter 3:16 as their battle cry.
You will now denie deflect and delay anything to ignore, you were picked, to get the mark, nothing you can do about it except repent or die. And a remnant has been chosen, to not, even, be able to, get the mark of this beast you dared call me, a man of God. HE said it is only fair to repay you ...
I really was new here, so who ever you ran off before, it wasn't me. I will leave this den, but only because the two witnesses, who you can't shut up, or run off, are coming on line and they will speak.

i am my own person.
trust me, i am alone here.
if people were ran off because of me, it's because, they were tired of being proven wrong.
you made a broad statement about knowing people based upon their side of the 2 Scriptural references you provided.
i wondered if you were professing Discernment.
so, i did as i did.
but can clearly see, it was not the Gift of Discernment at all, but, you were just separating based off those Verses.

Ronny · Dec 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

did we forget the armies of gog & magog ? These millions after almost a 1000 years of life without the devil rejected GOD an attack, so your reasoning is clearly flawed.
If He came and huing on a cross for them they would still just spit on Him. Let go of the fairytale stuff and stand up like a man.

The_Watchers_2017 · Dec 9, 2023

Ronny said:

Ezekiel 38 is about invading Israel [Gog and Magog]
Revelation is after the 1,000 year Reign and [Gog and Magog] attack God Himself

1 is a literal WAR
the other is joining forces to DECEIVE people away from God.

try understanding what you read.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

That is a good point which the naysayers do not even take into account.

There is no question that it is God the Holy Spirit who is restraining Satan from taking full control of this world. The Holy Spirit also indwells all the saints, which means that as long as the Church and the Holy Spirit Himself are present on earth, the Antichrist (either controlled or indwelt by Satan) cannot take full control of this world (as revealed in Revelation 13). So in order for that to happen, BOTH the Church and the Holy Spirit must be "taken out of the way" (2 Thess 2). And where else would they go other than to Heaven?

Therefore, when Christ comes for His Bride at the Resurrection/Rapture, He come "in the air" to do so, and DOES NOT descend to earth (1 Thess 4:17). Also since the Resurrection/Rapture happens "in the twinkling of an eye" (in modern parlance within nanoseconds), and the saints meet the Lord "in the clouds" it is evident that there is absolutely no connection here to the Second Coming of Christ. And why wouldn't this awesome event be "secret" or hidden from the unbelieving world? Only God's people are involved.

Also, the whole seven year Tribulation period (corresponding to the 6th and 7th seal judgments) is for the expression of God's wrath against the unbelieving, the ungodly, the wicked, and God and Christ's enemies. On the other hand, as far as the children of God are concerned "God has NOT appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ". Why? Because Christ Himself took our judgment at the cross.

Therefore (1) you will not find the words "church" or "churches" in Revelation chapters 4-18 and (2) you will find no reference to the Rapture in Revelation either. Neither is there any reference to the Rapture in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24 etc). Paul calls it a "mystery" in 1 Corinthians 15:51,52. Even the OT prophets did not know about this, but the Rapture of Enoch was a precursor. It is only Paul who was given the revelation of this mystery, and the mystery that BOTH saved Jews and Gentiles would be in one Body (the Church), with Christ as its Head.

selahsays · Dec 9, 2023

Ronny said:

Yep, at the end of the 1,000-year Millennium, those who refuse to believe in the Messiah will experience what’s referred to as the second death.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

- Revelation 21:8 (KJV)

GRACE_ambassador · Dec 9, 2023

Ronny said:

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God"

Amen.

Ronny said:

Precious friend, has nothing to do with studying God's Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided. We simply need Bible study Rules!

Ronny said:

Yes, And Rightly Divides Them, Approved Unto God - ie:

The rapture is part of The Revelation Of The Mystery, From Christ To Paul,
From Heaven, The Final Destination Of The Body Of Christ.

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

The Second Coming of Christ to the earth is part of Prophecy, given to the
twelve apostles, for Israel, who will inherit the earth!

More here:
Great GRACE Departure!

Amen.

Bob-Carabbio · Dec 9, 2023

River said:

Unless it happens at the beginning, or the End of the tribulation. BUT HEY!!!! it's only "theology".

Kroogz · Dec 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

I could be wrong. But from my studies, I see a pre-trib. No worries, Christ has my back either way.

Bob-Carabbio · Dec 9, 2023

Kroogz said:

The AG preaches "Pre-trib", which is good a guess as any. Right now, the color of the carpet in the sanctuary is more important.

Back in the '70s when the rapture was a "Hot topic" (as it always is in times of revival) there were companies selling "Revelation food" - dehydrated food - since in the "tribulation", you couldn't buy or sell without the "mark".

They had two "put-ups" 3-1/2 year and 7 year depending on your "Eschatology". They SUGGESTED, though, that to be safe, you should buy the 7 year supply. They DIDN'T include a shotgun and shells, however, to drive away your starving Christian neighbors who didn't buy their product.

