The Five Baptisms of the New Testament

GWH · 2025-05-17T06:07:31-0400

1. "You know I can’t agree with salvation by Holy Spirit baptism.":
I think you choose not to agree with the TOP regarding the role of the HS in salvation per 1Cor. 12:13, Rom. 8:9-17, etc.

2. "And those 3000 Jews on the day of Pentecost were from “all nations under heaven, verse 5. So, I don’t think they were baptized into a local congregation. Jesus said He added them to His church ( universal).":
Church may refer both to Christ's universal body and to a local body of believers.

3. "I’ve already explained why the baptism in verse 38 could not have been Holy Spirit baptism and since the text does not indicate that anyone was baptized with the Holy Spirit but the apostles who spoke in tongues, I really can’t understand how you think 3000 Jews were baptized with the Holy Spirit. That is a stretch and has no foundation in this passage. We may have to agree to disagree.":
And I have opined that it is a problematic hermeneutic to give precedence to historical rather than to didactic passages in the NT text when seeking to understand normative doctrine. Regarding the converts in Acts 2:41-44, it says they were baptized and then were together.

Agreed? Or still too soon?

Beckworth · 2025-05-17T06:13:33-0400

PaulThomson said:

Was baptism in the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament proof of salvation? Saul who was trying to murder Devid was baptised in the Holy Spirit and prophesied among the prophets.

1 Sam. 19:1 And Saul spake to Jonathan his son, and to all his servants, that they should kill David...

9 And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

10 And Saul sought to smite David even to the wall with the javelin: but he slipped away out of Saul's presence, and he smote the javelin into the wall: and David fled, and escaped that night.

11 Saul also sent messengers unto David's house, to watch him, and to slay him in the morning: and Michal David's wife told him, saying, If thou save not thy life to night, to morrow thou shalt be slain...

24 And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?

Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a sign that God is with and Lord over the one baptised with the Spirit, not proof of salvation. There were unsaved messiahs (anointed ones) in the OT.

Good point! I had not thought of Saul.

homwardbound · 2025-05-17T06:47:09-0400

PaulThomson said:

I do not see anywhere, anyone got Baptized in the Holy Spirit and lived in anyone, in the first testament. I see the Holy Spirit visited and people spoke of the Messiah and I see the failures of everyone, including David with Bathsheba, and Moses, and Noah and Adam the first. Even Peter also.
Holy Spirit never lived in anyone until Jesus the righteous one in the flesh, the only one, my Messiah, who first took away sin from Daddy's sight for us to learn new from mistakes we all make and have made. That Father gives truth in God Father's spirit and Truth for us (John 4:23-24) to live by and hear Father speak to us each personally in love and mercy to all, even rebukes if needed and doing that in God's Spirit being new in love and mercy too without accusing or excusing anyone, including the self Phil 3:1-20

However, in the Old, first Testament, Father (The Holy Spirit) lived in no one. Visited, not lived in, not until after Jesus took away sin first (Acts 1, John 1:29, John 19:30). Then as risen hung out with the disciples to explain everything to them. Then said wait until Father came in the Holy Spirit to lead them, live in and through them if they remain willing then it will happen.
And Pentecost and the House of Gentiles happened, God has come to earth to live in each person and through them leading them new, in love and mercy to all. That does not mean we excuse all, I see to call right right, and wrong wrong and not get involved unless Called and see to stay away from flesh fights over anything, still learning new in process too, thank you
God just loves us all y'all truth beyond measure to me at least, I cannot explain it, I can only say, go to God Father and tell God in your own closet, with the door shut and hear truth over error and get installed the new life offered you each too, thank you

mailmandan · 2025-05-17T07:22:01-0400

There is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks.

So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

GWH · 2025-05-17T08:56:18-0400

mailmandan said:

There is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks.

So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

Well, at least there was a different revelation of the HS in the OT dispensation,
although God may have indwelt pre-Christian believers without them realizing it (2Pet. 1:21),
because they were saved on the basis of believing a proto-gospel (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8)
rather than because of faith in the name of Jesus as Lord/Messiah/God the Son.

