The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

Marilyn · Feb 7, 2022

Yes `those who belong to Him` WHEN He comes, and then there are those belonging to Him during the time of Him reigning putting down all rule, authority and power and all enemies under His feet.` (1 Cor. 15: 25)

Jesus comes to the air, then later He comes to the earth. That makes twice.

ewq1938 · Feb 7, 2022

Marilyn said:

No, that's still one return because he does not leave back to heaven when he comes to the clouds of the Earth. He pauses there briefly then continues downward in the same second coming.

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

I know THE WORDS DON'T MATCH WHAT YOU BELIEVE. Sorry. Maybe we could get God to rip that page out for you. (Makes me laugh just as much as the first time I ever read that)n

YOU are correct. HE DID NOT USE THOSE EXACT WORDS. Words close to them but not exact. Words that lead in the exact same direction.

The conversation had 2000 years ago.

HOPEFULLY WE BOTH AGREE CHRIST JESUS IS IN HEAVEN RIGHT NOW and has been this entire time and will only be leaving for the day of vengeance.

I sure hope you will do this for me in the same manner to SEE wherein the problem lies.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.

32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

That generation of VIpERS will never be going to where He is going

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

Christ is going to HEAVEN where HE will be until HIS RETURN for the Day of vengeance/Day of the Lord. What word is used?
Follow. Not wait. Not wait for my return. Not wait till I go and come back but FOLLOW ME. Remember follow the leader? Where the leader went you followed. So the direction is SET.

Christ tells him 'not now' but afterwards. EVEN THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE DIRECTION. THE ONLY WAY FOR THE DIRECTION TO BE CHANGED IS BY THE DOCTRINES OF MEN MAKING VOID THE WORDS OF GOD.

We know why, but Peter did not. So he is going to ask more questions. Peter had been following Jesus for a few years and is by no means ready to part ways and quit following.

37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

AGAIN, GODS WORDS set the direction for us. Question is RIGHT NOW, do you believe them? If you believe what is written, then you have NO CHOICE BUT TO ACCEPT THEM AS TRUTH. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL THE REST OF YOUR BELIEFS FROM THAT POINT ON. It isn't a 'trick' question. It isn't written in a hard to follow manner. There are not figures of speech employed. No idioms. Just straight up conversation.

38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me.

Christ is going to explain where He is going and what it's like

2 In my Father's house are many mansions if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Direction is SET YET AGAIN. GO. And where He is going is where a place is being prepared FOR PETER.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

a. of Christ's invisible return from heaven, i. e. of the power which through the Holy Spirit he will exert in the souls of his disciples: John 14:18, 23;

of his invisible advent in the death of believers, by which be takes them to himself into heaven, John 14:3.

You do realize that IF THIS WERE ANY OTHER SUBJECT IN THE WHOLE WORLD YOU WOULD BE VERY UPSET THAT I was doing this right now, right?

1. We know Christ is going to Heaven and will not be leaving until the day of vengeance.
2. We know this is about 2000 years ago.
3. We know Peter is asking about following
4. We know Christ is preparing a place for him
5. We know Christ wants him to be where He is.
6. We know that Christ will personally receive Peter.
7. We know Christ can't LEAVE heaven so Peter is going to have to be raised up to Christ and so that is where Christ will meet him.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know

Direction SET YET AGAIN. That is 3 witnesses. I agree, there is no time written but the direction is most certainly.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Now Thomas jumps in to let us know THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT PETER, BUT 'WE'/US AND ALL THE SAVED TO FOLLOW AFTER THEM. This is not Metaphorically but actually.

