The main reason there can never be true unity between Catholics and Christians

[ResidentAlien]

The common ground I was thinking about is when you are conversing with an individual.

As the title of this thread says, there's one huge reason Catholics and Christians can never have true fellowship in the Lord: We believe in two different Jesuses. How do you begin to have common ground when the very fundamental thing that defines each are as uncommon as it gets? You can "share" with each other till the cows come home but it's pointless. Either Christians have to adopt the Catholic Jesus or vice versa; it'll never happen.

 

[Jackson123]

It's called the Eucharist and transubstantiation. If the Jesus a Catholic trusts in is the Jesus who Catholic clerics all over the world claim to manifest in a piece of bread, they don't know the true Jesus; that is, the Jesus who was sacrificed once for all. How can there be fellowship between a false Jesus and the true One? There can no more be true unity than there can be between a Christian and Muslim who believes Jesus isn't the Son of God. One Jesus is true, the other false.

Catholics are even contradicted by their own supposed leader, Peter: "For Christ also suffered once to atone for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring you to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit,"—1 Peter 3:18

And Hebrews 10:12 says: "But He Himself, having offered one sacrifice for sins forever, He sat down at the right hand of God,"

This is a good video on the subject (21 min.)

Catholic and Christian is like Hindu and Buddha, they worship different God

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

The Catholic Church is not alone in believing in the Real Presence of Jesus, which as we saw here: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...holy-communion-as-literal-or-symbolic.205047/ is based on the Word of Jesus and that of Apostle Paul.

Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia: "There are a number of Christian denominations that teach that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, including Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, the Church of the East, the Moravian Church, Lutheranism, Anglicanism, Methodism, Irvingism and Reformed Christianity.[1][2][3][4][5][6] The differences in the teachings of these Churches primarily concern "the mode of Christ's presence in the Lord’s Supper".[1]

The Real Presence is rejected or interpreted in light of "remembrance" (per certain translations of the New Testament) by other Protestants, including General Baptists,[7][8] Anabaptists,[9] the Plymouth Brethren,[9] some non-denominational Christian churches,[10] as well as those identifying with liberal Christianity and segments of the Restoration Movement[9] such as Jehovah's Witnesses.[11][12][13][14]

Efforts at mutual understanding of the range of beliefs by these Churches led in the 1980s to consultations on Baptism, Eucharist and Ministry by the World Council of Churches." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_presence_of_Christ_in_the_Eucharist

And regardless of who is right in this particular doctrine/theology, neither group believes in "another Jesus" just because of this.

 

[HeIsHere]

As the title of this thread says, there's one huge reason Catholics and Christians can never have true fellowship in the Lord: We believe in two different Jesuses. How do you begin to have common ground when the very fundamental thing that defines each are as uncommon as it gets? You can "share" with each other till the cows come home but it's pointless. Either Christians have to adopt the Catholic Jesus or vice versa; it'll never happen.

Were you formerly Catholic?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Were you formerly Catholic?

That's off-topic and irrelevant really. I don't mind answering that question but first I'd like to hear why you think it's relevant.

 

[kaylagrl]

Well-written and nice spirit, Kaylagirl . . .

Thank you, sometimes I just see so many lost in the world and it seems the devil keeps us distracted so we don't try to reach them. We need to see beyond what church name is over the door. That's not what saves us. Jesus saves.

 

[kaylagrl]

Catholic and Christian is like Hindu and Buddha, they worship different God

There are things Catholics teach that I disagree with, but they do not believe in a different God.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism, or Christian Unity, was concerned with trying to find a way for the churches to be re-united in God's time, in the preaching of the Gospel to every creature, which God called us to do: "

"1. The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council. Christ the Lord founded one Church and one Church only. However, many Christian communions present themselves to men as the true inheritors of Jesus Christ; all indeed profess to be followers of the Lord but differ in mind and go their different ways, as if Christ Himself were divided.(1) Such division openly contradicts the will of Christ, scandalizes the world, and damages the holy cause of preaching the Gospel to every creature.

But the Lord of Ages wisely and patiently follows out the plan of grace on our behalf, sinners that we are. In recent times more than ever before, He has been rousing divided Christians to remorse over their divisions and to a longing for unity. Everywhere large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace, and among our separated brethren also there increases from day to day the movement, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the restoration of unity among all Christians. This movement toward unity is called "ecumenical." Those belong to it who invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, doing this not merely as individuals but also as corporate bodies. For almost everyone regards the body in which he has heard the Gospel as his Church and indeed, God's Church. All however, though in different ways, long for the one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and set forth into the world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God."

https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist...ecree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

Since all Christians, and only Christians, "invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior", it's clear there is no "different God".

 

[ResidentAlien]

The Catholic Jesus is a wafer, a sun symbol. They adore it, calling it "My Lord and my God." There's a reason Constantine made the Saturday Sabbath illegal and forced people to observe Sunday—the "Venerable (honorable) Day of the Sun."

 

[ChristianTonyB]

It's called the Eucharist and transubstantiation. If the Jesus a Catholic trusts in is the Jesus who Catholic clerics all over the world claim to manifest in a piece of bread, they don't know the true Jesus; that is, the Jesus who was sacrificed once for all. How can there be fellowship between a false Jesus and the true One? There can no more be true unity than there can be between a Christian and Muslim who believes Jesus isn't the Son of God. One Jesus is true, the other false.

Catholics are even contradicted by their own supposed leader, Peter: "For Christ also suffered once to atone for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring you to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit,"—1 Peter 3:18

And Hebrews 10:12 says: "But He Himself, having offered one sacrifice for sins forever, He sat down at the right hand of God,"

This is a good video on the subject (21 min.)

