THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[John146]

I’ll take that as a no, you are an unrepentant open theist heretic. That, and you deny the biblical teachings of evidence of conversion and marks of false conversion. You’re in error and don’t think logically: there are sins that show one to be unconverted though professing salvation.

Reformed Theology isn’t fatalism, you’re simply showing more of your ignorance of what fatalism is and conflate it with a holy God and His ways which may well be hostility toward Him, Colossians 1:21.
Contrary to your capricious beliefs (a form of atheism) God knows every single detail of all future events, has disclosed to us the end of all things He has determined, will not be thwarted in His plan as all end according to His purpose, counsel and will exactly as He has decreed, all to His Glory, as He actually is God.

You loathe these facts and deem God unfair.

Fatalism is a metaphysical theory that all things are driven by an impersonal force. That isn’t the Reformed view. To the contrary this age is driven by God who has decreed whatsoever comes to pass, thus whatsoever He has determined as God isn’t impersonal, but is determined by a Triune Personal God who is just, holy, sovereign, kind, loving, and merciful. His determined plan is therefore not fatalism, it is all to His Glory.

okay, if you say so I guess it’s true. Btw, I’m still uncertain what open theists truly believe. You keep bringing it up. I simply take the Bible literally as much as possible.

 

[miknik5]

Amen.
(1 Cor 3)
"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor."

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

AMEN to that!

 

[DorothyMae]

Honestly this is this the first I have heard of lordship salvation no idea what it is really

It used to be “trust and obey” theology, but there are those who dislike the “obey” part and so invented a new term so they can put it down.

 

[cv5]

It used to be “trust and obey” theology, but there are those who dislike the “obey” part and so invented a new term so they can put it down.

Dr. Barnett explaining his view on Lordship salvation.

 

[Blain]

It used to be “trust and obey” theology, but there are those who dislike the “obey” part and so invented a new term so they can put it down.

Trust and obey? So basically what we are already called to do or is it a different form?

 

[cv5]

Trust and obey? So basically what we are already called to do or is it a different form?

We are called to believe and repent, and then walk in the newness of life thus granted for good works. All of the elements are by grace and grace alone, including any and all opportunities that God grants us for the expression of his will as regrds His kingdom.

(Eph 2:10)
For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

It's a complete package one cannot exist without the others.

 

[DorothyMae]

Trust and obey? So basically what we are already called to do or is it a different form?

I wasn’t addressing what we are to do. I was talking about the new derogatory label “Lordship theology” which is new.

 

[JohnR7]

I am waiting for your proof texting in favor of your "for rewards forsake grace" theory.

I am still waiting for you to ask a question about the Bible and not the teaching of man.

 

[JohnRH]

... in order to become a true Christian a person ... must also cease from sin or be willing to cease from sin in order to be saved ...

Right there is the problem with lordship salvation. How does an unsaved person "cease from sin" in order to become saved? The unsaved person hasn't become a new creature yet. In order to 'cease from sin', he must be born of God.

Anti-lordship salvation people (such as myself) agree that the unsaved sinner must recognize that Jesus is Lord in order for Him to become their Savior. That was true of the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailer - but that's not "lordship salvation".

Lordship salvation mixes up the freeness of salvation and who paid the full price for it, with the costliness of discipleship and who pays that cost.

 

[miknik5]

Right there is the problem with lordship salvation. How does an unsaved person "cease from sin" in order to become saved? The unsaved person hasn't become a new creature yet. In order to 'cease from sin', he must be born of God.

Anti-lordship salvation people (such as myself) agree that the unsaved sinner must recognize that Jesus is Lord in order for Him to become their Savior. That was true of the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailer - but that's not "lordship salvation".

Lordship salvation mixes up the freeness of salvation and who paid the full price for it, with the costliness of discipleship and who pays that cost.

What a great response...

 

[cv5]

Right there is the problem with lordship salvation. How does an unsaved person "cease from sin" in order to become saved? The unsaved person hasn't become a new creature yet. In order to 'cease from sin', he must be born of God.

Anti-lordship salvation people (such as myself) agree that the unsaved sinner must recognize that Jesus is Lord in order for Him to become their Savior. That was true of the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailer - but that's not "lordship salvation".

"Lordship salvation mixes up the freeness of salvation and who paid the full price for it, with the costliness of discipleship and who pays that cost"

Not necessarily. It depends on who you ask. I lean toward Lordship salvation myself, but then again I reject the heretical interpretations. The bottom line is that when you receive Jesus Messiah, you receive Him as Lord. Receiving him a Savior alone and then trotting off on your merry way, never to cross paths with Him again is absolutely inadequate as the Scripture makes perfectly clear time and time again.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Right there is the problem with lordship salvation. How does an unsaved person "cease from sin" in order to become saved?

"Turn away from sins and idols" = "cease from sin". Repentance is a TURNING AWAY from evil and a TURNING TO God and Christ.

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God (1 Thess 1:9)

And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts* brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. (Acts 19:18,19)

*Curious arts = magic, witchcraft and sorcery.

 

[Sudakar]

My claim 1,2,3... BIBLE verses!!!!

Faith without works is dead

The BIBLE says that, not my claim!!! NEVER said works save.

Works from a dead faith isn't works. Why?

Your faith isn't faith because you proclaim works based salvation.

 

[Sudakar]

Wrong. To the saved, good works are as natural as breathing, just like prayers, and are motivated by the Holy Spirit to begin with.....not the flesh. And they are done to please the One True God to Glorify Him. The unsaved do "good" works of themselves by themselves to glorify themselves, all of this being of the flesh.

Noah didn't build the ark of his own initiative. He did this mighty WORK by faith.

If you don't think that God is literally putting people to work after they are saved think again.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NKJV&quicksearch=labors&begin=47&end=73

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NKJV&quicksearch=labor&begin=47&end=73

You are confusing between works and works to prove you have saving faith. The latter is heresy.

 

[Sudakar]

I assume you speak English, I also assume you can read, comprehension not so much. My hand in glove straight out of the Bible so apparently God is pelsjdifjiefn or whatever you call it. Now you're outright lying. I said the opposite of what you are saying, I said works don't save.

The mods need to shut down this tread already. The OP argues with everyone that posts and lies about what they say when they answer. This thread is going no where.

Works not only fails to save but also fails to prove you have saving faith.

 

[Sudakar]

Yes and "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that we are saved by works, as some would presume. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith (James 2:14) but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

James talks about faith in one God and not about the faith in Christ's atonement which saves apart from works.

 

[Sudakar]

To which the OP is going to tell you you believe in works based faith. Quoted Scriptures, said works don't save, nope like a dog with a bone. I said we are saved by faith for good works, straight out the Bible, nope, you believe in works salvation. So it doesn't matter what you say. The OP is the only one on God's green earth, and this Mc Arthur fellow, only ones who have the truth. NOOO one else knows it. So why bother. If Gods own Word won't change his mind, nothing will.

"Works prove saving faith" theory eventually amounts to "works based salvation" theory.

 

[Sudakar]

No amount of works can save or even prove one’s salvation. If that’s the case then sin can prove one is not saved. That’s simply not true. Only the Lord knows who are tru saved by the seal of the Holy Spirit.

So you don't have the assurance you are saved?

 

[Sudakar]

That also does not answer the question. Is forgiving others a “work?”

Is forgiving others "faith"?

If you think your forgiveness proves you have saving faith, you aren't saved.

 

[Sudakar]

Amen.
(1 Cor 3)
"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor."

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If it was grace which worked through paul, how could the work become his labor let alone the reward be based on his labor?