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

God is in heaven AND 'cometh unto' IS A DIRECTION YET AGAIN.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

In the way of the Holy Spirit. But this is SPEAKING OF WHILE YET ALIVE, He will come. Previous is AFTERWARDS. AFTER THIS LIFE. Notice no 'following' or 'be where I am' or cometh but leave you

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Christ Jesus ALIVE IN HEAVEN, Peter ALIVE IN HEAVEN. (if the dead don't rise then Christ isn't risen)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

At the day you receive the Holy Spirit you know. And only peace follows because you also know you will never die

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

"""HOPEFULLY WE BOTH AGREE CHRIST JESUS IS IN HEAVEN RIGHT NOW and has been this entire time and will only be leaving for the day of vengeance."""

He comes in the clouds for the gathering of the bride, the pretrib rapture.
He comes in the clouds DURING THE GT for the Jewish main harvest. Rev14:14
He comes to earth with the saints from heaven in rev 19.

So yes
One coming to earth.
The others in the clouds exactly like the bible teaches.

""""I know THE WORDS DON'T MATCH WHAT YOU BELIEVE. Sorry. Maybe we could get God to rip that page out for you. (Makes me laugh just as much as the first time I ever read that)"""
Pot <> Kettle..... big time

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

ewq1938 said:

....no verses for that.
In fact anyone could refute that.

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

ewq1938 said:

They often post Joh 14:3 but it doesn't say anything about Christ coming back here and taking people anywhere. All it says is he will come back and receive them to himself so they will be where he is...which is Earth.

**********************

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.

"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:

"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us! That's the opposite of the false pre-trib teaching!

Says the one who can not unpack or examine any pretrib rapture verses

Skips them , then goes back to torturing verses to fit your doctrine.

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; AND THEY TOOK them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
TAKEN IN BY THE FLOOD OF SATANS LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS

AS THE DAYS OF NOAH

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

lol

Classic!!! You skipped the verses.

You don't read.
You skip and reframe the meaning.

You just proved it. You totally skipped over the subject.

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; AND THEY TOOK them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
TAKEN IN BY THE FLOOD OF SATANS LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS

AS THE DAYS OF NOAH

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

total non answer to those verses i posted.

Nobody is going to take you seriously.
You omit verses.

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

I am not suggesting, IT IS WRITTEN. PUTTING SNIPPETS FOR ORDER OF EVENTS.

THIS IS WHAT IS RESTRAINING THE END TIME EVENTS FROM COMMENCING

ONCE THIS HAPPENS
Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

THEN THIS TAKES PLACE - THE ANGELS RECEIVE THEIR KINGDOM (as in the days of NOE)
Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

THIS ENDS IT
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

THIS IS CONFIRMATION THAT A DAY WITH THE LORD IS AS A THOUSAND YEARS AND THAT THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE LORDS DAY
Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

That is reframing verses.

He asked you if the ac is revealed at the second coming on horses

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

then shall that Wicked be revealed,

THE WICKED IS REVEALED, THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION IS REVEALED

BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD.

THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD REVEALS WHO IS CLAIMING TO BE GOD AND THAT IS THE SON OF PERDITION. THE WHOLE WORLD IS BEING DECEIVED, ONCE EXPOSED BY THE BRIGHTNESS THE DECEPTION ENDS. ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD BECOME CHRISTS THE SECOND SATAN IS REVEALED AS BEING A FAKE, A LIAR.

Picture yourself waking up and finding yourself in a pitch black room. There is someone there telling you what the room looks like. As he describes all the details of the room you can in your mind imagine exactly what it will look like when the light comes on. The light comes on and what is revealed is the exact opposite of what you were told. It's dreadful.

Could anyone ever make you believe it again? Are there any words that could be said to make you believe it was a beautiful room? NO. Once the light has shown you the truth, no lie can be told.

The BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST coming to the earth can not be hid. Remember Moses, he had to wear a veil over his face because he shined so bright the people couldn't look at him. That was from being in THE PRESENCE of the Lord on the Mount. What is GOD would have not 'HID' himself? What if He would have been up in the sky? That is where the LORD will be. THESE ARE SOME of the facts THE WORDS DON'T DEAL WITH but for TRUTH to be told the words have to fit the facts.