Kroogz · Dec 9, 2023

jb said:

I believe it's Pre-trib. I will explain it to you on the way up!
You have a great morning,afternoon or good night depending where you are brother.

River · Dec 10, 2023

Ronny said:

Lets sit and ponder a moment on this subject that seems to divide us...
Ever hear the one about OLD MOTHER HUBBARD ?
Yea she went to the cupboard to get her dog.
When we try to string Pearls, (example: taking a verse from one book
and adding it to others, that confirm the prior ones in the chain.)
And it is this practice that has stumped us as a whole. When we try to Claim, we know a thing, and it seems, we are CLAIMING TO KNOW, when HE is coming to get us, yet PAPA made it clear NO ONE KNOWS the day or the hour ?
Verses taken out of contexts, that are off topic can not string up right - you end up with the same nightmare the Thompson Chain Reference creators did.
Now if one stays on topic and subject matter, and reads what Paul tells us of the Mystery revealed to him. You -
must at least, pray and ponder this TRUTH, on the subject, of the second coming of Christ, 1 Cor 15:51 & 52
AT THE LAST TRUMPET.
HE SAID IT, IT IS VERY CLEAR AS TO WHEN. And while everyone of you, have your verses to make your claim the simple fact remains,you all, have left the puppy in the cupboard, Mother Hubbard went to to get her dog a bone from. The puppy was never in the cupboard and Sweet Precious JESUS is NOT coming for us, until the
LAST TRUMPET SOUNDS.
PAPA I pray in my Lord JESUS name, you allow us to see, how little we know, beyond the assurance Rom 8:16
of our Faith. Please let them all, realize they, are also working out their own salvation with fear and
trembling. Amen

Old Mother Hubbard
Went to the cupboard
To give the poor dog a bone
When she got there
The cupboard was bare
So the poor lil' dog had none

Why spend any time with someone who gets a nursery rhyme so wrong?

selahsays · Dec 10, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

I don’t believe those who endure till the end will be removed. We stay right here on earth. Jesus Christ returns at the 7th trump and sets up His millennial Kingdom right here on earth. At this time, we will all be changed into spiritual bodies and reign with the King of kings/our Messiah throughout this one-thousand year period. 1 Cor. 15:52 tells us: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

River · Dec 10, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Satan's rebellion was an attempt to replace God in heaven:
“But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north. ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." Isiah 14:13, 14

Who was satan before he fell?
Ez 28:12 - “You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Ez 28:13 - Every precious stone was your covering: Ruby, Topaz, Diamond, Beryl, Onyx, Jasper, Lapis lazuli, Turquoise, and Emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, was in you. On the day that you were created
Ez 28:14 - You were the anointed cherub who covers

So satan was a cherub-level angel, who surrounded/covered/protected the throne of God - perhaps the single greatest angel in all of heaven. His perfect beauty is described by these 9 precious and semiprecious stones that are all Pleochroism or multi-colored stones. We then see the Levitical priest's breastplate covered with 12 precious stones, each identifying each one of the twelve tribes of Israel, and then we find the New Jerusalem built on 12 very similar but slightly different precious and semi-precious Pleochroism stones. These associations are not meaningless!

How is it that satan fell?
Eze 28:17 - “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.

What happened when satan fell?
Eze 28:18 - “By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries.

So satan corrupted the very courts of heaven and when he caused Adam and Eve to sin, he corrupted this world as well, becoming the god of this age (2 Corinthians 4:4).

Similarly, the Babylonian city system has been around since Genesis 11 when people rebelled just as satan did by seeking to build a city - tower whose top would reach into heaven so that they could make for name for themselves. The structure they built was not just a tower, it was a city-tower (Gen 11:4) עִיר - מִגְדָּל and I believe it would be man's counterfeit to God's planned New Jerusalem. This is why Babalon is the golden head of the great statue of Daniel 2, why the oral law of the Jews is called the Babylonian Talmud, and why the Roman Catholic Vatican sits on top of a Mythracic temple - a religion Rome imported from Babylon . . . Babalon represents man's rebellion against God and the satanic, antichrist spirit that guides that corporate empire.

The Book of Revelation often contrasts it's imagery. The mark of the beast in Rev 13 is contrasted with the seal of God on the 144,000 in Rev 14. The human/satanic city of Babalon of Rev 17-18 is contrasted with the New Jerusalem of Rev 21, and I believe, satan or the cherub who once covered the throne of God is being replaced by the Bride of Christ - or God's new Tabernacle!

River · Dec 10, 2023

Why is this explanation of God's end game of restoring all things to himself through the Bride and the New Jeruselum important in a thread regarding the rapture? The church has not just been removed from the earth to save them from the anti-creation event of Rev 6, they are removed to leave the earth to the people of Israel. In fact, the whole Millennial Kingdom will be all about the establishment of the Kingdom of Israel where Messiah will rule from Israel.

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The Rapture will happen in the middle of the Tribulation

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