The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

[Truth7t7]

More like you denounce our verses.
Going to fake " origins" is just one of your weak arguments.

I answer every claim you make, you pre-trib rapture in Revelation 14 in the sickle harvest, is nothing more than the last day resurrection and final judgement in God's wrath.

Just as pre-tribbers do the same with 1 Thess 4:15-17

Your living in a fairy tale of false claims that you haven't been answered, that's a real big Pinocchio's Nose Is Growing!

 

[Truth7t7]

The way I see eschatology is a wasteland of theology, really.

Its interesting to me but I flipflop on it back and forth. It has done so much damage to Christianity recently, ever since the 1800s the false predictions of Jesus' return has diminished the credibility of the Church. We lookin like straight bozos because of Harold Campings and the like!

Ive made a whole long post about it one time, going thru all the different eschatological views and the holes I find in them. NO SYSTEM is airtight, thats the problem.

Im with you on that btw, if you just go with the simple words of Jesus in the gospel, He comes back and judges people thats it. We need to just be ready for the return, HOWEVER it occurs. Thats whats more important.

The deceptive part on a literal Millennial Kingdom on earth is, many teach Jesus Christ is going to return and take a physical throne of David in Jerusalem, "Amongst Mortal Humans"?

Beware Of (The Man Of Sin/The Antichrist)!

Jesus Christ Warns Of (The Man Of Sin/The Antichrist) Seen Below, "Go Not Forth" "Believe It Not"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Evmur]

I will end response in conversation, you have been asked questions and refuse to engage in open dialogue on your belief, your eschatology is (False)

1. You have refused to acknowledge that Jesus Christ returns in fire, numerous amounts of scripture showing this fact, Luke 17:29-30, 2 Thess 1:7-8 examples

2 You refuse to answer the simple question of when the 5th Trump takes place in Rev 9:1-2, and the angel opens the bottomless pit

3. You have associated Hitler with the 1,000 years seen in Revelation 20:1-7

4. You teach that Jesus Christ is going to rule from Jerusalem (On This Earth) amongst mortal humans, Jesus Warned his followers against this teaching as seen in Matthew 24:23-27 "Go Not Forth" "Believe It Not" seen below

Jesus Christ Warns Of (The Man Of Sin/The Antichrist) Seen Below, "Go Not Forth" "Believe It Not"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I do not deny that He will return with fire upon the wicked, after Satan is loosed and deceives the nations once more they come once again against the camp of the saints and fire will fall upon them from heaven, that is after the 1, 000 years.

I also believe when He comes to gather us, not in fire but in clouds of glory He will destroy Antichrist and his armies with the breath of His mouth.

Hitler knew better than you [or the devil does] that there is to be 1, 000 year kingdom and he set out to destroy the Jews to whom the kingdom is promised.

It is Christ's 2nd coming which we are warned about, it will not be a secret coming as some are saying but every eye shall see Him. We are not to be misled to believe He has come back secretly to gather us in the wilderness or some other place.

I read your posts ... why you not read mine?

 

[Truth7t7]

... you didn't answer if the nations were no longer deceived, but no, we have to disagree amicably. I say there is to be a 1, 000 year reign of Christ on earth you say no.

Once again your claim is (False)

I clearly responded to (deceive the natoins) in Rev 20:3, in that they will be deceived to battle, will the games now start

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan in Rev 20:3, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[Truth7t7]

I do not deny that He will return with fire upon the wicked, after Satan is loosed and deceives the nations once more they come once again against the camp of the saints and fire will fall upon them from heaven, that is after the 1, 000 years.

I also believe when He comes to gather us, not in fire but in clouds of glory He will destroy Antichrist and his armies with the breath of His mouth.

Hitler knew better than you [or the devil does] that there is to be 1, 000 year kingdom and he set out to destroy the Jews to whom the kingdom is promised.

It is Christ's 2nd coming which we are warned about, it will not be a secret coming as some are saying but every eye shall see Him. We are not to be misled to believe He has come back secretly to gather us in the wilderness or some other place.

I read your posts ... why you not read mine?

Its Not A One Way Street In Discussion And Debate

You asked several questions in the past hours, I answered every one presented, now it's your turn.

You avoided answering my question below, I will try again.

We clearly see an angel opening the bottomless pit at the 5th Trump below, and that guy Abaddon/Apolloyon is released, when does that take place below?

Revelation 9:1-2 & 11-12
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

 

[Evmur]

Once again your claim is (False)

I clearly responded to (deceive the natoins) in Rev 20:3, in that they will be deceived to battle, will the games now start

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan in Rev 20:3, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

that is a mangle

 

[Truth7t7]

I do not deny that He will return with fire upon the wicked, after Satan is loosed and deceives the nations once more they come once again against the camp of the saints and fire will fall upon them from heaven, that is after the 1, 000 years.

I also believe when He comes to gather us, not in fire but in clouds of glory He will destroy Antichrist and his armies with the breath of His mouth.

Hitler knew better than you [or the devil does] that there is to be 1, 000 year kingdom and he set out to destroy the Jews to whom the kingdom is promised.

It is Christ's 2nd coming which we are warned about, it will not be a secret coming as some are saying but every eye shall see Him. We are not to be misled to believe He has come back secretly to gather us in the wilderness or some other place.

I read your posts ... why you not read mine?

Matt 24:29-30 Immediately After The Tribulation, (They Shall See The Son Of Man)

Yes You Deny That When Jesus Christ Appears, Reveals, Comes, Immediately After The Tribulation, That There Will Be Fire In Judgement, As Shown In Bold Red Below.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is Christ's 2nd coming which we are warned about, it will not be a secret coming as some are saying but every eye shall see Him. We are not to be misled to believe He has come back secretly to gather us in the wilderness or some other place.