Once that light shines on this earth there is NO TURNING BACK to make anyone ever believe anything else. Satan may have at one time been 'the morning star' but HE WAS CAST DOWN and there is no more light in him. These are the obstacles that must be over come for THE THEORY. You are going to have to overcome SUPERNATURAL activities with earthly words. It can't be done.

Satan will act wickedly. Satan will deceive. Satan will claim to be God. Satan will succeed UNTIL THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS.

THE LIGHT EXPOSES EVERYTHING. EVERY TRUTH AND EVERY LIE IS EXPOSED BY THE LIGHT. CHRIST IS THAT LIGHT. WHEN THAT LIGHT IS SEEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW.

How does pre trib overcome that? It can try and in earthly minds it will succeed. BUT in the spiritual realm it can not.

Christ CAN NOT come to the earth and the world not see or know. PERIOD. THAT is the SUPERNATURAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

You MUST stop being about the 'EARTHLY WORDS' and BE ABOUT THE REALITY of the SPIRITUAL WORLD.

So you are probably going to say it is before Satan and so nothing will be exposed. BUT you still can't change the BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST. YOU CAN'T UNDO THE LIGHT. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE LIGHT NOT SHINE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE WORLD FORGET THE LIGHT. THE LIGHT CAN'T COME TO THE WORLD AND NOT EXPOSE ALL THE 'MYSTERY OF INIQUITY' THAT IS ALREADY WORKING.

Yes, you can CONVINCE others that is what the 'words' say, but those words will never tell the TRUTH of the situation.

AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

When that happens
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, BROUGHT OUT OF HIDING, SHOWN TO BE WHO HE REALLY IS WHEN LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS. SATAN CAN REMAIN HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS BUT ONCE THE LIGHT SHINES THERE IS NO DARKNESS LEFT TO HIDE IN. HE CAN ONLY BE WHO HE IS and he is deception. And those who spread his lies are doing his work.

THIS VERSE IS SPEAKING TO 'THE ENDING' OF SATANS '7' YEARS RULE (not really 7 years though)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE LORD, CHRIST IS THE LORD. That day DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, IT WAS AND STILL IS yet FUTURE.

THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF SATANS TRIB (the world having been deceived) AND BEFORE GODS WRATH
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

WHAT SATAN IS DOING RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST SHOWS UP, (TWO WITNESSES ABOUT TO RISE UP, BEEN DEAD 3 1/2 DAYS)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

NOW WE KNOW WHAT IS HOLDING UP THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM - WAR IN HEAVEN -SATAN TRIB
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

PEOPLE ALREADY BEING LED ASTRAY - will be up until he is kicked out of heaven by Michael
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Again, Paul is going to say the exact same thing but add some details
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

again PAUL MAKING SURE THE ORDER IS KNOWN. NOT TILL AFTER SATAN WILL ANYONE EVER SEE CHRIST
9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

THE 2ND ADVENT/THE DAY OF VENGEANCE/THE DAY OF THE LORD/THE MILLENNIUM/WE ARE REIGN AND RULE FOR THE NEXT 1000 YEARS

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

FROM KINGS AND CAPTAINS ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FREE AND THE BOND GREAT AND SMALL dead AS THE VULTURES EAT THEIR DEAD FLESH.

NEXT THE REMNANT ARE SLAIN.

ALL FLESH DEAD. NO MORE FLESH FROM KINGS ON DOWN THROUGH THE SMALLEST. DEAD. BIRDS FEEDING ON THE FLESH AND IF THERE WERE A FEW THAT DEATH DIDN'T HIT THEN THE REMNANT THAT WERE LEFT WERE SLAIN.

NO MORE FLESH MEN OR WOMEN UPON THE EARTH LEFT ALIVE.