I don't see the benefit of posts like this. All it will do will cause contention. If we just focus on the Lord Jesus, and get our own house in order, we'll be doing well. Can't we just comment on positive things, and in particular on how good the Lord Jesus is.

I'm sure all of us lack knowledge in some shape or form, which is why we don't totally rely on our own understanding. Most of us won't react favourably to being brow beaten into someone else's belief or opinion. If we are asked for our opinion on a belief, then fair enough providing that person isn't trying to bait us into an argument.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I don't see the benefit of posts like this.

Of course you don't.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

Of course you don't.

What do you mean?

 

[ResidentAlien]

What do you mean?

I mean if you don't see the point of calling out wolves who are intent on ravaging the flock then I certainly won't be able to explain it to you. Heaven forbid we should cause a little contention.

 

[Runningman]

It's called the Eucharist and transubstantiation. If the Jesus a Catholic trusts in is the Jesus who Catholic clerics all over the world claim to manifest in a piece of bread, they don't know the true Jesus; that is, the Jesus who was sacrificed once for all. How can there be fellowship between a false Jesus and the true One? There can no more be true unity than there can be between a Christian and Muslim who believes Jesus isn't the Son of God. One Jesus is true, the other false.

Catholics are even contradicted by their own supposed leader, Peter: "For Christ also suffered once to atone for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring you to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit,"—1 Peter 3:18

And Hebrews 10:12 says: "But He Himself, having offered one sacrifice for sins forever, He sat down at the right hand of God,"

This is a good video on the subject (21 min.)

This is like saying if you misunderstand anything Jesus said, something His own disciples occasionally did, then you don’t know the true Jesus. Now suddenly no one knows Jesus.

Jesus said many things that aren’t totally clear because He spoke in parables and had to occasionally explain them to His disciples like they were children. Protestants and Catholics both have issues understanding everything Jesus said.

There is a specific way to know Jesus and it’s explained briefly in 1 John 2:

1 John 2:3,4
3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You know Jesus if you keep His commandments. If Jesus was clear about anything, He was clear about His commandments so they could be easily recognized and there are actually a lot of things He commanded if you want to get technical.

Jesus gave hundreds of commmands. There are sources online that quantify His commands.

 

[Beckie]

https://thedialog.org/catechetical-corner/muslims-and-catholics-we-believe-in-the-same-god/

Interesting article if anyone cares to read,. If you do so please keep in mind the Scriptures .. Catholic and Muslims can set around the camp fire singing Kumbaya as they do worship the same god by their own words.

The books of John are a short read, below are just a few verses . Should feelings of love and warmth be elevated above Scripture?

1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Do the muslems believe Jesus is God ?

A snippet from the article...The paragraph on Muslims begins with a declaration that the church “regards with esteem” Muslims, and it goes on to highlight our shared faith in God, who we both affirm as One, merciful and Creator; Muslims’ praiseworthy endeavor to submit themselves to God; their reverence for Jesus and Mary; and their commitment to prayer, fasting and almsgiving.
Notice also how Mary and Jesus are separated from Godin the verbiage .

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

[ResidentAlien]

this is like saying if you misunderstand anything Jesus said, something His own disciples occasionally did, then you don’t know the true Jesus. Now suddenly no one knows Jesus.

This isn't about misunderstanding something Jesus said, it's about a different Jesus entirely. Let me ask you: Muslims say Jesus isn't the Son of God. Do they simply misunderstand Yahweh's word or is the Jesus they proclaim a different Jesus?

If it were a simple matter of something like who wrote the book of Hebrews then I would say no problem, we can disagree and still be brothers and sisters. But we're talking about a different Jesus, the very foundation of our faith.

"And what accord has Christ with Belial?"—2 Corinthians 6:15

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."—Galatians 1:8

 

[Beckie]

Evil can not be appeased. It is a cancer

 

[ChristianTonyB]

I mean if you don't see the point of calling out wolves who are intent on ravaging the flock then I certainly won't be able to explain it to you. Heaven forbid we should cause a little contention.

You are inciting contention too often RA, and in my opinion being a hindrance, not a help to the Lord. I agree with your inference, but I'm not going to bash people's ears with it. I trust God that He will lead those that are honestly looking for truth, to a rightful understanding. I'm a living example of this. I was born into a Catholic heritage, and by the grace of God became a Christian at age 35. No denomination of any kind influenced that outcome, and no one brow beat me into the conclusion that Catholicism isn't Christianity (neither is any other denomination for that matter), the Holy Spirit led me into that understanding through scripture and experiences.

 

[ResidentAlien]

You are inciting contention too often RA, and in my opinion being a hindrance, not a help to the Lord. I agree with your inference, but I'm not going to bash people's ears with it. I trust God that He will lead those that are honestly looking for truth, to a rightful understanding. I'm a living example of this. I was born into a Catholic heritage, and by the grace of God became a Christian at age 35. No denomination of any kind influenced that outcome, and no one brow beat me into the conclusion that Catholicism isn't Christianity (neither is any other denomination for that matter), the Holy Spirit led me into that understanding through scripture and experiences.

The truth hurts sometimes. I'm not intentionally bashing anyone but apparently those who don't want to hear the truth perceive it as bashing. I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[ChristianTonyB]

The truth hurts sometimes. I'm not intentionally bashing anyone but apparently those who don't want to hear the truth perceive it as bashing. I'm sorry you feel that way.

It's not me you need to worry about. There's One that's far above you and me that is looking at what is being posted here, and how it is being said. You've got a contentious spirit dogging you that wants to argue, and it's dulling your effectiveness.

I'm disappointed that the convenors of this site aren't ensuring the guidelines for communication they have set, are being properly followed.