The main reason there can never be true unity between Catholics and Christians
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Lol, yeah, I'm a guy, not a girl, Brother David. But I appreciate the kindness. Thank you and God Bless you for it.
These are the verses pertaining to Priesthood/Offering, RA:
Rom 15:16 "to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit."
Mal 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun, even to its going down,
My name shall be great among the Gentiles;
In every place incense shall be offered to My name,
And a pure offering;
For My name shall be great among the nations,”
Says the Lord of hosts."
By the way, no one believes that Jesus dies again at every Mass. That's totally false.
What is true is that we believe the Blood of Christ is made present on the Altar.
This Precious Blood is then offered to God. This link from CA explains it well.
"The Catholic position
The Church teaches that the Mass is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary. It does not teach that the Mass is a re-crucifixion of Christ, who does not suffer and die again in the Mass.
Yet, it is more than just a memorial service. John A. O’Brien, writing in The Faith of Millions, said, “On the cross Christ really shed his blood and was really slain; in the Mass, however, there is no real shedding of blood, no real death; but the separate consecration of the bread and of the wine symbolizes the separation of the body and blood of Christ and thus symbolizes his death upon the cross. The Mass is the renewal and perpetuation of the sacrifice of the cross in the sense that it offers [Jesus] anew to God . . . and thus commemorates the sacrifice of the cross, reenacts it symbolically and mystically, and applies the fruits of Christ’s death upon the cross to individual human souls. All the efficacy of the Mass is derived, therefore, from the sacrifice of Calvary” (306)."
https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-institution-of-the-mass
God Bless.
These are the verses pertaining to Priesthood/Offering, RA:
Rom 15:16 "to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit."
Mal 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun, even to its going down,
My name shall be great among the Gentiles;
In every place incense shall be offered to My name,
And a pure offering;
For My name shall be great among the nations,”
Says the Lord of hosts."
By the way, no one believes that Jesus dies again at every Mass. That's totally false.
What is true is that we believe the Blood of Christ is made present on the Altar.
This Precious Blood is then offered to God. This link from CA explains it well.
"The Catholic position
The Church teaches that the Mass is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary. It does not teach that the Mass is a re-crucifixion of Christ, who does not suffer and die again in the Mass.
Yet, it is more than just a memorial service. John A. O’Brien, writing in The Faith of Millions, said, “On the cross Christ really shed his blood and was really slain; in the Mass, however, there is no real shedding of blood, no real death; but the separate consecration of the bread and of the wine symbolizes the separation of the body and blood of Christ and thus symbolizes his death upon the cross. The Mass is the renewal and perpetuation of the sacrifice of the cross in the sense that it offers [Jesus] anew to God . . . and thus commemorates the sacrifice of the cross, reenacts it symbolically and mystically, and applies the fruits of Christ’s death upon the cross to individual human souls. All the efficacy of the Mass is derived, therefore, from the sacrifice of Calvary” (306)."
https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-institution-of-the-mass
God Bless.
That has no place in the Christian Bible.
God knows the suffering and sacrifice of His Son Christ. we have no authority to..."offer".
Also, He knows that the rcc injects idols into the mix before our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Though the Christian Bible says....no one can come to the Father but by Me..... The rcc priest is no exception.
Even a violation of a commandment...thou shall have no other gods before me. ...yet the priest and others are interlopers in surrogate of Christ.
The rcc is clearly referred to in Revelation.
God knows the suffering and sacrifice of His Son Christ. we have no authority to..."offer".
Also, He knows that the rcc injects idols into the mix before our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Though the Christian Bible says....no one can come to the Father but by Me..... The rcc priest is no exception.
Even a violation of a commandment...thou shall have no other gods before me. ...yet the priest and others are interlopers in surrogate of Christ.
The rcc is clearly referred to in Revelation.