EXCEPT FOR THE ALIVE AND REMAINING WHO 'ARE CHANGED'

NOT BECAUSE THEY rise up BUT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND THEN THEY ARE CHANGED INTO THEIR SPIRITUAL BODIES. HOW CAN WE BE POSITIVE? 1000% SURE. NOT HAVE A DOUBT IN THE WORLD. BET THE FARM ON IT? BECAUSE THEY ARE EVER WITH THE LORD. AND THE LORD IS ETERNAL. SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE ALSO.

ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL FLESH IS GONE. WE HAVE NOW BECOME LIKE THE ANGELS WHO NEITHER TAKE OR GIVE IN MARRIAGE. NO KIDS NO MARRIAGE. NO FLESH. ALL EARTHEN VESSELS GONE.

That is after the mil when the last battle ( you omitted) is fought.

THEN the wicked are slain.

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

"""HOPEFULLY WE BOTH AGREE CHRIST JESUS IS IN HEAVEN RIGHT NOW and has been this entire time and will only be leaving for the day of vengeance."""

He comes in the clouds for the gathering of the bride, the pretrib rapture.
He comes in the clouds DURING THE GT for the Jewish main harvest. Rev14:14
He comes to earth with the saints from heaven in rev 19.

So yes
One coming to earth.
The others in the clouds exactly like the bible teaches.

""""I know THE WORDS DON'T MATCH WHAT YOU BELIEVE. Sorry. Maybe we could get God to rip that page out for you. (Makes me laugh just as much as the first time I ever read that)"""
Pot <> Kettle..... big time

Really, that is how you see the WORKINGS of God? THAT is GODS PLAN? What are you going to do with HIS BRIGHTNESS?

FreeGrace2 · Feb 7, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Bottom line: 1 Cor 15:23 shows that "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected "when He comes".

What does this verse say to you?

Marilyn said:

So then, you limit the phrase as only referring to living believers when the Second Advent occurs? I'm not clear. All the believers already in heaven are also 'eagerly waiting for Him' to give them glorified bodies as well. If you are leaving them out of the equation, why? If you do include them, then you are agreeing with me that the phrase "those who belong to Him" refer to all believers throughout the ages. Right?

I don't what you point is in the first sentence. The second sentence simply refers to the Millennial reign. iow, at the end of the Millennial reign, per Rev 20, Satan is released to deceive the nations again, and then Jesus destroys them all at once, with Satan being cast into the LoF, to join the beast and FP who were cast in there at the end of the battle of Armageddon.

So v.25 has no bearing on who the ones referred to in the phrase "those who belong to Him" are.

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

then shall that Wicked be revealed,

THE WICKED IS REVEALED, THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION IS REVEALED

BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD.

THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD REVEALS WHO IS CLAIMING TO BE GOD AND THAT IS THE SON OF PERDITION. THE WHOLE WORLD IS BEING DECEIVED, ONCE EXPOSED BY THE BRIGHTNESS THE DECEPTION ENDS. ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD BECOME CHRISTS THE SECOND SATAN IS REVEALED AS BEING A FAKE, A LIAR.

Picture yourself waking up and finding yourself in a pitch black room. There is someone there telling you what the room looks like. As he describes all the details of the room you can in your mind imagine exactly what it will look like when the light comes on. The light comes on and what is revealed is the exact opposite of what you were told. It's dreadful.

Could anyone ever make you believe it again? Are there any words that could be said to make you believe it was a beautiful room? NO. Once the light has shown you the truth, no lie can be told.

The BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST coming to the earth can not be hid. Remember Moses, he had to wear a veil over his face because he shined so bright the people couldn't look at him. That was from being in THE PRESENCE of the Lord on the Mount. What is GOD would have not 'HID' himself? What if He would have been up in the sky? That is where the LORD will be. THESE ARE SOME of the facts THE WORDS DON'T DEAL WITH but for TRUTH to be told the words have to fit the facts.

Once that light shines on this earth there is NO TURNING BACK to make anyone ever believe anything else. Satan may have at one time been 'the morning star' but HE WAS CAST DOWN and there is no more light in him. These are the obstacles that must be over come for THE THEORY. You are going to have to overcome SUPERNATURAL activities with earthly words. It can't be done.