Its your teaching Jesus Christ warned his followers about.

The deceptive part on a literal Millennial Kingdom on earth is, many teach Jesus Christ is going to return and take a physical throne of David in Jerusalem, "Amongst Mortal Humans"?

Beware Of (The Man Of Sin/The Antichrist)!

Jesus Christ Warns Of (The Man Of Sin/The Antichrist) Seen Below, "Go Not Forth" "Believe It Not"

(For There Shall Arise False Christs And False Prophets)

The Antichrist And False Prophet, Showing Signs And Wonders!

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Hevosmies]

The real key to the pre-trib rapture would be a VERSE that says Jesus is returning not once but twice!

 

[Truth7t7]

The real key to the pre-trib rapture would be a VERSE that says Jesus is returning not once but twice!

No Pre-Trib Rapture Found In Scripture, A Promotion Of John N Darby 1850's And Adulterer C.I. Scofield in his 1909 reference bible (A Lie)

Pre-Tribbers use the second coming and last day resurrection, and falsely claim it's a Pre-Trib rapture, I Thess 4:15-17 & 1 Cor 15:51-54 being prime examples.

 

[Runningman]

The real key to the pre-trib rapture would be a VERSE that says Jesus is returning not once but twice!

Definitely one of the single greatest flaws of pre-trib theology.

Without multiple returns of Jesus one has to accept that Jesus returns only a second time after the great tribulation to rapture the church.

There's no verse for Jesus returning more than once.

 

[Truth7t7]

that is a mangle

It's a mangle to you, because it destroys the false teachings in a Zionist 1,000 year kingdom on this earth at the return if Jesus Christ, that you in bias against presented truth, support and defend in error.

 

[Absolutely]

I think [pardon if I'm wrong] you agree that the great multitude which John saw in heaven dressed in white which no man could number were martyrs. John asked "who are they?" and was told "these are they who have come out of great tribulation ..."

Yes.

They are the 5 foolish virgins of mat 25.

They are martyred right away at the beginning of the gt.

 

[Absolutely]

The real key to the pre-trib rapture would be a VERSE that says Jesus is returning not once but twice!

Bingo!!!!!
You are the first postrib to open the postrib door of the impossible. My job is easy once one of you actually goes through that door.
You guys defend the impossible by ignoring verses and claim high ground.

Rev 14 is not the return on horses.

No brainer.

Post trib rapture is poorly thought out.

 

[Absolutely]

Definitely one of the single greatest flaws of pre-trib theology.

Without multiple returns of Jesus one has to accept that Jesus returns only a second time after the great tribulation to rapture the church.

There's no verse for Jesus returning more than once.

You can only fool yourself.

What is the point?

You actually think rev 19 HAS A MILLION MAN ARMY all on horses blackening the sky STARTING FROM HEAVEN...while a fake Jesus is sitting on a cloud all by himself with a sickle in rev 14 DURING THE GT ?...and foolishly pass that off as the same thing????
Not even close

How in the world could you invent that as a doctrine and pass that off as the same coming??????

Postrib rapturist need to wake up to what they are doing.
Read what happens to people who change revelation

 

[Absolutely]

Game

Set

Match

 

[Hevosmies]

Bingo!!!!!
You are the first postrib to open the postrib door of the impossible. My job is easy once one of you actually goes through that door.
You guys defend the impossible by ignoring verses and claim high ground.

Rev 14 is not the return on horses.

No brainer.

Post trib rapture is poorly thought out.

You really keep repeating that Revelation 14 while it says nothing about nothing lol. No resurrection mentioned.

This is why eschatology is such a theological wasteland, because folks reading too much into the book of Revelation. As someone already pointed out, there are as many opinions on the book of Revelation as there are Christians (ALL obviously claim the Holy Spirit revealed it to them. The classic)

 

[Absolutely]

I Invite postribs to open that door

 

[Absolutely]

You really keep repeating that Revelation 14 while it says nothing about nothing lol. No resurrection mentioned.

This is why eschatology is such a theological wasteland, because folks reading too much into the book of Revelation. As someone already pointed out, there are as many opinions on the book of Revelation as there are Christians (ALL obviously claim the Holy Spirit revealed it to them. The classic)

"""You really keep repeating that Revelation 14 while it says nothing about nothing lol. No resurrection mentioned."""

Bingo!!!!!!

You guys finally opened the door!!!

 

[Major]

You forget the part about Scofield abandoning his wife Leotine and two daughters Abigail & Helene in Kansas?

Scofield ran off to Dallas, pastoring a small church where he met Hettie Van Wart 17 years younger, he divorced Leotine and married Hettie, Scofield and Hettie produced the 1909 reference bible,while in the sin of (Adultery)

Scofield died in 1921 while remaining married to a woman Hettie Van Wart, while his wife Leotine lived (Adultery)

C I Scofield is a Corrupt Tree, and his 1909 reference bible is Corrupt Fruit

Matthew 7:16-18KJV
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

CI Scofield Find A Grave

Do you understand the meaning of confession and repentance.

And yes, what you said is true and it is also true that he was a heavy drinker.

Would you like to tell us all about YOUR past wrong choices in life so that we can pick you apart?????

Seems like I remember that Moses was a murder. Do we then reject the 1st 5 books of the Bible??????

Seems to me I remember that David was an adulterer, a liar, a murderer as well but God used him greatly.

What about Paul. He also was a murderer. Do we now remove the 50% of the New Test. that he wrote ?????

IS Moses, and David and Paul and many others also products of a corrupt tree??????

Your thesis is very flawed my friend.