The Rapture will happen in the middle of the Tribulation

[selahsays]

Great review, Selah.
But Messiah returns before Rev 19 - He returns in Rev 14:1 with the 144,000 to Mount Zion. This is the fulfillment of Zec 14:5, 1 Thessalonians 3:13, and more profoundly, it is the fulfillment of Jude 14-15 (Please read this verse)! Many people think that the 144,000 are evangelists, but they arrive with the Messiah to fulfill Isiah 63:1-6 - which we see in Rev 14:17-20. This is the second coming where Messiah comes to take the church home in Revelation 14:14-16 before the anti-creation event of Revelation 16.

Yes. I believe we’re on the same timeline of events that all come to pass at the 7th trump.

Chapter 14 describes what is happening on earth at the time the Antichrist is here and Babylon falls—This is the Day of the Lord when Jesus returns.

Chapter 15 describes the “Song of Moses“ being sung in heaven while the wrath of God on the Day of the Lord is being poured out on earth. This all happens at the 7th trump.

Chapter 16 describes the wrath of God (the vials) on the Day of the Lord when Jesus returns.

Chapter 17 explains a lot of the symbology and things we have been reading about as revealed to John.

Chapter 18 gives us the literal course of events that will take place during the destruction of Mystery Babylon.

Chapter 19 again describes the Day of the Lord as Babylon and the Antichrist (Satan), are destroyed at the appearance of the King of kings and Lord of lords!

 

[Underwhosewings]

a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron psalm 2) and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This is the “rapture”
The man child is the Body of Christ who are the overcomer’s.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

“They overcame.”

Revelation 20:6 KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 KJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[River]

Yes. I believe we’re on the same timeline of events that all come to pass at the 7th trump.

Chapter 14 describes what is happening on earth at the time the Antichrist is here and Babylon falls—This is the Day of the Lord when Jesus returns.

Chapter 15 describes the “Song of Moses“ being sung in heaven while the wrath of God on the Day of the Lord is being poured out on earth. This all happens at the 7th trump.

Chapter 16 describes the wrath of God (the vials) on the Day of the Lord when Jesus returns.

Chapter 17 explains a lot of the symbology and things we have been reading about as revealed to John.

Chapter 18 gives us the literal course of events that will take place during the destruction of Mystery Babylon.

Chapter 19 again describes the Day of the Lord as Babylon and the Antichrist (Satan), are destroyed at the appearance of the King of kings and Lord of lords!

I might add just a little more color to your vision, Selah.

Just as Messiah was crucified on Passover, was buried on Unleavened bread, was Resurrected on Firstfruits, and then sent His Holy Spirit on Shavuot (the Leviticus 23 Spring feasts); here in Revelation we find the fulfillment of the Fall Feasts. We see Yom Teruah at the trumpet blasts (Revelation 8 - 11), we are brought to the Ark of the Covenant in Rev 11:19 for Yom Kippur, and we see the Sukkot water libation ceremony in Revelation 15 - 16.

Together with the worship of the Glorified Saints in Revelation 15:2-5, and the Heavenly Ensemble in the Four-fold Haleluah in Revelation 19:1-6, the enemies of God are exercised and judged. More is going on than just Messiah showing up in Rev 19. God is using worship to redeem all of creation back to Himself, and he is using the church in the last 3 most significant celebrations of worship to do this: Revelation 14:2-3, Revelation 15:3-5, Revelation 19:1-6.

God didn't just save the church for us to sit in heaven, we play an integral part in His plan to vanquish evil and redeem all of creation back to himself.

 

[River]

Forgot to add . . .
The new heavens and earth look like this: Mystery Babalon is replaced by the New Jerusalem, and Lucifer, represented by 9 precious stones (Eze 28:13) is replaced with the Bride of Christ represented by 12 precious stones (Rev 21:19-20)

 

[jb]

The rapture though is imminent. And from my studies, that is pre-trib.

Try studying the Scriptures the "Berean way!" Acts 17v10-12...

The (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture is satanic in it's origin, and is NOT taught in Scripture!

The Scriptures clearly teach that the Lord Jesus comes immediately after the Great Tribulation! Matt 24v29-31

The Lord Jesus taught that only false prophets and teachers will teach a (secret) pre-tribulation advent and rapture, and that He will come in great power and glory AFTER the Great Tribulation, with every eye seeing Him! Matt 24v23-31, Isaiah 8v19,20, Titus 2v13, Rev 1v7.

 

[Radius]

pre or mid, it doesn't matter. it's a difference of 3.5 years. and no, pretrib teaching wont dash the faith of some. If it does, i doubt they were saved to begin with. Pretribbers, such as myself, will say, "well, what da ya know...it IS a mid trib rapture after all", and prepare accordingly.

