The Gospel Demands Radical Sacrifice - David Platt

[lightbearer]

Faith is not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. Why do you think that Paul made a "distinction" between saved through FAITH and NOT WORKS in Ephesians 2:8,9 if faith is just another work like all other works?

To have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" and are produced "out of" faith which usually ends up being defined "as" faith by those who teach salvation by faith "plus works."

By choosing to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption to save us). Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. Faith is faith and works are works.

We have nothing to offer; including faith.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law in our hearts and mouths and minds) is the end of the law (written with ink and tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ. Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.

(Eph 2:8-9;Gal 2:20; Rom 10:6-8, 4; Deut 30:10-14; 2Co 3:3-5)

 

[mailmandan]

We have nothing to offer; including faith.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law in our hearts and mouths and minds) is the end of the law (written with ink and tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ. Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.

(Eph 2:8-9;Gal 2:20; Rom 10:6-8, 4; Deut 30:10-14; 2Co 3:3-5)

You started out right with Ephesians 2:8-9, but after you twisted the meaning of Romans 10:6-8, you ended up with salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”

 

[lightbearer]

You started out right with Ephesians 2:8-9, , you ended up with salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”

What work? Not I but Christ. For we are the Temple of GOD; the Body of Christ. It is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

but after you twisted the meaning of Romans 10:6-8

Nothing is twisted It states what it says in relation to it being quoted from Deut.

 

[lightbearer]

I see you are going to continue with the negative icons. ok I will play but How childish....

 

[mailmandan]

What work? Not I but Christ. For we are the Temple of GOD; the Body of Christ. It is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
Nothing is twisted It states what it says in relation to it being quoted from Deut.

God works in believers, but that still does not mean we are saved by works. I’ve seen people try to get around “not saved by works” by teaching we are saved by “these” works and just not “those” works. You added your own biased interpretation to what was quoted from Deuteronomy.

 

[mailmandan]

I see you are going to continue with the negative icons. ok I will play but How childish....

Apparently we are both childish then. I’m done if you’re done.

 

[beta]

No you posted to rise strife. You make accusations about things you know nothing about. As if you are GOD and have the right to condemn

You may have noticed that i don't answer people who make false accusations since they are ignorant of the true God of the Bible...seeing they follow the imposter from Rome. Yashua warned us not to be DECEIVED !

 

[mailmandan]

You may have noticed that i don't answer people who make false accusations since they are ignorant of the true God of the Bible...seeing they follow the imposter from Rome. Yashua warned us not to be DECEIVED !

Have you ever considered for just one second that maybe it’s you who is DECEIVED? Follow the imposter from Rome? Good grief.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Sabbath is of the LORD not pagan

Exactly. But these stupid rants against Sunday should be countered with equal rants against Saturday. All the days of the week are connected to pagan gods and goddesses, but these Sabbatarians make an issue about the day of the sun and forget that their day is the day of Saturn!

 

[Nehemiah6]

I won't ask you the same question you asked me because it is blatantly obvious you know NOTHING about the 'SABBATH of the LORD'. You are NOT looking at what GOD says but what comes from human understanding....which we are NOT to rely on.

No you are the one who constantly talks about "Sunday" instead of calling it the first day of the week and the Lord's Day.

So your Sabbatarianism should be shown to connect with the day of Saturn, if you are going to use the names of the days of the week to club Sunday worship. Just like the Seventh Day Adventists, who call it taking the Mark of the Beast! What utter rubbish.

As to the Sabbath, it was given to Israel, not to the Church, so you are already in violation of New Testament church principles. You are the one who knows nothing about what the New Testament teaches about holy days, new moons, sabbaths, feasts, and festivals from the Old Covenant. THEY ARE ALL NULL AND VOID for Christians.

 

[beta]

Exactly. But these stupid rants against Sunday should be countered with equal rants against Saturday. All the days of the week are connected to pagan gods and goddesses, but these Sabbatarians make an issue about the day of the sun and forget that their day is the day of Saturn!

It is not the 'names of the days that matter but what we do on them that GOD requires. When did He ever hallow and sanctify sunday ? and which day does He require us to keep holy ? it's really just a simple matter of obedience/submission to God......out of LOVE ! No Command necessary !