Satan will act wickedly. Satan will deceive. Satan will claim to be God. Satan will succeed UNTIL THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS.

THE LIGHT EXPOSES EVERYTHING. EVERY TRUTH AND EVERY LIE IS EXPOSED BY THE LIGHT. CHRIST IS THAT LIGHT. WHEN THAT LIGHT IS SEEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW.

How does pre trib overcome that? It can try and in earthly minds it will succeed. BUT in the spiritual realm it can not.

Christ CAN NOT come to the earth and the world not see or know. PERIOD. THAT is the SUPERNATURAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

You MUST stop being about the 'EARTHLY WORDS' and BE ABOUT THE REALITY of the SPIRITUAL WORLD.

So you are probably going to say it is before Satan and so nothing will be exposed. BUT you still can't change the BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST. YOU CAN'T UNDO THE LIGHT. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE LIGHT NOT SHINE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE WORLD FORGET THE LIGHT. THE LIGHT CAN'T COME TO THE WORLD AND NOT EXPOSE ALL THE 'MYSTERY OF INIQUITY' THAT IS ALREADY WORKING.

Yes, you can CONVINCE others that is what the 'words' say, but those words will never tell the TRUTH of the situation.

AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

When that happens
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, BROUGHT OUT OF HIDING, SHOWN TO BE WHO HE REALLY IS WHEN LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS. SATAN CAN REMAIN HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS BUT ONCE THE LIGHT SHINES THERE IS NO DARKNESS LEFT TO HIDE IN. HE CAN ONLY BE WHO HE IS and he is deception. And those who spread his lies are doing his work.

THIS VERSE IS SPEAKING TO 'THE ENDING' OF SATANS '7' YEARS RULE (not really 7 years though)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE LORD, CHRIST IS THE LORD. That day DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, IT WAS AND STILL IS yet FUTURE.

THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF SATANS TRIB (the world having been deceived) AND BEFORE GODS WRATH
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

WHAT SATAN IS DOING RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST SHOWS UP, (TWO WITNESSES ABOUT TO RISE UP, BEEN DEAD 3 1/2 DAYS)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

NOW WE KNOW WHAT IS HOLDING UP THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM - WAR IN HEAVEN -SATAN TRIB
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

PEOPLE ALREADY BEING LED ASTRAY - will be up until he is kicked out of heaven by Michael
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Again, Paul is going to say the exact same thing but add some details
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

again PAUL MAKING SURE THE ORDER IS KNOWN. NOT TILL AFTER SATAN WILL ANYONE EVER SEE CHRIST
9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Nope.
He is REVEALED pretrib.

He is SEATED AND RULING at the second coming on horses.

Look up "revealed".

It is the opposite of hidden.

So you are MAKING verses say the ac is hidden and nobody knows it.
Then revealed at the second coming.

Ridiculous

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

Could it get any more boring....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

HOW ABOUT TRYING TO TEACH just ONE THING

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

what will you do with the verses you omit?

His brightness is safe with me.
I embrace it and all those verses you " tie in".

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

I called you out.
Specifically on what you omit.

By your dodge i can see you are off script, off balance and can not answer.

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Are you saying that SATAN IS COMING AND CLAIMING TO BE SATAN?

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

HOW IS THAT DECEPTION? WHO IS BEING DECEIVED?

Absolutely · Feb 7, 2022

kleronomos said:

then shall that Wicked be revealed,

THE WICKED IS REVEALED, THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION IS REVEALED

BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD.

THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD REVEALS WHO IS CLAIMING TO BE GOD AND THAT IS THE SON OF PERDITION. THE WHOLE WORLD IS BEING DECEIVED, ONCE EXPOSED BY THE BRIGHTNESS THE DECEPTION ENDS. ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD BECOME CHRISTS THE SECOND SATAN IS REVEALED AS BEING A FAKE, A LIAR.

