The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

[HeIsHere]

For some reason you believe that a person cannot throw the free gift in the bin?

Galatians 5:2-4
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation
to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be
justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

You cannot deny what Paul wrote to the Galatians.

You fail to understand what is written in the scripture because you have been sold,
the idea of OSAS.

You say OSAS but Paul says You have been severed from Christ.

Whom am I to believe?

If you put yourself under the law you cannot be under the grace of Christ.

Again this is not about losing salvation but disconnecting from the empowering grace so one does not fall back into a sinful lifestyle.
As well, being under the law frustrates the work of grace.

Salvation is a done deal, but living in grace of God is akin to when Paul speaks about walking in the Spirit.
These are all exhortations to live the worthy walk.

 

[mailmandan]

If this is your reasoning then nothing in the Bible is safe.

In the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant, the master represents God and the servant represents mankind.

The servant was not given some quasi-forgiveness, the master had compassion on him and forgave him. Period.

"So, even though his debt was cancelled, ultimately, he was not forgiven."

What poppycock is this?

His debt was cancelled but the master is sovereign. He can give and take away. He can revoke.

Your response is clearly a willful turning of a blind eye to scripture. This parable clashes with your sensibilities hence your absurd retelling of what Jesus was teaching in this parable.

I also do not like the outcome of this parable but I have the intellectual honesty to accept it as written.

I shudder to think what you would do the the Parable of the Lost Son.

"The human father did not have infallibly?"

"The prodigal son came back asking to be like a slave to his father?"

How would you rewrite this parable?

I don't rewrite parables. I simply read them in CONTEXT. Once again, the parable demonstrates the mercy of the Lord who is willing to forgive, but ultimately, wicked, unforgiving hearts (which do not represent those who are born of God) can expect no forgiveness. The master in the parable cancelled the debt of his wicked servant (just as our sin debt was paid in full and cancelled at the cross). You seemed to have only isolated the part of the parable that you wanted to hear and discarded the rest.

In regard to the prodigal son, again CONTEXT. All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." Those who believe that salvation can be lost will use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive AGAIN" foreshadows the "born AGAIN" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually.

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found. (NASB)

 

[studier]

When faced with the truth of people falling away from the faith, departing from the faith, etc etc…people who believe in the doctrine of the impossibility of apostasy typically says “he/she never had faith” or “he/she was never truly saved to begin with”

But….

That means it’s entirely possible for someone to believe they are saved but not be…

How comforting is that?

I wonder if these people would apply that same line of reasoning with themselves? Or are they the exception to it? I wonder how consistent they would be? If they themselves depart, would they say they were never saved?

If so, then when would they know for sure???

Are any of them absolutely, positively certain without a doubt they are saved at this very moment???

Of course they’d say yes…

But…

If any of them depart from their faith, all their OSAS friends will say...

You were never saved to begin with!!

So, according to their view, it is possible for someone to believe they are saved but not be!!!

Not only were these individuals not Christians now, but they were never Christians in the first place, despite the fact that in the past these people did everything that current devoted believers of OSAS will cite as proof of their own conversion!

It can be challenging for individuals to apply the same reasoning to themselves as they do to others. If someone who believes in OSAS were to depart from their faith, they might struggle with the question of whether they were ever truly saved themselves. This inconsistency can lead to confusion and doubt about their own salvation.

If someone departs from their faith, they may feel a loss of that assurance, leading to uncertainty about their own standing before God.

If someone who believes in OSAS were to depart from their faith, they might grapple with questions about their own salvation.

The ugly reality behind the supposed comfort of the doctrine of once saved always is It's supposed to provide believers with the assurance of salvation, but logically, it does the opposite. Those who live like faithful Christians, who sincerely (to every appearance) describe themselves as being children of God, can still fall away and thereby prove that they were never regenerated/saved at all. To be true and honest with their belief, no person who believes in OSAS would categorize anyone to be saved, as such an individual will prove their salvation to be genuine by dying to the faith.

So, how does it really work?

RE: Eternal Security

1. Cannot lose salvation.
   1. Cannot walk away.
      1. No human choice
         1. Commands have no imperatival force.
         2. Obedience optional.
   2. Can walk away but cannot refuse repentance.
      1. No human choice
         1. Commands have no imperatival force.
         2. Obedience optional.
   3. Can walk away & can refuse repentance.
      1. Saved but disciplined unto death – lose rewards.
         1. No human choice re: salvation
            1. Commands have imperatival force - only if mean lose rewards.
            2. Obedience optional re: salvation.
   4. Never saved.
      1. Human choice
         1. Never believed.
         2. Commands have imperatival force.
            1. Disobedience
            2. Obedience is not optional.
      2. God knows before granting to Christ – Doesn’t grant.
         1. God does not grant unbelievers to Christ.
      3. Cannot lose salvation – because never saved.
      4. So, cannot know if saved until the end.
2. Can lose salvation.
   1. Can and do walk away.
      1. Human choice
         1. Believe > Don’t believe.
         2. Saved > Lose salvation – because cannot lose what never had.
         3. Commands have imperatival force.
            1. Disobedience
            2. Obedience is not optional.
      2. God knows before granting to Christ – Grants
         1. God grants temporary believers to Christ.
      3. So, cannot know if saved until the end.
         1. Secure while obedient
   2. Can but do not walk away
      1. Human choice
         1. Believe > Believe.
         2. Commands have imperatival force.
            1. Obedience
            2. Obedience is not optional.
      2. God knows before granting to Christ – Grants
         1. God grants abiding believers to Christ.
      3. So, can or cannot know if saved until the end?
         1. Secure in obedience

Or???