 

[shrume]

No you are the one who constantly talks about "Sunday" instead of calling it the first day of the week and the Lord's Day.

So your Sabbatarianism should be shown to connect with the day of Saturn, if you are going to use the names of the days of the week to club Sunday worship. Just like the Seventh Day Adventists, who call it taking the Mark of the Beast! What utter rubbish.

As to the Sabbath, it was given to Israel, not to the Church, so you are already in violation of New Testament church principles. You are the one who knows nothing about what the New Testament teaches about holy days, new moons, sabbaths, feasts, and festivals from the Old Covenant. THEY ARE ALL NULL AND VOID for Christians.

The first day of the week is never called the Lord's Day. That's simply church tradition, based on an improper understanding of Rev 1:10.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The first day of the week is never called the Lord's Day. That's simply church tradition, based on an improper understanding of Rev 1:10.

Don't try to twist Scripture in order to promote Sabbatarianism.

It is not church tradition but Bible truth. John called the first day of the week -- the Christian day of worship -- the Lord's Day by divine inspiration. He did not conjure it up on his own, and it has nothing to do with the Day of the LORD (a period of wrath).

MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY

The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord’s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord’s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice.

JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY

Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day
Not on the Jewish sabbath, which was now abolished, nor was that ever called the Lord's day, and had John meant that, he would have said on the sabbath day; much less the Jewish passover, but the first day of the week is designed; so the Ethiopic version renders it "on the first day"; and is so called just as the ordinance of the supper is called the Lord's supper, being instituted by the Lord, and the Lord's table, ( 1 Corinthians 10:21 ) ( 11:20 ) , and that because it was the day in which our Lord rose from the dead, ( Mark 16:9 ) ; and in which he appeared at different times to his disciples, ( John 20:19 John 20:26 ) , and which the primitive churches set apart for his worship and service, and on which they met together to hear the word, and attend on ordinances, ( Acts 20:7 ) ( 1 Corinthians 16:1 );

And Justin Martyr tells us, who lived within about fifty years after this time, that on the day called (th tou) (hliou hmera) , "Sunday", (by the Greeks,) the Christians met together in one place, and read the Scriptures, and prayed together, and administered the ordinance of the supper; and this, he adds, was the first day in which God created the World, and our Saviour Jesus Christ rose from the dead; yea, Barnabas , the companion of the Apostle Paul, calls this day the eighth day, in distinction from the seventh day sabbath of the Jews, and which he says is the beginning of another world; and therefore we keep the eighth day, adds he, joyfully, in which Jesus rose from the dead, and being manifested, ascended unto heaven: and this day was known by the ancients by the name of "the Lord's day"; as by Ignatius , Irenaeus , Tertullian , Origen , and others; for it must be some day that was known by this name, otherwise it is mentioned to no purpose, because it would not be distinctive from others; for which reason it cannot merely design the day in which John saw this vision, because the Lord appeared on it to him, for this would not distinguish it from any other day. Some have conjectured that this was not the weekly Lord's day observed by the Christians, but the anniversary of Christ's resurrection; and so the Ethiopians still call Easter "Schambatah Crostos", the sabbath of Christ: to understand it of the former is best.

JAMIESON, FAUSSET, & BROWN COMMENTARY

on the Lord's day--Though forcibly detained from Church communion with the brethren in the sanctuary on the Lord's day, the weekly commemoration of the resurrection, John was holding spiritual communion with them. This is the earliest mention of the term, "the Lord's day." But the consecration of the day to worship, almsgiving, and the Lord's Supper, is implied in Acts 20:7 ,1 Corinthians 16:2 ; compare John 20:19-26 . The name corresponds to "the Lord's Supper,"1 Corinthians 11:20 . IGNATIUS seems to allude to "the Lord's day" [Epistle to the Magnesians, 9], and IRENÆUS [Quæst ad Orthod., 115] (in JUSTIN MARTYR). JUSTIN MARTYR [Apology, 2.98], &c., "On Sunday we all hold our joint meeting; for the first day is that on which God, having removed darkness and chaos, made the world, and Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead. On the day before Saturday they crucified Him; and on the day after Saturday, which is Sunday, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught these things." To the Lord's day PLINY doubtless refers [Epistles, Book X., p. 97], "The Christians on a fixed day before dawn meet and sing a hymn to Christ as God," &c. TERTULLIAN [The Chaplet, 3], "On the Lord's day we deem it wrong to fast." MELITO, bishop of Sardis (second century), wrote a book on the Lord's day[EUSEBIUS 4.26]. Also, DIONYSIUS OF CORINTH, in EUSEBIUS [Ecclesiastical History, 4.23,8]. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA [Miscellanies, 5. and 7.12]; ORIGEN [Against Celsus, 8. 22]. The theory that the day of Christ's second coming is meant, is untenable. "The day of the Lord" is different in the Greek from "the Lord's (an adjective) day," which latter in the ancient Church always designates our Sunday...