 

[rrcn]

After to much of this bickering, in local places of gatherings.
I have been searching for any Spirit filled gatherings. Big or small anywhere.
But this insanity has spread to every corner.
At the last Trumpet - Once saved always saved - Believe AND Obey.
My Lord will you find any faith, when you come for us ?

What are you beliefs on the subject?

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Scriptures clearly teach that the Lord Jesus comes immediately after the Great Tribulation! Matt 24v29-31

All one has to do to understand this is to know that at the Second Coming Christ returns TO EARTH with all His saints and angels for the battle of Armageddon (Rev 19; 2 Thess 1:7-10). The Second Coming of Christ has nothing to do with the Rapture. If all the saints are WITH Him at this time, it means that He came FOR all the saints some time before. The masses of saints and angels are called "clouds" in Rev 1:7 because they are all dressed in white and radiating light.

As to your FOOLISH allegation that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is "Satanic", what that reveals is your ignorance about the subject. It was the Lord Jesus Christ Himself who first revealed the Rapture of the Church (the Bride of Christ) in John 14:1-6. And does the divine Bridegroom come for His Bride? Absolutely. Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. (Mt 25:1) And what did Christ say at the end of this parable (v 13)? Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. This verse speaks of the IMMINENCY of the Resurrection/Rapture. Meaning that the Rapture could take place even today (if the Lord chooses to make it happen).

As to your making a big deal out of "secret", of course the Resurrection/Rapture will be secret TO THE UNBELIEVING WORLD. It has nothing to do with the world, but everything to do with the saints (who are in the world, but not of the world).

 

[Nehemiah6]

Forgot to add . . .
The new heavens and earth look like this: Mystery Babalon is replaced by the New Jerusalem, and Lucifer, represented by 9 precious stones (Eze 28:13) is replaced with the Bride of Christ represented by 12 precious stones (Rev 21:19-20)

"Mystery Babylon" is a false and idolatrous religious system created by Satan. How can a heavenly CITY replace a RELIGIOUS SYSTEM? You get an "A" for an over-active imagination (especially with the speculation about the precious stones)!

 

[Ronny]

Lets sit and ponder a moment on this subject that seems to divide us...
Ever hear the one about OLD MOTHER HUBBARD ?
Yea she went to the cupboard to get her dog.
When we try to string Pearls, (example: taking a verse from one book
and adding it to others, that confirm the prior ones in the chain.)
And it is this practice that has stumped us as a whole. When we try to Claim, we know a thing, and it seems, we are CLAIMING TO KNOW, when HE is coming to get us, yet PAPA made it clear NO ONE KNOWS the day or the hour ?
Verses taken out of contexts, that are off topic can not string up right - you end up with the same nightmare the Thompson Chain Reference creators did.
Now if one stays on topic and subject matter, and reads what Paul tells us of the Mystery revealed to him. You -
must at least, pray and ponder this TRUTH, on the subject, of the second coming of Christ, 1 Cor 15:51 & 52
AT THE LAST TRUMPET.
HE SAID IT, IT IS VERY CLEAR AS TO WHEN. And while everyone of you, have your verses to make your claim the simple fact remains,you all, have left the puppy in the cupboard, Mother Hubbard went to to get her dog a bone from. The puppy was never in the cupboard and Sweet Precious JESUS is NOT coming for us, until the
LAST TRUMPET SOUNDS.
PAPA I pray in my Lord JESUS name, you allow us to see, how little we know, beyond the assurance Rom 8:16
of our Faith. Please let them all, realize they, are also working out their own salvation with fear and
trembling. Amen

 

[Ronny]

Idk how you feel but any thoughts ?

“but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭10:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:24‬ ‭

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever.”

new vision showing a heavenly israels struggle with Satan and the birth of the promised messiah who was raised up to Gods throne and rules creation. Satan and a third of the angels went to war and we’re cast out of heaven into earth to make war with those who have Jesus testimony in them and obey the lord

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron psalm 2) and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.


Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 7-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m saying is maybe this is why this is written to us in the church

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: ( on earth ) whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:10-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see at all what I’m poorly trying to say? Like revelation is a heavenly spiritual vision of the big picture even the then and now and forever and the seven trumpets are about what the law and prophets said was going to come bieng fulfilled which we find out is Jesus and the gospel

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the rest of the book being about the New Testament fulfillment after Jesus rose and ascended until the end

“Write the things which thou hast seen, ( past tense )

and the things which are,( johns present tense )

and the things which shall be hereafter;”( and also johns future )
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Maybe revelation is a whole picture for us To understand the present and the end but I’m the form of a spiritual vision filled with Old Testament prophetic figures from nearly every prophet of the ot

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

That is my problem with the thought/belief of the rapture sometime during the tribulation. That belief has the rapture pin pointed at a certain time. We would know the time of the rapture. And no one knows the day or time of the rapture. Only the pre-trib rapture makes sense for that.

You won't even know when it begins to know what day it could ever end.