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C
Yes, I know, I am of a Catholic heritage. I‘m not going to bag them though, because that would be hypocritical of me since I believed in the Catholic Way, was enslaved by it if you like, for the first 30 years, more or less, of my life. I was also enslaved by my sinful nature for the first 35 years of my life. It would be hypocritical for me to condemn anyone being held by either of those enslavements.
Jesus delivered me from man derived religion, and from the world. I would have still been directly influenced by them, and under their ‘spell’ if it wasn’t for Him. Therefore I have no bragging rights, I can’t claim to have saved myself in anyway, and I have no right to condemn anyone that is under similar enslavements. Indeed, I need rather to focus on removing the log from my own eye, and that’s a full time and never ending job!
Jesus delivered me from man derived religion, and from the world. I would have still been directly influenced by them, and under their ‘spell’ if it wasn’t for Him. Therefore I have no bragging rights, I can’t claim to have saved myself in anyway, and I have no right to condemn anyone that is under similar enslavements. Indeed, I need rather to focus on removing the log from my own eye, and that’s a full time and never ending job!
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And is sacrificed time after time in the mass; unlike the true Jesus who died once for sins.
I'm not sure you grasp the full significance of this. In Catholicism, Jesus' sacrifice wasn't sufficient. Their Jesus has to continue to be sacrificed over and over. Those who receive the mass supposedly receive the "grace" necessary to continue being in Christ. The priest says some magic words and transforms the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Jesus. When a Catholic receives the mass they're literally eating His flesh and drinking His blood (in their minds at least).
This is not the same Jesus of the Bible who made His sacrifice for sins once then sat down at the right hand of the Father. On the cross He said: "It is finished!"
I'm not sure you grasp the full significance of this. In Catholicism, Jesus' sacrifice wasn't sufficient. Their Jesus has to continue to be sacrificed over and over. Those who receive the mass supposedly receive the "grace" necessary to continue being in Christ. The priest says some magic words and transforms the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Jesus. When a Catholic receives the mass they're literally eating His flesh and drinking His blood (in their minds at least).
This is not the same Jesus of the Bible who made His sacrifice for sins once then sat down at the right hand of the Father. On the cross He said: "It is finished!"
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Did you read the 2 Verses I quoted? St. Paul says in Romans 15:16 that he ministers as a Priest the Gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. This "offering of the Gentiles" is a reference to Malachi 1:11. In the New Covenant, God prophesies, Israel will not make any offering to Him, whereas in every Gentile Nation, the Lord's Name will be Great, and a Pure Offering, with Incense, will be offered to His Majesty. This is a prophesy of the Mass. There are 300 K+ Masses every day.
"During the Last Supper, the Lord said to his disciples, “Do this in memory of me.” In Greek, this statement reads, “Touto poieite eis tan eman anamnesin.” There are two.aspects of this phrase that deserve consideration. For one, the phrase touto poieite can be translated as do this or as offer this. In the Old Testament, God commands the Israelites “you shall offer (poieseis) upon the altar two lambs” (Ex. 29:38). This use of poiein is translated as offer this or sacrifice this over seventy times in the Old Testament. So the same word that is used for the sacrifice under the Old Covenant is used for the sacrifice of the Mass in the New." https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-the-mass-a-sacrifice So it is Christ Himself who commanded His Apostles to offer His Body and Blood in remembrance of Him.
The purpose of the Mass is to pray for God's Blessings upon the world and the forgiveness of the sins we and the world goes on committing. When Sodom was sinning, Abraham interceded for them, and God said if He found 10 righteous men, He would spare that wicked city for their sake. This is what men of God should do, offer the Blood of Jesus to the Father, and plead for God's Mercy.
God Bless.
