THE NIV EXPOSED

[karuna]

Re: To Karuna

Are you trying to be argumentative or cute?

Your argument, that we couldn't tell Bible versions apart immediately, was dishonest. Nobody was talking about doing it immediately. It needed to be called out for what it was. I personally think we should be willing to devote as much time as necessary to an issue like this.

Jesus said that you could tell a bad man from a godly one. Paul evidently thought so, or else why the qualifications set forth in Timothy if they could not be ascertained?

But the people you're asking to judge men can't judge Bibles, by your argument. Who can't tell Bibles apart but can tell dead men apart?

Anyone can judge.

I agree, of course. We are also able to judge the quality of Bibles.

God often uses evil and secular people to judge temporally. He NEVER uses such people to spread the Gospel! See Acts 16: 16-19 for an example.

Nothing in this passage indicates that Paul was annoyed because she was trying to spreading the gospel. He let her do it for many days, the Bible says, before he became annoyed. I trust that within those many days, at least someone heard her words before she was finally rebuked. Jesus did something similar:

In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, "Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!" "Be quiet!" Jesus said sternly. "Come out of him!" Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him.

Is Jesus not the Holy One of God? Regardless of the source, the words were true.

 

[Shwagga]

The King James Version are those manuscripts that was translated. Yes, the Bible has been torn and burned down through the centuries but my God is able to preserved His Perfect Word.

I am not trying to insult you but, you are not open to simple facts. To answer my question, yes the original languages preserved in so many-thousands of manuscripts are of more value then the KJV and I don't know how you can argue against that. The KJV is a commentary just as much as any other translation, every translation has a bias in some way or another and no translation is "perfect".

My point with saying "Jehovah is not a word", is simply just to point out one of the many of mistakes the KJV actually has.

 

[karuna]

I am not saved because I only read the KJV? wow.

You misunderstood. You said that the NIV:

TAKES AWAY SALVATION IN JESUS CHRIST

I quoted a verse from the NIV saying:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

If this verse doesn't describe how you're saved, since the NIV has taken out salvation in Christ, then how are you saved?

 

[kyng_james]

By the way, I am not here to argue repeatedly but to prove what is hidden. I am not here to be "holier than thou".
2 Peter 3:17-18 (King James Version)

17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, (BEWARE) lest ye also, (being led away) with the ERROR of the wicked, FALL from your own 'stedfastness.'

18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

In verse 18, we are given the simple commandment, "grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord." It is evident from the warning in verse 17, that obedience to this commandment will keep us from "BEING LED AWAY WITH ERROR" that will cause us to "FALL FROM OUR OWN STEADFASTNESS."

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (King James Version)

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

WARNING: Some King James Versions with this verse that says "thorougly" is wrong. The corrected word translated is "throughly".

In 2 Timothy3:16, "reproof" implies the exposing of "ERROR" and conviction of sin.

 

[Shwagga]

I really pray that one day you can see the irony of that post.

 

[phil36]

WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHY ARE THE VERSES NOT THERE? TELL ME PLEASE. I'M AGAINST THE NIV BECAUSE IT TAKES AWAY THE TRINITY, IT TAKES AWAY SALVATION IN JESUS CHRIST, IT TAKES AWAY GOD'S WORD. A REAL NIV READER PLEASE EXPLAIN.

I have told you already if you would take the time to read my post.

Its very simple...

Phil

 

[machew]

I have seen people get saved, delivered, and healed when using a NIV Bible. I think the error that we make is assuming that any of our English Bibles are perfect, and that they need to be 100% intact to the original language in order for the Holy Spirit to still be able to speak His Word to the hearts of the people. Even if we did have a "perfect" English version, without the Holy Spirit it would mean absolutely nothing because it is the Holy Spirit that breaths life on to the pages of scriptures, not perfect wording, as if God needed everything to be perfect to speak to us. The world around us is evidence enough that He doesn't need perfect conditions in order to speak to us. I think this whole discussion was started because of fear of deception. Whenever we start a discussion based on the fear of deception, we actually empower the spirit of fear even more in our community. This means we empower the enemy even more, and unintentionally spread fear to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Now if someone wrote a Bible that added stuff telling us to worship the devil, or to practice occult arts, this would obviously be an error worth warning about. I see nothing of the sort in the NIV. Over many years, countless people have been saved just by reading a NIV bible. The Bible tells us that good fruit only comes from good trees, and bad fruit can only come from bad trees. Assuming you believe that the NIV is "the devil's book," then it would mean the devil is releasing people from his clutches to receive Jesus into their life as their Lord and Savior. But Jesus told us clearly that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. So it is not the devil's book but actually a Bible that the Holy Spirit breaths life on, and that in my opinion, makes it a valid English translation.