Do you think God is going to announce today is the beginning of the Great Tribulation?

If He did that or if a Rapture took place then the Whole World would know the real God and choose Him.

But the god of this world is revealed first and the Deception takes place then we are removed before the WRATH to come.

 

[Ronny]

String them pearls - beautifully said.

 

[Ronny]

You won't even know when it begins to know what day it could ever end.

Do you think God is going to announce today is the beginning of the Great Tribulation?

If He did that or if a Rapture took place then the Whole World would know the real God and choose Him.

But the god of this world is revealed first and the Deception takes place then we are removed before the WRATH to come.

until the rest of your kind are killed as you were

 

[jb]

All one has to do to understand this is to know that at the Second Coming Christ returns TO EARTH with all His saints and angels for the battle of Armageddon (Rev 19; 2 Thess 1:7-10). The Second Coming of Christ has nothing to do with the Rapture. If all the saints are WITH Him at this time, it means that He came FOR all the saints some time before. The masses of saints and angels are called "clouds" in Rev 1:7 because they are all dressed in white and radiating light.

As to your FOOLISH allegation that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is "Satanic", what that reveals is your ignorance about the subject. It was the Lord Jesus Christ Himself who first revealed the Rapture of the Church (the Bride of Christ) in John 14:1-6. And does the divine Bridegroom come for His Bride? Absolutely. Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. (Mt 25:1) And what did Christ say at the end of this parable (v 13)? Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. This verse speaks of the IMMINENCY of the Resurrection/Rapture. Meaning that the Rapture could take place even today (if the Lord chooses to make it happen).

As to your making a big deal out of "secret", of course the Resurrection/Rapture will be secret TO THE UNBELIEVING WORLD. It has nothing to do with the world, but everything to do with the saints (who are in the world, but not of the world).

Blind leader of the blind, who errs, not knowing the Scriptures.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

until the rest of your kind are killed as you were

Our lives are not our own if we are truly bought and paid for by Christ's Works upon the Cross.

 

[Ronny]

rev 6:11 & 1 thess 4:13-18
If your not just some factious person in need of an argument please go read these verses.
But again if your just one of the many who have joined us in hypocrisy, until the apostasy
riot/falling away, then I have no pearls for you. And by your actions not the words coming from your mouth
I will know which you really are.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

rev 6:11 & 1 thess 4:13-18
If your not just some factious person in need of an argument please go read these verses.
But again if your just one of the many who have joined us in hypocrisy, until the apostasy
riot/falling away, then I have no pearls for you. And by your actions not the words coming from your mouth
I will know which you really are.

you are new here.
you don't know which side is up or down around here, unless, you've been here before as someone else.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

do you understand why i responded the way i did?

 

[Ronny]

I came here seeking Fellowship in a shared love of the GIFTS,
Jesus being first of, and have been called satan.
Not bad for my first time & I feel welcomed even if not loved.
You ask if I know why you came off like, you have never, felt the love of the brethren ?
And I think I do. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Yous believe really really believe your in like flin not a scratch on your butts, a free ticket to ride and all because you believe. But you have left another puppy in the cupboard. Believe & obey. Not at all surprised this hearsay from the Thompson chain reference bible, about a rapture created in the early 1900s has you all confused. After all the things Paul says are hard to understand.
What reveals you for the noisy gongs you are becoming, is your lack of love.
You wish to avoid the consequence's of your free will choices, and the wrath of GOD coming. That is normal.
Not being able to see that the two reapers you refer to for your misinterpretation of scripture came and reaped but they reaped of the world, not Jews or Christians, the world & to keep it clear, the second reap was clearly put right where the first reap was, in the wine press of the Wrath of GOD. Double portions and all that.
I think even you hypocrites can see the free ride is over. You joined us until it started to cost you. Now you will betray us, turn us in, kill us in the name of god. Read rev 6 slower and realize after the food dries up
which is like right now, they (you?) come after us. Do you still want to be part of us ? Will you be able to keep singing while being roasted alive in a bronze sculpture, will you leave us for the deal, where in, all you have to do, is receive the mark ? No more having to pretend you did not see the obey part. You will be free to rip rape tear and plunder human flesh made in HIS image, in fact it has already started. Anyone who can read Ezk 37 38 & 39 and not see GOD is drawing these doomed souls to their final judgement, clearly believes the lie. Getting a lot easier to spot them, they are factious and have 2 Peter 3:16 as their battle cry.
You will now denie deflect and delay anything to ignore, you were picked, to get the mark, nothing you can do about it except repent or die. And a remnant has been chosen, to not, even, be able to, get the mark of this beast you dared call me, a man of God. HE said it is only fair to repay you ...
I really was new here, so who ever you ran off before, it wasn't me. I will leave this den, but only because the two witnesses, who you can't shut up, or run off, are coming on line and they will speak.