"During the Last Supper, the Lord said to his disciples, “Do this in memory of me.” In Greek, this statement reads, “Touto poieite eis tan eman anamnesin.” There are two.aspects of this phrase that deserve consideration. For one, the phrase touto poieite can be translated as do this or as offer this. In the Old Testament, God commands the Israelites “you shall offer (poieseis) upon the altar two lambs” (Ex. 29:38). This use of poiein is translated as offer this or sacrifice this over seventy times in the Old Testament. So the same word that is used for the sacrifice under the Old Covenant is used for the sacrifice of the Mass in the New." https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-the-mass-a-sacrifice So it is Christ Himself who commanded His Apostles to offer His Body and Blood in remembrance of Him.
The purpose of the Mass is to pray for God's Blessings upon the world and the forgiveness of the sins we and the world goes on committing. When Sodom was sinning, Abraham interceded for them, and God said if He found 10 righteous men, He would spare that wicked city for their sake. This is what men of God should do, offer the Blood of Jesus to the Father, and plead for God's Mercy.
God Bless.
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When We All Get To Heaven
GodTube Staff
"When We All Get to Heaven" is a Christian hymn written by Eliza Hewitt in 1898. Hewitt praises the wondrous love of Jesus and looks to the day we will all be reunited in the kingdom of heaven. Learn more about her courageous story and the inspirational lyrics of this hymn below!
1 Sing the wondrous love of Jesus,
sing his mercy and his grace;
in the mansions bright and blessed
he'll prepare for us a place.
Refrain:
When we all get to heaven,
what a day of rejoicing that will be!
When we all see Jesus
we'll sing and shout the victory.
2 While we walk the pilgrim pathway
clouds will overspread the sky,
but when traveling days are over,
not a shadow, not a sigh. [Refrain]
3 Let us then be true and faithful,
trusting, serving every day;
just one glimpse of Him in glory
will the toils of life repay. [Refrain]
Every time i see the title of this thread i am taken back to a small church . I hear the piano , maybe a slight bit of honky tonk . See the old folks sweet memories !
GodTube Staff
"When We All Get to Heaven" is a Christian hymn written by Eliza Hewitt in 1898. Hewitt praises the wondrous love of Jesus and looks to the day we will all be reunited in the kingdom of heaven. Learn more about her courageous story and the inspirational lyrics of this hymn below!
1 Sing the wondrous love of Jesus,
sing his mercy and his grace;
in the mansions bright and blessed
he'll prepare for us a place.
Refrain:
When we all get to heaven,
what a day of rejoicing that will be!
When we all see Jesus
we'll sing and shout the victory.
2 While we walk the pilgrim pathway
clouds will overspread the sky,
but when traveling days are over,
not a shadow, not a sigh. [Refrain]
3 Let us then be true and faithful,
trusting, serving every day;
just one glimpse of Him in glory
will the toils of life repay. [Refrain]
Every time i see the title of this thread i am taken back to a small church . I hear the piano , maybe a slight bit of honky tonk . See the old folks sweet memories !
Christ's Apostles were commanded to do so by the Lord Himself. The Greek words usually translated "Do this in remembrance of Me" can also be rendered "Offer this as My Memorial Offering". St. Paul says as often as Holy Communion is celebrated, the Church proclaims the Lord's Death until He comes. That means we are commanded to offer the Memorial Offering of the Lord's Body and Blood till He returns.
"The Eucharist is a true sacrifice, not just a commemorative meal, as “Bible Christians” insist. The first Christians knew that it was a sacrifice and proclaimed this in their writings. They recognized the sacrificial character of Jesus’ instruction, “Do this in remembrance of me” (Touto poieite tan eman anamnasin; Luke 22:19, 1 Cor. 11:24–25), which is better translated, “Offer this as my memorial offering.”
Thus, Protestant early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly writes that in the early Church “the Eucharist was regarded as the distinctively Christian sacrifice. . . . Malachi’s prediction (1:10–11) that the Lord would reject Jewish sacrifices and instead would have ‘a pure offering’ made to him by the Gentiles in every place was seized upon by Christians as a prophecy of the Eucharist. The Didache indeed actually applies the term thusia, or sacrifice, to the Eucharist.