Blessings,

Machew

 

[kyng_james]

You misunderstood. You said that the NIV:



I quoted a verse from the NIV saying:



If this verse doesn't describe how you're saved, since the NIV has taken out salvation in Christ, then how are you saved?

John 3:16 (King James Version)

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The corrected version. Salvation Karuna, is the heart of the believer. You can memorize the whole Bible and still not be saved because it is only head knowlege and not a heart knowlege. Many people met with Christ theologically, but never met with the forgiven Christ.

Salvation is the heart of the believer Karuna, people are not lost just because they dont agree with the NIV, or does not understand the Bible. It is trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, nothing more nothing less. For by grace are ye saved through faith-Ephesians...not of works. The NIV does tampered with our Salvation. Proof you will find under the new thread-NIV TAMPERS WITH OUR SALVATION.

Your version: John 3:16 (New International Version)

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
and then adds a footnote that says "begotten son"?
No, no, no..that does not make up God's Word.

ACTS 8:37 KARUNA IS IN THE BIBLE BUT NOT IN THE N.I.V. TELL ME WHY? THAT ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT SALVATION VERSE WRITTEN IS NOT IN THE N.I.V BIBLE?

 

[karuna]

So, salvation rests on the difference between "only begotten" and "one and only"? I'll go to hell if I believe in God's "one and only" son?

 

[kyng_james]

As I said before Karuna if you are truly born again(John 3:3) you have nothing to worry about. The worry is the tampering of God's Word and people does not know the disguise Satan put on to be a replica of God's Word. It is nothing but counterfeit.
2 Corinthians 11:14 (King James Version)

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[machew]

So basically, just so you can be right, you are willing to discredit many people's salvation on here?

 

[kyng_james]

As I said before Karuna if you are truly born again(John 3:3) you have nothing to worry about. The worry is the tampering of God's Word and people does not know the disguise Satan put on to be a replica of God's Word. It is nothing but counterfeit.


John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, ...

John 3:16 (NIV) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, ...

d. They just keep on changing, and changing, and changing.

2 Corinthians 11:14 (King James Version)

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[kyng_james]

So basically, just so you can be right, you are willing to discredit many people's salvation on here?

The NIV discredits peoples Salvation sir. Read "NIV tampering with our Salvation" under the new thread here in the Bible discussions for proof.

 

[machew]

The only thing you have proven is that the King James Bible is different than the NIV, not that it is more correct.

 

[kyng_james]

The only thing you have proven is that the King James Bible is different than the NIV, not that it is more correct.

HOW BLATANT! Machew

2 Peter 1:19-21 (King James Version)

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

May I need to add to that? No. This is literal and proof that the King James Version is the correct Bible. "We have also a more sure word of prophecy."
That means that I know 100% that it is God's Word, and that anyone can know that it is.

 

[kyng_james]

Thankyou

I thank everyone for posting in this forum. May you be lead with the most upmost faith and truth. I am learning myself which is why I posted in these forums and would like to help others. I am young and have a desire to live for the Lord. I carry the truth so to all my critics if I am so prideful, then why am I telling others about the NIV that it is counterfeit. I thought pride would be "I know some things but Im a keep it to myself and go around knowing all things but leave that person empty", or go around puffing out my chest being holier than thou? Exposing error has no pride, unless you do it the wrong way. There is a right way to do it. You know the Bible says "when a man thinks he knows something, he knows nothing.

1 Corinthians 8

1Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

3But if any man love God, the same is known of him.


Galatians 6:3 (King James Version)

3For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Keep that in mind.
Thankyou to all who posted in this forum, and may we continue with charity(love).

 

[kyng_james]

The only thing you have proven is that the King James Bible is different than the NIV, not that it is more correct.

Thankyou Machew. For criticism and helping me to see that this can involve pride. I am not doing this in pride but when it does come to pride 'Let us hold back the "lifting of ourselves" and when IT COMES TO ATTACK THE KINGDOM OF HELL..LET US NOT HOLD BACK!'