Picture yourself waking up and finding yourself in a pitch black room. There is someone there telling you what the room looks like. As he describes all the details of the room you can in your mind imagine exactly what it will look like when the light comes on. The light comes on and what is revealed is the exact opposite of what you were told. It's dreadful.

Could anyone ever make you believe it again? Are there any words that could be said to make you believe it was a beautiful room? NO. Once the light has shown you the truth, no lie can be told.

The BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST coming to the earth can not be hid. Remember Moses, he had to wear a veil over his face because he shined so bright the people couldn't look at him. That was from being in THE PRESENCE of the Lord on the Mount. What is GOD would have not 'HID' himself? What if He would have been up in the sky? That is where the LORD will be. THESE ARE SOME of the facts THE WORDS DON'T DEAL WITH but for TRUTH to be told the words have to fit the facts.

Once that light shines on this earth there is NO TURNING BACK to make anyone ever believe anything else. Satan may have at one time been 'the morning star' but HE WAS CAST DOWN and there is no more light in him. These are the obstacles that must be over come for THE THEORY. You are going to have to overcome SUPERNATURAL activities with earthly words. It can't be done.

Satan will act wickedly. Satan will deceive. Satan will claim to be God. Satan will succeed UNTIL THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS.

THE LIGHT EXPOSES EVERYTHING. EVERY TRUTH AND EVERY LIE IS EXPOSED BY THE LIGHT. CHRIST IS THAT LIGHT. WHEN THAT LIGHT IS SEEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW.

How does pre trib overcome that? It can try and in earthly minds it will succeed. BUT in the spiritual realm it can not.

Christ CAN NOT come to the earth and the world not see or know. PERIOD. THAT is the SUPERNATURAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

You MUST stop being about the 'EARTHLY WORDS' and BE ABOUT THE REALITY of the SPIRITUAL WORLD.

So you are probably going to say it is before Satan and so nothing will be exposed. BUT you still can't change the BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST. YOU CAN'T UNDO THE LIGHT. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE LIGHT NOT SHINE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE WORLD FORGET THE LIGHT. THE LIGHT CAN'T COME TO THE WORLD AND NOT EXPOSE ALL THE 'MYSTERY OF INIQUITY' THAT IS ALREADY WORKING.

Yes, you can CONVINCE others that is what the 'words' say, but those words will never tell the TRUTH of the situation.

AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

When that happens
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, BROUGHT OUT OF HIDING, SHOWN TO BE WHO HE REALLY IS WHEN LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS. SATAN CAN REMAIN HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS BUT ONCE THE LIGHT SHINES THERE IS NO DARKNESS LEFT TO HIDE IN. HE CAN ONLY BE WHO HE IS and he is deception. And those who spread his lies are doing his work.

THIS VERSE IS SPEAKING TO 'THE ENDING' OF SATANS '7' YEARS RULE (not really 7 years though)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE LORD, CHRIST IS THE LORD. That day DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, IT WAS AND STILL IS yet FUTURE.

THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF SATANS TRIB (the world having been deceived) AND BEFORE GODS WRATH
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

WHAT SATAN IS DOING RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST SHOWS UP, (TWO WITNESSES ABOUT TO RISE UP, BEEN DEAD 3 1/2 DAYS)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

NOW WE KNOW WHAT IS HOLDING UP THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM - WAR IN HEAVEN -SATAN TRIB
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

PEOPLE ALREADY BEING LED ASTRAY - will be up until he is kicked out of heaven by Michael
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Again, Paul is going to say the exact same thing but add some details
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING

again PAUL MAKING SURE THE ORDER IS KNOWN. NOT TILL AFTER SATAN WILL ANYONE EVER SEE CHRIST
9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

That is the battle of armageddon.
Everyone believes it

kleronomos · Feb 7, 2022

Absolutely said:

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