PaulThomson · 2025-05-17T09:12:54-0400

homwardbound said:

Why do you identify baptism with the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit coming to abide permanently inside a person? Is there any scripture that supports that? Jesus had the Holy Spirit indwelling from conception, but was baptised with the Holy Spirit before he went forth doing good and healing those oppressed of the devil.

It seems to me that Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to indwell His disciples when they first believed He had risen from the dead on resurrection Sunday.

Jhn 20:19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled,[fn] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
Jhn 20:20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
hn 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
Jhn 20:22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Jhn 20:23 “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Luk 24:49 “Behold, I am sending the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem[fn] until you are endued with power from on high.”

Luke and John record Jesus imparting the Holy Spirit to His disciples on resurrection Sunday. Luke records Jesus promising power soon in the future, and in Acts 2 Luke records that power coming upon them.

Act 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[fn] in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 2:16 “But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
Act 2:18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

Act 2:33 “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.

What was happening here? Was this the Holy Spirit falling on the whole crowd casting out their demons, sweeping them clean of demons, so that they would be free to choose to believe and receive Jesus, or to continue mocking? And was the Holy Spirit filling to overflowing the disciples, empowering them boldly to oppose these lying demons with the Spirit of Truth?

homwardbound · 2025-05-17T10:00:55-0400

GWH said:

I think Faith is a gift to see from God once for us all to get given if one chooses to believe God and stay there between God and them personally, then share in care to all as I see you are doing and I thank God and you for listening too

homwardbound · 2025-05-17T10:26:02-0400

PaulThomson said:

there is water Baptism that John started in public to announce the Messiah is coming.
John said to Jesus he needed to be Baptized by Jesus. Jesus replied he was to do all that is right first, In other words he came to fulfill the Law of Moses Matthew 5:17. He did that and died once for us all to be reconciled, forgiven by Father. That got done once for us all
To now be given as a gift from Father the Holy Spirit, the same Holy Spirit that led Son first that indwelled Jesus from pregnancy in the womb of Mary, Seeing This Holy Spirit, God himself also indwelled John Elizabeth's womb too
Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
God, I see wants us all to choose God over evil, will you between God and you too. I see you have and are trying to be new, Only God can do that through you, as you see God did in Elizabeth having John to announce the coming of Messiah with the Spirit of Elijah!

Does God simply love all? Do you not think God wants you to be new in love to all by his love of Son for all. I mean without going to that cross willingly and having no need for the self to go there to die once for us all and yet did that anyways, WHY?
To save us in his risen Life, to be given us new life to be lead the same way he was by the Holy Spirit, Father himself. Go to your own closet and close the door and ask Father to get revealed truth over errors we all can and have and do get caught up in, being in unredeemed flesh bodies that evil does its best to be in control of and keep people in sin over using scriptures to do that to as many people as will listen to them and not going to Father first
Just love all as you are loved by God first. Find out the depth, width, height and breath to get given you in being dead to the first born you ever again and be taken out of sin and never claim you did it at all, God by Son has done. this for you personally too
Love to all

GWH · 2025-05-17T11:41:43-0400

homwardbound said:

Yes, God does not show favoritism (Rom. 2:11, Gal. 2:6, Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25).

homwardbound · 2025-05-17T14:32:34-0400

GWH said:

As God truthfully knows us all, whether one be in or out it is Father's righteous call as many God sees are in already from Daddy's view has sealed many to see and many are still going through things to see as Father knows best for us all Jeremiah 29:11, that mess up badly, God stands in continual love, I have seen few others that do that too, not many.d I did that and I see back to all that and is the love and Mercy that has sustained me and all others that want to know God in his love and mercy also will see it too, if not yet will one day too, thank you
Som do not stop Col 1:21-23

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The Five Baptisms of the New Testament

GWH

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Beckworth

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homwardbound

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mailmandan

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GWH

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PaulThomson

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homwardbound

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homwardbound

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GWH

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homwardbound

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