 

[beta]

No you are the one who constantly talks about "Sunday" instead of calling it the first day of the week and the Lord's Day.

So your Sabbatarianism should be shown to connect with the day of Saturn, if you are going to use the names of the days of the week to club Sunday worship. Just like the Seventh Day Adventists, who call it taking the Mark of the Beast! What utter rubbish.

As to the Sabbath, it was given to Israel, not to the Church, so you are already in violation of New Testament church principles. You are the one who knows nothing about what the New Testament teaches about holy days, new moons, sabbaths, feasts, and festivals from the Old Covenant. THEY ARE ALL NULL AND VOID for Christians.

I am quite happy to call sunday 'the first day of the week....but it is still a 'work-day like any of the other 5. There is only one 7th day holy and sanctified ! GOD - the God of Israel and God of the Bible has never established any other system for christians or anyone else....it is the people who have violated the Will of God and broken HIS Commandments....are in sin 1Joh 3v4 - and will not enter His Kingdom....Yashua said so ! Mat 7v21.

 

[shrume]

Don't try to twist Scripture in order to promote Sabbatarianism.

I am not twisting scripture, nor am I promoting Sabbatarianism.

It is not church tradition but Bible truth. John called the first day of the week -- the Christian day of worship -- the Lord's Day by divine inspiration.

Where? Not in Rev 1:10...

He did not conjure it up on his own, and it has nothing to do with the Day of the LORD (a period of wrath).

That is precisely what Rev 1:10 is referring to. That is the topic of the book of Revelation.

MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY

The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord’s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord’s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice.

JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY

Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day
Not on the Jewish sabbath, which was now abolished, nor was that ever called the Lord's day, and had John meant that, he would have said on the sabbath day; much less the Jewish passover, but the first day of the week is designed; so the Ethiopic version renders it "on the first day"; and is so called just as the ordinance of the supper is called the Lord's supper, being instituted by the Lord, and the Lord's table, ( 1 Corinthians 10:21 ) ( 11:20 ) , and that because it was the day in which our Lord rose from the dead, ( Mark 16:9 ) ; and in which he appeared at different times to his disciples, ( John 20:19 John 20:26 ) , and which the primitive churches set apart for his worship and service, and on which they met together to hear the word, and attend on ordinances, ( Acts 20:7 ) ( 1 Corinthians 16:1 );

And Justin Martyr tells us, who lived within about fifty years after this time, that on the day called (th tou) (hliou hmera) , "Sunday", (by the Greeks,) the Christians met together in one place, and read the Scriptures, and prayed together, and administered the ordinance of the supper; and this, he adds, was the first day in which God created the World, and our Saviour Jesus Christ rose from the dead; yea, Barnabas , the companion of the Apostle Paul, calls this day the eighth day, in distinction from the seventh day sabbath of the Jews, and which he says is the beginning of another world; and therefore we keep the eighth day, adds he, joyfully, in which Jesus rose from the dead, and being manifested, ascended unto heaven: and this day was known by the ancients by the name of "the Lord's day"; as by Ignatius , Irenaeus , Tertullian , Origen , and others; for it must be some day that was known by this name, otherwise it is mentioned to no purpose, because it would not be distinctive from others; for which reason it cannot merely design the day in which John saw this vision, because the Lord appeared on it to him, for this would not distinguish it from any other day. Some have conjectured that this was not the weekly Lord's day observed by the Christians, but the anniversary of Christ's resurrection; and so the Ethiopians still call Easter "Schambatah Crostos", the sabbath of Christ: to understand it of the former is best.