“It was natural for early Christians to think of the Eucharist as a sacrifice. The fulfillment of prophecy demanded a solemn Christian offering, and the rite itself was wrapped in the sacrificial atmosphere with which our Lord invested the Last Supper. The words of institution, ‘Do this’ (touto poieite), must have been charged with sacrificial overtones for second-century ears; Justin at any rate understood them to mean, ‘Offer this.’ . . . The bread and wine, moreover, are offered ‘for a memorial (eis anamnasin) of the passion,’ a phrase which in view of his identification of them with the Lord’s body and blood implies much more than an act of purely spiritual recollection” (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [Full Reference], 196–7)."
Taken from: https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-sacrifice-of-the-mass
God Bless.
"The Eucharist is a true sacrifice, not just a commemorative meal, as “Bible Christians” insist. The first Christians knew that it was a sacrifice and proclaimed this in their writings. They recognized the sacrificial character of Jesus’ instruction, “Do this in remembrance of me” (Touto poieite tan eman anamnasin; Luke 22:19, 1 Cor. 11:24–25), which is better translated, “Offer this as my memorial offering.”
Thus, Protestant early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly writes that in the early Church “the Eucharist was regarded as the distinctively Christian sacrifice. . . . Malachi’s prediction (1:10–11) that the Lord would reject Jewish sacrifices and instead would have ‘a pure offering’ made to him by the Gentiles in every place was seized upon by Christians as a prophecy of the Eucharist. The Didache indeed actually applies the term thusia, or sacrifice, to the Eucharist.
“It was natural for early Christians to think of the Eucharist as a sacrifice. The fulfillment of prophecy demanded a solemn Christian offering, and the rite itself was wrapped in the sacrificial atmosphere with which our Lord invested the Last Supper. The words of institution, ‘Do this’ (touto poieite), must have been charged with sacrificial overtones for second-century ears; Justin at any rate understood them to mean, ‘Offer this.’ . . . The bread and wine, moreover, are offered ‘for a memorial (eis anamnasin) of the passion,’ a phrase which in view of his identification of them with the Lord’s body and blood implies much more than an act of purely spiritual recollection” (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [Full Reference], 196–7)."
Taken from: https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-sacrifice-of-the-mass
God Bless.
C
A hypocrite is one who does the things they condemn. Present tense.
Your definition makes every single apostle a hypocrite.
The dictionary definition is preferable by far
Your definition makes every single apostle a hypocrite.
The dictionary definition is preferable by far
There are people here, including me, whose house is in some form of disarray. They need to work out and work on their own flaws before telling anyone else they should be working on theirs.
It’s one thing to bait someone into an argument, and another thing to offer a gracious yet righteous explanation or difference of opinion. I can’t remember any incident where Jesus or an apostle baited anyone into an argument.
Yes, Roman Catholicism has many rubbishy practices, but so have other denominations and religious organisations and groups that I have personally experienced.
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C
I apologise for the way this discussion was raised.
However, being a Catholic that eventually became a Christian by the grace of our God, there’s no way around softening the blow that much of what has been said by the detractors of Roman Catholicism here, is correct. But there’s similar problems of self determined religious observances and repetitions in all denominations and religions. All I can offer to anyone is to put aside their religious traditions for a while, and with honest sincerity ask God to reveal the truth about Christianity to them. He will reveal Himself to those that are humble enough to question their own religious background and understanding.
However, being a Catholic that eventually became a Christian by the grace of our God, there’s no way around softening the blow that much of what has been said by the detractors of Roman Catholicism here, is correct. But there’s similar problems of self determined religious observances and repetitions in all denominations and religions. All I can offer to anyone is to put aside their religious traditions for a while, and with honest sincerity ask God to reveal the truth about Christianity to them. He will reveal Himself to those that are humble enough to question their own religious background and understanding.
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