Matthew 16:18 (King James Version)

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

LETS BE THAT SOLDIER!
2 Timothy 2:3-6 (King James Version)

3Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

4No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

 

[superdave5221]

Re: To Karuna

Your argument, that we couldn't tell Bible versions apart immediately, was dishonest. Nobody was talking about doing it immediately. It needed to be called out for what it was. I personally think we should be willing to devote as much time as necessary to an issue like this.

I used the term immediately because we, (you included), cannot determine what is a good (meaning correct) bible translation, based on our own knowlege and personal experience, no matter how much time we spend comparing versions. We must depend on bible scholars to witness for the history of the manuscripts, the correctness of the comparative methods used, and the most correct exegetical translation. Therefore, the credence of the committee members selected is of utmost importance.

But the people you're asking to judge men can't judge Bibles, by your argument. Who can't tell Bibles apart but can tell dead men apart?

We CAN tell them apart. But we do so based on the knowledge of biblical scholars and historians, both living and dead, who I would like to think have God's purposes and goals in mind. It is totally apparent that anyone who is a practicing homosexual, or any such sin, is not a godly person (see again 1 Cor 5).

I agree, of course. We are also able to judge the quality of Bibles.



Nothing in this passage indicates that Paul was annoyed because she was trying to spreading the gospel. He let her do it for many days, the Bible says, before he became annoyed. I trust that within those many days, at least someone heard her words before she was finally rebuked. Jesus did something similar:

Paul was annoyed because her constant interuptions were disrupting his teaching. God's messengers have never needed demons to testify for them. If Paul has allowed her to continue, people would have begun to think that she was one of them, and that demons were to be listened to for God's messages. Would you trust a demon to write your bible? If she was doing God's will, she would have been allowed to continue.


Is Jesus not the Holy One of God? Regardless of the source, the words were true.

Once again, should we allow demons to write bibles for us, because they speak the truth on occasion?

 

[Cleante]

Kyng James,

The NIV is closer to the original Greek in respect to John 3:13.

The Greek is - καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς, ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. John 3:13
The translation of the Greek literal word for word is - And no man has gone up into heaven except the one out of heaven having come down, the Son of Man. It does not say what the King James version says.

John 3:15 - "ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ἐν αὐτῷ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον."
Translation - That everyone believing in him may have eternal life.
Again, the NIV is more accurate. The original Greek does not mention any perishing.

John 3:16 μονογενῆ is the word in question here. Does it mean begotten son? It can, but more accurately it means "The only come into being one."

John 3:36 "ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον: ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν, ἀλλ' ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μένει ἐπ' αὐτόν. "
Translation - "The one believing in the Son has life eternal; but the one disobeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." Again, the NIV is more accurate. However, there is a mistake. ἀπειθῶν does not mean to reject like the KJV and NIV says it does. It actually means to disobey.

I could go through each and every example you placed but that would be far too time consuming. I think I got my point across.

 

[karuna]

Re: To Karuna

I used the term immediately because we, (you included), cannot determine what is a good (meaning correct) bible translation, based on our own knowlege and personal experience, no matter how much time we spend comparing versions.

That's not what the word means, as far as I know. In fact, "immediately" is pretty much the opposite of "no matter how much time." Regardless, I disagree with the assertion - comparison with other translations is an excellent way to judge the quality of a translation. I've seen it in language classes, for instance, as the primary teaching method. It isn't the final criterion, of course, since we have good examples of bad translations which have persisted.

Therefore, the credence of the committee members selected is of utmost importance.

This entire conversation is proof that even armchair theologians have many more tools than trust.

Once again, should we allow demons to write bibles for us, because the speak the truth on occasion?

It's an error to toss out Bibles we already have because we have knowledge of particular sins of the translators. The errors in reasoning (and their theological consequences) are my concern, not the actual texts, so I'm not advocating any old or new translation in particular.

I'm fine with the doctrine of the KJV's supremacy, for instance, but not when it's predicated on the idea that none of the translators had hidden sins. I'm fine if someone says the NIV is faulty, but not because they hold to the doctrine that homosexuals are necessarily incapable of communicating a proper translation.

Rather, I would prefer to hear: these people who are homosexuals had an agenda and we can see evidence of this being a deciding factor in the following translations, etc. Not that "two homosexuals were involved," as if their mere involvement is sufficient. If demons can occasionally speak the truth, homosexuals can occasionally get translations right. The question is, did they?

Whether or not the ideas are correct, the arguments used to encourage them are lazy and, in the end, dangerous. I don't want new translations - I want better arguments about old ones.