JAMIESON, FAUSSET, & BROWN COMMENTARY

on the Lord's day--Though forcibly detained from Church communion with the brethren in the sanctuary on the Lord's day, the weekly commemoration of the resurrection, John was holding spiritual communion with them. This is the earliest mention of the term, "the Lord's day." But the consecration of the day to worship, almsgiving, and the Lord's Supper, is implied in Acts 20:7 ,1 Corinthians 16:2 ; compare John 20:19-26 . The name corresponds to "the Lord's Supper,"1 Corinthians 11:20 . IGNATIUS seems to allude to "the Lord's day" [Epistle to the Magnesians, 9], and IRENÆUS [Quæst ad Orthod., 115] (in JUSTIN MARTYR). JUSTIN MARTYR [Apology, 2.98], &c., "On Sunday we all hold our joint meeting; for the first day is that on which God, having removed darkness and chaos, made the world, and Jesus Christ our Saviour rose from the dead. On the day before Saturday they crucified Him; and on the day after Saturday, which is Sunday, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught these things." To the Lord's day PLINY doubtless refers [Epistles, Book X., p. 97], "The Christians on a fixed day before dawn meet and sing a hymn to Christ as God," &c. TERTULLIAN [The Chaplet, 3], "On the Lord's day we deem it wrong to fast." MELITO, bishop of Sardis (second century), wrote a book on the Lord's day[EUSEBIUS 4.26]. Also, DIONYSIUS OF CORINTH, in EUSEBIUS [Ecclesiastical History, 4.23,8]. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA [Miscellanies, 5. and 7.12]; ORIGEN [Against Celsus, 8. 22]. The theory that the day of Christ's second coming is meant, is untenable. "The day of the Lord" is different in the Greek from "the Lord's (an adjective) day," which latter in the ancient Church always designates our Sunday...

Commentaries are people's opinions. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're not.

 

[tourist]

It is not the 'names of the days that matter but what we do on them that GOD requires. When did He ever hallow and sanctify sunday ? and which day does He require us to keep holy ? it's really just a simple matter of obedience/submission to God......out of LOVE ! No Command necessary !

I wouldn't even bother to debate with this member who just makes stuff up and calls it scripture.

 

[Noblemen]

Belief and trust is a work. To have faith is to exercise trust in what you believe. Therefore Faith is a work.

That is to stretch the gospel to have no effect, like people used to cook on Saturday so no work on Sunday. Sure that was their understanding but still doesn't make it right. To call faith and belief a work is ridiculous. We are saved by a God given measure of faith, wow you guys are endless with twists on scripture. Read it don't try to interpret it, leave that to the HolySpirit there is enough nonsense already with the world watching, unbelievable.

 

[lightbearer]

That is to stretch the gospel to have no effect, like people used to cook on Saturday so no work on Sunday. Sure that was their understanding but still doesn't make it right. To call faith and belief a work is ridiculous. We are saved by a God given measure of faith, wow you guys are endless with twists on scripture. Read it don't try to interpret it, leave that to the HolySpirit their is enough nonsense already with the world watching, unbelievable.

Belief and trust is a work. To have faith is to exercise trust in what you believe. Faith without works is dead being alone.

What is faith?

 

[mailmandan]

We have nothing to offer; including faith.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word; GOD'S commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law in our hearts and mouths and minds) is the end of the law (written with ink and tables of stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth. We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ. Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.

(Eph 2:8-9;Gal 2:20; Rom 10:6-8, 4; Deut 30:10-14; 2Co 3:3-5)

You "added" your own commentary to Romans 10:6-8.

Romans 10:5 - For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 BUT the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?" (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."

*Nothing there about salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." *Also see (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; Galatians 2:16; 3:10-14).

 

[lightbearer]

*Nothing there about salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." ).

It is The word; the law; the commandments; Christ in our hearts; minds, and mouths which is the end of the Law ( written with ink and tables of stone for righteousness for all that believe. A new ministration! Not on tables of stone but on the fleshly tables of the heart. A new creature; a new and living way into the holiest of all through the veil; that is to say His flesh; the body of Christ. Not that our sufficiency is of ourselves but our sufficiency is of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both to will an d do HIS good pleasure. For we are dead nevertheless we live Yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the life we now live we live by the FAITH of the Son of GOD. Christ in us the hope of glory.